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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: frank carlisle on May 26, 2006, 04:36:49 PM
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Oh boy.........this is a mess. Part of the base color peeled off with the stencil. Is there any way to fix this?
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Yes you can fix it. First shoot some clear dope on it. Then sand just the edges with 600 grit. Use low tack sign mask to cover letters and then airbrush ( feather it it) Then remove mask and re-clear. I have had to do it a million times.
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Sparky,
I'm short on time and the humidity is high. I'd like to do the touch up now. For sure the dope will blush.
QUESTION----will the blush go away after the touch up when I spray clear on a low humidity day?
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If the white blushes no bigie.
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the clear?
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Wait till no humidity or spry indoors where the air is.
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Robert,
This should be archived and illustrated in your upcoming post on painting.
He's not the only one to have a heart attack so close to the finish line.
Marv
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One comment. We've all had this many times. I agree with Robert. Shoot clear on the area and let it completely dry. Don't worry too much about blush at this stage. You can usually use retarder and thinner to get the blush out later if it persists. Be sure you tape off the lettering with some low stick tape before sanding the area so if you go through the clear, you don't take the lettering off. You want to make sure the ridges created by the peel up are as level as you can get them. Once that is done, tape off the lettering and shoot some more white on the area, remove the tape and shoot another coat of clear. Then you can lightly sand it and you're ready for clear or panel lines or whatever.
Another note. Sometimes this happens along a narrow, vinyl tape line. I had this happen on a plane awhile back due to some paint incompatability problems. Left several short narrow peel ups that went all the way to the silkspan, removing everything. Left quite a furrow. Too much for clear to level. I ended up taping off the area and filling the holes left by the missing paint and filler with some auto glazing compound. Sanded that, reshot the paint in the area as described and it's undetectable now. There is a great temptation to just use a brush to touch up areas, especially very small ones. Sometimes you can get away with this, but usually not and certainly not with metallic or pearlized paint. Resist the urge. Trust me on this. Use an airbrush.
Fixing this sort of stuff is often more art than science. There are some basic methods as Robert has noted, but sometimes you just have to get creative.
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Randy,
Great input and solution. Don't mean to keep harping but this is really a big deal for a lot of us that are trying to get something better than an orange peel job. Here I am with a lot of time in my BOM and now is the moment of truth. No matter how well constructed, what you see is what I built! I am hopeful that when the step by step how to process is
finalized that it is a building tips reference section all by itself. John Brodak has pages of info in his catalog and it's great but does not address the pitfalls of painting. Harry Higleys "there are no secrets" for all of its information cannot hold a candle to what you and Robert could provide. Guess I should apologize for blabbing on my pulpit, however I am one of the guys that really would like the reference for now and in the future.
Marv
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Thanks Sparky and Randy--I will follow these directions.
Marv-- I was out flying all day today and more is planned for tomorrow. However I will shoot clear in the morning and post pics and will follow up with step by step pics.
Right now I have a dehumidifier running on high in my basement shop. I'll let it run all night. In the morning I'll mix some clear. The mix will be 50% clear 40% thinner and 10% retarder (all Brodak). After I airbrush the area I'll post a pic.
I'll check here in the morning to see if Sparky or Randy have anything to add or change on my proposed mix. If they say do different I'll modify the recipe and let you know.
Also I've posted this pic of the whole plane elsewhere but I'll put it here too.
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Frank - Just a quick note - I've averted disaster with blush (here in the tropics of the gulf coast of Florida, it's hardly ever below 80% humidity) a few times. One is the paint mix, which yours sounds fine, the other is if you see it start to blush, drag the plane indoors to the house where you have the A/C running. I've done this and could actually watch the blush dissapear before my eyes.
Finally, if you have enough clear on, the blush is usually trapped on the very top layer, which you can buff out. If an early layer of clear blushes, don't sweat it, subsequent layers of clear will determine the final clarity.
All this is why I've gone to epoxy. It dries so slow I can paint at the exit of my garage in the pouring rain with no blush.
