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Author Topic: Paint tests!  (Read 1029 times)

Offline Larry Renger

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Paint tests!
« on: July 10, 2008, 11:39:23 PM »
I am starting a series of paint test sequences on raw balsa boards.  I will record the results and keep the samples.  So far I plan to do Nitrate/tissue/Nitrate with cornstarch filler as a base for each.   Then I have Krylon primer and color with Klass Kote clear topcoat, Lusterkote, Rustoleum and Hangar 9 paints as the final finish for the samples planned so far.

I would be interested in suggestions for other base/topcoat combinations to do.  I suppose an article could come out of this once I have a sufficient data base.

Also, suggestions for how to evaluate the results, other than it ate the cat and ran off into the woods.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2008, 11:50:45 PM »
Larry,
what is your goal, is it simply to discover as many ways as possible to finish wood?  or is there a more distinct purpose, as in the most effective, the lightest, the simplest,,,,
Lord knows there are a kajillion methods. Once we know what your focus is, I am sure you will get many many different methods. I can list about 4 or 5 easily as well as a few experimental ones I am working on
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 08:20:57 AM »
Since I like 1/2A models, the prime goal is to come up with a really lightweight finish.  Of course, minimum time, maximum fuel-proofness, maximum gloss, and simplicity would be nice.

Actually, also, I have some Flame Red Ultrakote that I want to match, and have both Hangar 9 and Lusterkote rattlecans to try color samples.  In addition, I want to refine my Rustoleum technique and try Klasskote over Krylon.

So far, the Krylon white primer sprays beautifully and sands out easily.  Rustoleum primer is a bear to sand.  That stuff is tough!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 12:34:57 PM »
I'd like to see you do these tests on a framework, silkspan covered. Then poke a hole in the covering and try to figure out how to patch/repair the damage to a decent standard with these mixed paints.

I still think the best bet is all-dope, tho dope with Dupli-Color seems to be entirely practical. If you don't break stuff, or poke holes in your models, then all your planned tests are appropriate.  LL~ Steve
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 03:39:39 PM »
Steve,
as you know some of us are pursuing that very thing. I think though that based upon what Larry said, he is doing Ultracote over the open bays and finishing the solid surfaces.
Larry, If you have access, you may try brushing a overthinned coat of catalyzed clear on the bare wood then using primer over that. the urethane clear acts as a hardshell to help prevent sanding through
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 08:11:04 PM »
Larry, I have a build thread going on right now that has an almost identical tone.

I was told by Mike Spiess to use Minwax water based Polycrylic clear gloss as a sealer.
Quote by Mike Spiess:
"I have used this with silkspan on balsa, only 2 coats though it build very fast and you don't have to precoat the wood. Doesn't hardly smell at all. Just wet the silkspan as always and brush thru. If you want a really light great looking finish I use this without silkspan and brush thinned spackle compound on it once its dry sand with 400 grit. Then Duplicolor primer and rustolium paint.  Of course sanding as needed. Works great for a 1/2As."

So he likes the Duplicolor primer instead and seems quite happy with the results.

Mike also seems quite happy without the use of silkspan with good results for half A planes.
This is a little confusing to me, leaving out the silkspan still be good.

Surely one can omit silkspan on solid balsa and since the Minwax doesn't behave like dope when it gets wet with a second cote of whatever you follow it with, I can see how only a second coat could be done and not use the silkspan and it would be less work.

The Rustoleum is the key for durability but could I get away with the cheap 99 cent Walmart colors (since I need three colors for my plane) and top with the Rustoleum Clear protective? This seems like it would work to me.

Money is really tight these days and clear coating really makes for a deep gloss as most folks know.

I have already asked this question and have not yet had an answer.  If this does not belong here I apologize but half A finish and the materials are nearly identical so I thought I would share what I have and hopefully glean the same answers in the long run.

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

posthole_digger

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2008, 06:50:48 AM »
Rustoleum Clear protective?

Rustoleum clear is not fuel proof.

Paul

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2008, 06:03:52 PM »
Rustoleum Clear protective?

