Author Topic: Satona topics merged together (PHOTO'S) (Read 19121 times)

RC Storick · « **on:** February 12, 2006, 04:56:06 PM »

Well I have spent a week working on this board and I need to get back to work. I have purchased all the components necessary to build a Randy Smith Satona.
This airplane is out of my normal building techniques because it's a foamy!

This airplane will be brand new from the ground up. New everything. I plan to use my new PA.40 (not the ultra)

I have finally got off my duff and started the Satona, at least I got the parts in one place. I will post photo's as I go. I think I can build this ready to fly in two weeks. Seeing as I don't have to cut and build a wing. I'll keep you posted as I go. The construction will be a series on the tips section. I am going to build as per plans no deviations. Something thats new for me.

Well I could not help myself. Here are some pics of the crutch I am building.

EDIT: I have taken a short break due to work and other problems. So the Satona has sit for a while but here is a pic of where its at now.

RC Storick · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2006, 06:21:19 PM »

I know you don't think there is much there but if you haven't seen me in action you will see it done in a few (2) weeks I have started cutting wood tonight.
Please register and enjoy the benefits of membership!

Here is 3 more shots of where I am at tonight. By Friday I will have a ready to paint airframe.

So far I have made two changes from the plans. Only in the construction techniques. First is the crutch detail and second instead of a formed top block I will carve it. I have some real good wood for that.

Ironbomb · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2006, 06:54:43 AM »

This will cool Sparky, can you show a pic of what the Satona looks like? I never heard of it before.

2wks is fast, I dont think I can finish my Cardinal (from plans) in two more weeks, and the fues and wing are built. I have watched you build on the other forum, so this will be good here.

happy buliding

Greg

sadams714441 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2006, 02:54:21 PM »

Hi
Where did you purchase all your parts and plans for this aircraft

Steve

RC Storick · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2006, 03:03:52 PM »

Or engine forum moderator's site. Randy Smith at Aero Products. Go to http://www.stunthangar.com/building/Links.htm and look for Aero Products web site, Top left of page.

This web site is much more than this forum check it out. http://www.stunthangar.com

Tonight I worked on the motor crutch. It's the lightest and most complex crutch I have ever built. This was a deviation from the plans. It consists of 11 pieces. About twice as Strong as conventional crutch assembly's. I will post photo's in the morning.

Ironbomb · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2006, 11:06:48 PM »

I thought you said "no deviations"?

(sorry, couldnt help myself

)

peabody · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2006, 07:44:06 AM »

Robert...I have contemplated doing a crutch in that fassion....may set my router up to do so...
I know that Randy has used the "stepped" maple to recess the aluminum pads for years without failure, but it looks to me like a weak kink.....

RC Storick · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2006, 07:55:22 AM »

I think it will be stronger because it has 1/4 balsa in the slot and laminated 1/6 plywood and 3/16 balsa fill between engine bearers topped with a 3/16 crutch. It slot lock firewall and F2 into place. I like this set up but only time will tell. Engine mounts supplied by Bill Sawyer.

RandySmith · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:22:58 AM »

Peabody said "Robert...I have contemplated doing a crutch in that fassion....may set my router up to do so...
I know that Randy has used the "stepped" maple to recess the aluminum pads for years without failure, but it looks to me like a weak kink..... "

Hi Rich
It is not a weak link, these are put together using slow cure epoxy and there has been over 2500 of this exact mount and crutch used in planes I have sold. I am sure that many others have used these too. I know of many ships that have way over 1000 flights with this system.
You can put the metal pads inserted in the mount or on top of the mount if you like, it really doesn't make much difference except that you have to put shims under the tank.
Point is that strong enough is all that counts

Randy

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:58:05 AM »

Several years ago I did a good bit of furniture building. At that time I learned about a mortise and tenon joint and the strength it provided. I adapted that to my motor mounts several years ago and produced slotted bearers. I make these with a router table set up and a 1/4" straight bit set to cut 3/16" deep into the mounts. I leave a 1/16" uncut area next to where the tank mounts and fill between the mounts with 1/16" plywood. This leaves a flat area where the tank sits. The slots are filled with 1/4" balsa with the grain running cross wise to the mounts. I square up the ends of the slots with a 1/4" woodworker's chisel. With the plywood grain running lenghtwise and the balsa glued directly to it the balsa becomes another layer of the plywood. The advantage to the slots over just a filler block between the mounts comes from the additional glue area and the wood itself is taking up some of the stress. The rungs of chairs are inserted into the legs to give them strength. Glue alone would not hold the rungs to the legs. This is the same idea only used in a slot configuration.
I have sold some of these on the Stuka forum and have given some away as samples to promote the idea. The first large number of them was done in 2003 when I included them in my Argus kits

peabody · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2006, 12:30:23 PM »

Bill:
Yup....same general idea that I have, althoough I believe thata 1/16" or 1/8" slot with crossgrain, and the "top" and "bottom" covered with similar thickness material would produce a very strong and stiff structure.....cap the ends so that fuel doesn't leak into it, and BINGO....