Plane looks great Frank, it'll be fine.
EricV.
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Frank,
Only thing I would add is the mix depends on the conditions. Certainly don't use more than 10% retarder. It can melt the colors underneath if you get too heavy with it. I usually use a mix something like what you suggest. I have trouble telling people what mix to use because I use dope from the aircraft supply places and it's considerably thicker than what you get in a hobby shop or from Brodak. The stuff comes out of the can like molasses. I usually only use about 30% dope and the rest thinner with about 5% of that retarder, but as I say, I use some pretty thick dope. Just thin it 'till it sprays easily from your gun (or airbrush). Your mix sounds fine.
Lets up know how it comes out.
Marv,
I'm in the middle of an article for Stunt News with my finishing system. I think Robert has done some stuff too. He uses a somewhat different methodology than I do but obviously gets very good results. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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It's 5:18 a.m. the humidity is 87%. I've just finished spraying the affected area with the clear dope mix described in earlier post. Got some mild blushing but not too bad.
I wanted to stay in bed but was concerned about getting this done and still getting to an electric fly in on time. Rick Sawicki and I will be the only c/l flyers with electric models. Since no one there will know or care what the clpa pattern looks like, we are going to fly it with no level laps.
I just checked the touch up area- it is dry to the touch and the section where the paint peeled off has leveled out very nicely.
THIS IS GOING TO WORK!! EUREKA!!
I'll sand, mask and paint the white tomorrow--more pics then. :!
Thanks guys.....................
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Hi Frank:
Good stuff from everyone on this problem. Did you warm up the mask prior to pulling it? I use a hair dryer and it really helps. Also, even with low-tack mask, Before sticking it down, I swipe the adhesive side over a bluejean pant leg. It helps to break the tack a little more. I also always outline the bask area as close to the edge as about 1/8" with the paper-based low tack delicate finish tape. so, as far as practical, only 1/8 " of the mask is actually touching the painted surface.
These things have really helped to minimize this type of problem for me in the last couple years.
Curt
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I'm in the middle of an article for Stunt News with my finishing system. I think Robert has done some stuff too. He uses a somewhat different methodology than I do but obviously gets very good results. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
I have not written a article on finish because my methods are unorthodox and I do not recommend them to anyone. Some of the things I do are old school and some are new technology but the thing they have in common is elbow grease!
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SO.......................I've airbrushed a coat of clear this morning and another coat of clear yesterday. I sanded the area lightly with 600 grit wet/dry paper.
The picture shows the affected area that I have masked off. I left plenty of white area so that I can airbrush the white without actually getting to the masking tape so as to avoid getting any sharp edges. The idea here is to feather the white onto the surface as Sparky related in an earlier post.
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Are you going to use Auto Urethane top coat clear? If so the hard line won't matter if not feather it.
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I'm going to use Brodak clear Unless you can tell me (and I'm sure you can) a better way to go.
So.............I've sprayed the white onto it and unmasked it. There is still a ways to go.
I'm thinking that I should leave it alone till tomorrow. Then sand lightly and put some clear on top of it. After that we see what it looks like and go from thetre.
The blue is going to need a little work too.
I think at some point I need to sit myself down and give me a good long talking to about keeping things simple.
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Don't sand the color! Fix the blue if you have to and then shoot clear. First shoot clear around the affected part. Then shoot the whole panel. Then sand it out. Only sand the clear. You are trying to level up the area. Just keep that in mind. I would use 1500 grit and then 2000.
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O.K. .......I want to touch up the blue just a bit and then I'll go straight to clear.
Thanks for the help. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
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>>I have not written a article on finish because my methods are unorthodox and I do not recommend them to anyone. Some of the things I do are old school and some are new technology but the thing they have in common is elbow grease! <<
Robert,
I was thinking of the many contributions you've made here and on SSW. While not a magazine, this is still publishing your ideas. I can't see a thing "wrong" with your methods. They are not what I use, but that doesn't really matter much. It works for you. Clearly since the outcomes are so good.