Rustoleum clear is not fuel proof.

Paul

Paul, I have read this opinion before (more than once) but also have read that it does well and that it does so-so. What is the real truth?
Not having used the Rustoleum myself I am learning.  The color is merely pigment solids and since the pigment is suspended in the paint, how does this make a difference? In other words the pigment does not chemically alter the paint base into which it is mixed.

I learned many years ago how to mix (automotive) paint including of course metallics so do have a more intense and in depth experience than do some others. Even back then I wondered about using automotive paint for models. Those in the know at that time said for bigger planes it was fine but way too heavy for what I wanted to do.

The Rustoleum from what I have read needs to dry sometimes for weeks before it is ready for what we need.
Does this hold true with the clear? I would think so. How long did those who used the clear let theirs dry?
Could this make a difference?

I for one have not seen a picture showing this to be true. It would be nice to see some solid evidence one way or another.

I am not needing to pour raw fuel onto the painted surface, so only need the paint to resist the hot oily residue from the exhaust.

If the clear does not protect as well, I sure want to know why.   

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 10:08:06 PM »
Quote by Ralph White in Il.:
"I just tested  rustoleum  clear (both gloss and satin). I let it set about a week before putting raw glow fuel on it. It was over  rustoleum white on Worldtex covering. I used 5% nitro fuel. Both gloss and satin were affected by the fuel. The fuel made the satin shine more. The gloss changed a little also. The clear did not gum up or anything. I don't know what would happen if repeated several times as when flying. I decided to just paint the worldtex covering with  rustoleum  white and the trim colors without using a clear coat.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL"

Quote by jmikesh  in reply to Ralph White:
"works great..but wait 2-3 weeks before exposing it fuel.(in reply to Ralph White)"

Another quote by Ralph White:
"Since my 2/25/08 post I have let my test panel set. Now I again tried raw fuel on the gloss clear and satin clear. I used 30 percent nitro fuel this time. After setting for 4 more weeks the clear gloss now does not seem to be affected by the raw fuel. I believe it is comletely fuel proof. The satin clear did not gum up or anything..."

Quote by Edwin:
"In the beginning I used luster coat clear over  rustoleum  with no problems. Later, I didnt use it anymore. Your call.
Edwin"

Lustercoat being the Top Flite brand which has been proven a long time ago to be fuel proof and is advertised to be just that.

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Mike Spiess

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2008, 01:55:28 PM »
Hey guys I've been on vacation and didn't see this till now. Robert I belive the clear Rustolium is a diffrent formula than the paint. As I can attest that it is fuel RESISTANT not fuel proof. And as to Polycrilic over bare wood I brush a thinned coat of spackling compound and use 400 grit sandpaper to smooth befor the primer and paint. That gets it a really smooth finnish. I was asked once where I got a plastic Skyray till I turned it over and they could see the bottom. I usualy get in a big hurry to get planes done and the finnish is the last thing so some times I really rush thru it and it shows. But thats how I developed this method as its the fastest but cetainly not the best. But I fly and build not paint. Maybe some day when I retire I'll give it a try.
You don't stop flying cause your get OLD
You get OLD cause you stopped flying
St Peter MN
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Offline Mike Spiess

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2008, 02:04:01 PM »
OH I did use Rustolim over just plain wood and it fuelproofed it you could see all the grain in the wood and glue joints but it is still fuelproof. It's a Banshee I had $coted and had issues with the stuff peeling off the fuse so I stipped it and just put a coat of primer and painted it. Seems to work for quick and dirty way to get back in the air.
You don't stop flying cause your get OLD
You get OLD cause you stopped flying
St Peter MN
Present Master of the Figure 9

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Paint tests!
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2008, 03:59:29 PM »
I use a clear rattlecan spray called "spar varnish" that works very well, a light coat is all that's needed.  It even seals the edges of iron-on trim where it tapers very thin, down to a point even.  I put a light coat over the peel-n-stick letters on my Skywriter and they're holding up fine, after dozens of flights.
--Ray 
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