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Author Topic: Pig Surgery  (Read 1886 times)

Offline Randy Powell

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Pig Surgery
« on: July 05, 2006, 02:36:19 PM »
Well, the verdict is in and the new plane, for all it being a pretty thing, is not a good flyer. It came out pretty tail heavy and so needed an absurd amount of weight in the nose to balance (and is still a bit tail heavy). This ended up bringing the all up weight well past the unacceptable level and made for a wallowing pig in the air. The wing, based on the USA-1, just doesn't have the carrying capacity for that sort of pork.

So, the choice is, make it lighter or it becomes a hanger queen. I'm not much for wall decoration, so the pig gets cut.

The plan is to peel off the bottom block and tail block, thin the height of the fuselage aft of the CG by a goodly margin. This will kill some of the side area (sigh) but will also lose a chunk of weight. I'll replace the bottom block and tail block with lighter units. Probably molded sheets. With any luck, I can peel off at least 3 ounces from the tail. The farther back the better. That will let me also lose the nose weight I put in. Three ounces off the tail will mean 5oz out of the nose (the amount of led in there) and take the plane from a 68oz snorter down to a svelte 60 and back to a flyable plane...I hope.

edit

If there's any interest, I'll post some pics of the operation.
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Offline wmiii

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2006, 05:31:22 PM »
I for one would be interested. What you are going to do to a nice looking plane,is something that most of us would not due. Most people would hang it on the wall, because of all the work put into it. I would
cut into it for the very same reason "all the work", why let it go to waste. Pictures please

Walter y1
walter menges

Offline Oregon_Flyer

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2006, 08:53:45 PM »
Randy,

Please prepare for shipment to "Hangar Queen" Aumsville, OR.  when ready for transport
you may call 1-800-it's now mine toll free and a common thief will be dispatched pronto.
A faithful enactment of the enshrinement will be available to assuage your discomfort, and will be shipped to you free except for S&H <snicker>

Snug Lines

Marv

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2006, 11:02:06 AM »
OK. I'm just about finished framing up the new plane. Just have to finish up the gear then I'll throw it in the rack. Then I'll start the work on Dangerous. I'll post some pics as I go along.

At least I learned one thing along the way. Never let up on weight issues. This was caused entirely because I got carried away with paint and didn't thin out the filler enough. It added a ton of weight aft of the CG.

The new plane will be a great deal lighter. I've done everything I can think of and a few things I've invented for the occasion on this plane. Bare frame weight sans gear is 19.6oz. Should point to a final ready to fly weight of under 50oz. OOOHHHH!

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Offline frank carlisle

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2006, 06:17:09 AM »
I love the "wallowing pig in the air" remark. I guess a little nip and tuck is in order. You've done such a great job finishing that plane that I know you won't leave any unsightly scars on that puppy.
Good luck DR. RANDY.
Frank Carlisle

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2006, 02:30:54 PM »
I'd suggest extending the nose and moving the engine and tank forward. I think the results will be more certain, at least. Maybe graft in a firewall and add an R/C type mount?   n~  Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2006, 08:42:31 PM »
I'd suggest extending the nose and moving the engine and tank forward. I think the results will be more certain, at least. Maybe graft in a firewall and add an R/C type mount? n~ Steve

I think Steve is on the right track here. Extending the nose will accomplish the removing of the 5 ounces not wanted up front and the extention will be minimum weight compared to the already heavy front end.  But I realize that it's not always an easy thing to do.
Greg Bahrman, AMA 312522
Simi Valley, Ca.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2006, 10:56:58 PM »
If it didn't have the canopy right on the nose, might be worth it. But I know what's in the tail and I'd rather make it lighter overall. I'm pretty certain I can take 3-5oz off the tail (and the overall weight of the plane). That lets me lose the 6 added ounces  (I pulled all the lead and the spinner weight tonight - 6.1 oz). That loses 9oz and brings the overall weight down to a svelte 60 oz or so. Perhaps a bit less. And considering the paint work on the nose...no thanks. Not again.

Here are a couple of pre-cut pictures. The knifes come out tomorrow.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2006, 06:52:43 PM »
Well, she got cut today. The first pic is the bottom block cut off. The next the pieces that were removed (about 3.5oz worth). I had used some thinned epoxy and 1/2oz CF cloth to reinforce some 3/32 sheet for the original molded bottom block. The new unit will be unreinforced.  I'm still considering removing the tail block. Also a pic of the new piece in the mold.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2006, 10:52:09 AM »
Just a note. Finished the surgery. Lost about 6 ounces overall. Took the plane out (without a ton of weight in the nose) and flew in with the repairs in clear dope (no sense in finishing it if it doesn't fly). And it's improved. Still not competitive, but better. So it goes in the rack for now while I think it over.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2006, 11:13:44 AM »
Ty,

The paint was Certified Insignia White (very high solids) with some House of Kolor pearl added in. Total weight gain from the white: .5oz. It wasn't the white, it was the fillercoat. I just didn't spend enough time sanding it. And the nose was too short. Another inch of nose and the problem would have been less. But still, the overall gain from the finish was a porky 15oz (my usual finish for a similar sized plane is 8oz).

It comes down to not enough airfoil. The wing is simply not a high enough lift unit. The overall weight is now 65oz. Normally, absolutely fine for a ~760 square inch plane. But the USA-1 airfoil just can't carry the weight. It just can't. If I ever build this thing again, it will be with a different airfoil and layout for the wing.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2006, 11:56:32 AM »
Trust me, the white on the bottom is pretty thin.

I suspect I'll resurect it at some point. It and another plane are awaiting eventual rebuilds.
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Offline phil c

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2006, 01:11:46 PM »
Randy, just suggestion- with so much weight pickup in the finish probably the best place to start would be stripping off the wing covering.  That is likely where the bulk of the weight is.  I've found it's really hard to sand long enough and hard enough on covering over ribs.  too easy to sand through, so even a thin coat of paint or filler can add up to a lot of weight with all those square inches.
phil Cartier

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pig Surgery
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2006, 09:58:17 AM »
Phil,

It may come to that. The biggest problem is weight behind the CG. I suspect that it will just ride the rack for a bit. I'll finish the new plane and think about it later.
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