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Author Topic: Profile Cardinal  (Read 2809 times)

Offline Steve Agrella

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Profile Cardinal
« on: May 08, 2015, 08:49:45 PM »
Been doing some reading on this kit from Brodak, I have a question because I'm a bit confused on conflicting  data.

flaps, I've read that the stock flaps maybe too big, suggestions on how and where to trim them or leave them stock, I've read some folks remove from 3/8-3/4 of an inch off the trailing edge ??

I'm going to use ball links, carbon fiber pushrods and landing gear, any other mod suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Online Brett Buck

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2015, 09:23:11 PM »
Been doing some reading on this kit from Brodak, I have a question because I'm a bit confused on conflicting  data.

flaps, I've read that the stock flaps maybe too big, suggestions on how and where to trim them or leave them stock, I've read some folks remove from 3/8-3/4 of an inch off the trailing edge ??

   I would suggest removing 3/8 off the chord to start with, and if it feels swoopy or sluggish in the corners, take another 1/8" or so off.

   Brett

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2015, 10:14:34 AM »
Before you do any cutting, finish the model, fly it five or six times, be sure to seal the flap and elevators. Then if you find it is not to your liking, do as Brett suggests. I have done this on other models but never felt the need on the Profile Cardinal. You may like the way it flies or not. Only you can tell. Remove chord width by only 1/16th at a time. Over a 12 inch flap that is almost one sq inch of area gone. 12/16=3/4 sq inches. LITTLE twitches at a time.  Remember, one twitch here or there may affect trim else where.  D>K

    I stick to the original recommendation. This isn't speculation, we already did it, resulting in the 2006 Senior National Championship for our flying buddy Paul Ferrell.

    An issue with the "try it and see" approach, just like it was with our young friend Paul, if you don't have a lot of experience flying a very wide range of competitive stunt planes, you don't necessarily know what you need or what problems a particular airplane is causing you. Much to the contrary, if you ask the pilot about how the airplane flies, they almost always say something like "the airplane flies great, I just can't fly good enough to do it justice". After flying hundreds of them, I haven't found a single case where that was true. As far as I can recall, every single time I flew the same plane, it had pretty serious problems that the pilot was completely unaware of, and the airplane was  difficult to fly.

  Ted did this with Paul's kit Cardinal, and I have flown a few kit and ARC Cardinals, and they all had the same problem - essentially impossible to control the corner radius, and very high control loads around neutral. If Ted and I can't control it with enough finesse to be competitive, it's a good bet most other people can't either.  Removing flap area (at the field, as I recall, but getting a bit hazy) fixed this immediately and about a week and a half later, Senior champ (and not uncontested, either).

     I mention 3/8" because that is very conservative, and probably not enough. I think the original was *3/4"* with no intermediate experiments and the flap at the tip was around an inch wide when we finished. Of course, if you think you have gone too far, you can always glue/tape more back on to it (even at the field). How much you want or need is not really a matter of personal preference, I think it as more to do with how well your engine/prop works - more flap for 4-2 break engines (which is when the "giant flap" phenomenon began) and less flap for good engines. The reason is that the older engines cannot maintain the speed in the corner nearly as well. Unfortunately, the extreme drag of the stock system ALSO causes an issue in that case.

     Brett

Offline Steve Agrella

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2015, 02:13:32 PM »
Thanks for the replies

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2015, 04:08:06 PM »
Hi Steve,

If the kit has a 4" Bell Crank then you are good to go, if not, use one.

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Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2015, 04:32:44 PM »
Do what Brett tells you.  The flaps are too large.  Try hammering a corner, its like putting on the brakes.  I scratch built one a few years ago with a piped Magnum .36 on it.  The flaps were trimmed by at least 7/16 (full length) and the elevators reduced also.  I did a little math and it had similar percentages as a modern full fuse stunter.  It had an early death due to a flame out on a clover.  Operator error, and a sad end to a real nice profile model.

You asked, trim the flaps!

Edit: added a picture
Mike

Offline Steve Agrella

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2015, 09:27:38 PM »
Thanks Bret I will take your advice, yes Bill I have a 4" bell crank, thanks for your reply, Mike, noted, super nice profile Cardinal one of the nicest I've seen, love the way you did the front end, now you got me really thinking, I love it.
Great site, thanks again for all of the replies, I really appreciate you making up my mind for me. H^^

Offline David Ruff

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2015, 02:40:23 AM »
just to be clear, this is the Brodak kit you are referring to?

I have one as well.
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Offline Steve Agrella

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Re: Profile Cardinal
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2015, 02:10:00 PM »
Yes Dave it is the Brodak kit


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