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2006, 01:20:39 PM »

I suppose I should have posted these pictures with the others. You can see both top and bottom of the installation. The formers at the front and the rear of the crutch seals the ends where the plywood and the balsa meet. They also provide a bit of stability to the structure. The 1/16" plywood between the mounts forms a flat surface for the tank area. These pictures are from two airplanes.

sadams714441 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2006, 05:08:18 PM »

Crutch looks great, so thats how you do that. Thanks guys

ash · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2006, 11:14:02 PM »

I like the 'melted' tips on the flaps, elevators and rudder. Is that a Curt thing or a Satona thing? Any aerodynamic reason or just because it looks cool?

RC Storick · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2006, 08:29:34 PM »

I haven't got to far the fuse is done. I will have to cram for the airframe to be finished by next Monday.

Side note: The motorcycle I built for the bike build off we won the Harley parts catagory and the horsepower shoot out with 122.3 HP and 113 TQ. I am a happy camper! 15 HP more than the rest of the field.That is the most HP I have ever got out of a 103.

RandySmith · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2006, 09:10:51 PM »

"""I like the 'melted' tips on the flaps, elevators and rudder. Is that a Curt thing or a Satona thing? Any aerodynamic reason or just because it looks cool? ""

Hi Ash

It was designed this way, same as a few other planes I designed back in the 1980s
I have seen this shape tested in a wind tunnel and the Vortices coming off of the tips are very very tiny steams. and more importantly they are not near a large as many others when deflected at hi angles of attack. So these are very good for low drag and keeping the air on the wing longer than some other shape tips

Randy

ash · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2006, 09:26:00 PM »

Thanks Randy, thats what I was hoping you were going to say. They are a little bit like the lip on a pitcher or a Kamm Tail on the back edge of a car, a nucleation point for the vortices. My calm weather machine will get something similar and my windy weather model will get the exact opposite, a big radius like a Diva's tips to make the separation point poorly defined.

Looking good, Sparky. Take a break and dust down that beautiful Viper while you're there!!

RC Storick · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2006, 10:00:27 PM »

Progress has been kinda slow. I got the wig sheeting put together and cut to shape. 1 coat of low shrink dope on the inside. Tomorrow night I will sand the fuzz off with 400 and apply Z-Poxy and glue the skins on.

The fuse is done along with the cowl. I will post some more PHOTO's when there is something of interest.

sadams714441 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2006, 06:45:26 AM »

What do you use when tracing parts to wood ? Do you use tracing paper and ply templates. Or just tracing paper and rubber cement to stick to wood while cutting out ?

RC Storick · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2006, 06:49:32 AM »

Tom Morris sells some plastic velum. You can also make photo copies and Iron them onto the wood. It will transfer the ink.

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2006, 09:38:19 AM »

An addition to this idea is to copy the actual parts by placing them in the copier. Some time past I bought a kit that was missing the ribs. I had planned to save the kit but as it was not complete there was little collector value so I decided to build it. A friend loaned me the ribs from his kit and I placed the ribs still in the balsa on the copier. I set to a dark print and it was able to show the cut lines. When I set it real dark it even showed the wood grain. I found that if I can see the cut lines the copier will print them.

sadams714441 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2006, 10:27:52 AM »

May go to Staples later and copy parts. How about the wing, one side showing is there a good way to reverse the one side view so that you have both halfs ?

RC Storick · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2006, 09:33:09 PM »

Well I am a week behind schedule. The wing and fuse are done. I will finish elevator tonight and get it ready for attachment. Weights are 9.75 for the wing less flaps and 9.5 for the fuse. This model is coming along fine for a foam wing airplane.

It just getting test fit.

sadams714441 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:37:59 PM »

Looks great Robert

Kenneth Colbert · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2006, 07:57:38 PM »

Sure looks good to me.Just wish I could get to see it fly...
Maybe you could post a pic of it flying for some of us.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #25 on:** March 06, 2006, 09:17:23 PM »

Looks real good Sparky!

Bill Little · « **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2006, 11:04:25 AM »

Hi Sparky,

Looks almost as good as Aaron's!

Looking good.

RandySmith · « **Reply #27 on:** March 07, 2006, 11:16:39 AM »

Looking good Robert
Did you put the fiberglass ellipse on yet?

Randy

RC Storick · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2006, 07:51:59 PM »

EDIT: I have taken a short break due to work and other problems. So the Satona has sit for a while but here is a pic of where its at now. If I can coordinate things this will get finished and the on line build will proceed.

peabody · « **Reply #29 on:** April 05, 2006, 08:30:24 PM »

Spark....
Way cool....I'll bet that you will be dazzled at how well it works...

wwwarbird · « **Reply #30 on:** April 07, 2006, 12:30:54 PM »

That pilot keeps looking at me, he must've heard that I'm the guy with the bad karma.
Lookin' good Sparky, can't wait to see it done.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2006, 02:02:38 PM »

W-Bird. I adjusted your karma. What goes around comes around.

Robert,
Can you give some detailed info on - ...." because it's a foamy!"

I am looking for some detail info on foamy wings.

Thanks
Paul

RC Storick · « **Reply #32 on:** April 07, 2006, 04:57:55 PM »

Quote from: RootBeard on April 07, 2006, 02:02:38 PM

W-Bird. I adjusted your karma. What goes around comes around.

Robert,
Can you give some detailed info on - ...." because it's a foamy!"

I am looking for some detail info on foamy wings.

Thanks
Paul

There is nothing wrong with foam wings they just build a little heaver, about 2-4 oz. They are straight and rigid. Make sure you use fiberglass in the center as to help in the center strength department. Do not sand the sheeting so thin as to cause a stress riser. There fast to build and durable.

Bill Little · « **Reply #33 on:** April 16, 2006, 11:14:15 AM »

Good looking frame up.

Where did you pick up the weight?? Nevertheless, Gene's and Derek's planes are in the 58-60 oz. range and fly quite nicely! The airfoil will carry/lift that with no problems.

RC Storick · « **Reply #34 on:** April 16, 2006, 11:18:27 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on April 16, 2006, 11:14:15 AM

Good looking frame up.

Where did you pick up the weight?? Nevertheless, Gene's and Derek's planes are in the 58-60 oz. range and fly quite nicely! The airfoil will carry/lift that with no problems.

I am not sure where it came from. I am just guessing on finished weight. I am going to try to keep it light. I think I will be leaving out my pilot, thats good for a 1/2 oz and some other things. I will not have quite the finish I would have liked.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #35 on:** April 16, 2006, 04:05:37 PM »

Sparky are you really going to leave out the pilot after the last lambasting you got? DOC Holliday

Rob Killick · « **Reply #36 on:** April 16, 2006, 10:00:24 PM »

Pilot , or no pilot ...
You gotta love the looks of that airframe ?
( I also really enjoy the trademark Camels and Dr. P )

Rob Killick

RC Storick · « **Reply #37 on:** April 17, 2006, 07:41:27 PM »

I have so many projects going right now I need to get them done in order. Here is the one day progress of the Satona finish. I have picked up 2.5 oz to this stage. After re weighing all the parts I have figured it will come in around 55 oz. Livable. I know that I have said I would do the on line build but I need a grass plane ready for next season. I guess I was lax last winter and put it off too long.

Oh by the way this is my composite stunt attempt.

See the Nobler wing on the wall? That was built by Bob Tucker a bazillion years ago.

Harleyman · « **Reply #38 on:** April 17, 2006, 09:06:40 PM »

Man, with all that CF it sure will be a stiffy!

No flex there for sure.

RC Storick · « **Reply #39 on:** April 18, 2006, 09:44:23 PM »

Second day of finishing. Its coming along nicely!

Mike Clark · « **Reply #40 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:18:28 PM »

Hi Robert,
Is that car primer that you are using?

Mike Clark

RC Storick · « **Reply #41 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:24:48 PM »

T1 Yes NAPA Cheap primer!

$2.49 per can. Put it on sand it all off. Takes 6 cans average per plane. If your going to use it, you must sand it all back off!

When I get ready to paint it will be light gray all over but you can see through the primer.

RC Storick · « **Reply #42 on:** April 19, 2006, 06:59:30 AM »

T2 Three coats of clear on wood. Apply paper or CF 3 more coats of clear and then straight to primer.

T3 Be sure to sand it ALL off

T4 No more more than 1/2 pint of color

T5 One coat auto Urethane

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #43 on:** April 19, 2006, 09:02:28 AM »

Do you have to wet sand the primer to get it off without loading up the sandpaper?

Steve

RandySmith · « **Reply #44 on:** April 19, 2006, 10:23:16 AM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on April 19, 2006, 09:02:28 AM

Do you have to wet sand the primer to get it off without loading up the sandpaper?

Steve

Hi Steve

The gold 400 grit paper production type you can get from auto color shops works very nice for sanding this and most all primers
you use it dry
Randy

Bill Little · « **Reply #45 on:** April 19, 2006, 05:53:11 PM »

I finally used up a sleeve of the 320 gold paper. Not sure how many sheets that is.

Now I will get a sleeve of 400.

It IS cheaper in the long run to get a whole sleeve of sandpaper when you buy it. That is if you intend to keep on building these models.

Bill Little · « **Reply #46 on:** April 19, 2006, 05:58:13 PM »

Quote from: Harleyman on April 17, 2006, 09:06:40 PM

Man, with all that CF it sure will be a stiffy!
No flex there for sure.

I wish I could afford to cover my whole plane with 2/10ths oz. CF myself! Sparkster has all the dough.

(Just kiddin' Admiral!)

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #47 on:** April 20, 2006, 07:50:14 PM »

How come the canopy isn't installed? More weight saving measures?

Steve

RC Storick · « **Reply #48 on:** April 20, 2006, 08:09:02 PM »

If you really must know.

While I was dying it blue I turned it into a mordern Art Master piece. Boiling watter is too hot for these canopies!

It's been a while sense I have done that but I too make mistakes.

I ordered 4 more.

RC Storick · « **Reply #49 on:** April 28, 2006, 08:32:25 PM »

All I need to do is attach the canopy and I will begin painting. Monday it will be in color.