News:
Support----><----Support



Advertise Here

  • July 23, 2019, 12:07:23 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?  (Read 19509 times)

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« on: November 06, 2014, 04:59:34 PM »
So I broke my ARF flite streak, pancaked inverted on the maiden flight knocking the nose off, and I am building a "stretch" version fuselage. 

When I drew on my Flite Streak plans to extend the fuselage I noted that there is about 1 1/2 degree down on the h.stab.  I completely missed this detail until I extended the line to make a template to build the stretch fuselage. 

I built two flite streaks that are not yet finished without the "down" on the stab.  I have checked, and rechecked this fact.  They are painted and waiting for covering (I don't have the color I thought I did), and final setup of the engine and controls. The intended purpose of these planes is to learn the modern pattern.

How much effect will the effective "up" on the stab have on the overall flyability of these two planes?  Should I cut the stab out and redo it per the plans, or not worry about it? 

Using two good metal rulers I compared the thrust line to the wing and stab, the down on the stab is to make all three lines parallel.

I am leaning to not worrying about it, but don't want to have complete dogs over this little detail.

Phil

Online Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 11131
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 05:32:16 PM »
Setting up 0-0-0 on incidence, thrust line, and stab should be OK.

There's a camp that says that you should put a tiny bit of positive incidence on your stab (LE up, about half a degree).  I never do that, and my planes seem to fly OK.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 05:49:15 PM »
Setting up 0-0-0 on incidence, thrust line, and stab should be OK.

There's a camp that says that you should put a tiny bit of positive incidence on your stab (LE up, about half a degree).  I never do that, and my planes seem to fly OK.

...so cut it out and fix it.

Phil

Online Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 11131
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2014, 06:25:43 PM »
No no!  You misread what I wrote, or I didn't express myself clearly, or something.

If your motor, wing, and stab are all level, finish up the planes and go for it!  If the LE if your stab is a hair up (positive incidence, giving a bit of "down") -- finish up the planes and go for it!  If there's a lot of negative incidence on the stab, giving a lot of "up", then you may want to consider hacking things apart.  But even then, it'll only show up when you try for really smooth level flight, and if you're still trying to learn how not to crash, that should be the least of your worries.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2670
    • My Tube channel
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 06:56:18 PM »
Phil, my recent Skyray kit fuselage was cut with a tiny positive incidence on the stab. I noticed because I was enlarging the stab and found its deck not quite parallel with my main centerline through the wing and engine. I fixed it without any questions, but found out later that another Skyray kit builder had seen the same thing on other kits. If we hadn't seen it with our superior observational skills, I bet it would have flown just fine. I vote for leaving it too.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Dave_Trible

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4660
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 07:09:39 PM »
Fix it.  The few minutes work will be worth it.  Fighting a goofy airplane doesn't help your flying much .

Dave
AMA 20934
FAA Certificate FA3ATY4T94

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2014, 08:37:03 PM »
I'll look carefully at the finished planes and see how they actually went together. The plans call for a tiny bit of "down" which is actually bringing things to 0-0-0.  I have a bit of "up" if everything else went together as straight as I expect, so this is negative incidence (about 1.5 degrees in fact). 

Rusty, I think I did a bad pattern to do what you did.  I would have never noticed I made this error if I wasn't extending the lines to draw the stretched fuse for the rebuild. 

(speaking of drawing I went over ellipses today...Ugh.  My paper pattern looks pretty nice for the 30% larger stab on the stretch streak.)

Dave has a good point since I am cutting into the ARF already.

Phil

Offline Jim Thomerson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 2090
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2014, 07:10:10 AM »
I have noticed on several profiles that the flat rear top of the fuselage is a hair above parallel to the centerline, but the stab cutout is parallel.  I've seen the same thing on the full fuselage Papoose plans. 

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 10:13:34 AM »
I am using a wooden box that measures square.  I have a 1/8 inch shim under the TE, with the fuse flat to the table.  The bag is to save my cutting mat.  This is the stretch fuselage and 30% oversize horizontal stabilizer.  The elevator (currently used as the shim) is the same chord as original, but wider to match.  The chord of the h-stab was increased by an inch to make it cosmetically work.

Now if my daughter naps I might get the taking apart done!

Phil

Online Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 11131
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 10:44:54 AM »
Phil, do you have an incidence meter?  The way I verify 0-0 alignment of wing and elevator is to put an incidence meter on the wing and get things blocked up until the wing is dead level.  Then I check that the horizontal stab is level, either with a machinist's level or an incidence meter.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 11:27:09 AM »
Phil, do you have an incidence meter?  The way I verify 0-0 alignment of wing and elevator is to put an incidence meter on the wing and get things blocked up until the wing is dead level.  Then I check that the horizontal stab is level, either with a machinist's level or an incidence meter.

No, I don't.  I might have to do something about that.

Phil

Online Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 11131
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 12:06:55 PM »
Get one.  Or build one.  There's plans around (now, if only I could tell you where to look).
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 11131
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 12:08:59 PM »
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 01:09:03 PM »
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXET66&P=ML

Kinda spendy, but very well built.

I added that onto the order I was working on.  I also ordered pin hinges, among other things.  I wish my local hobby shop was less than an hour each way.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2014, 01:17:32 PM »
Argh!  I am mixing threads.  Parts of this story are found in the ARF thread I started earlier.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,36388.0.html

I will be continuing in this thread.

Phil

Offline Avaiojet

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6705
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2014, 08:06:34 AM »
Phil,

It's nice to see you're carrying this build, profile or not, to a good level.  H^^

Above the bar so to speak.

I built Flite Streaks in the past, way past! One of them, I actually shortened the tail but added flaps.
Turned on a dime!

I just built a FS, the SKYFALL 007. I put everything at 0-0-0.

I only increased the elevater area. Fox 35 powered.

I may never fly it, I just might get it bronzed. Yes, I'm kidding.
 
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS

Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS
 Please visit my updated Website! www.cfcgraphics.com  If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot.  Owner of CFC Graphics. "Model Airplane Graphics from a Model Airplane Builder."  "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten.  I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.  "Ya gotta love it when a plane comes together."  Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2014, 08:20:24 PM »
Rustoleum painter's touch x2 primer is ... gummy... after overnight cure.  It wasn't balling up, but it sure was packing into the sandpaper in a most unpleasant way.  I dug out a power sander, the 1/3 sheet vibrating type, to finish.  The same paper didn't load up and it cut faster.

I am trying to emulate the original color scheme on the rebuilt fuse.  I put white Rustoleum painter's touch on for the canopy area, I'll try and mask to shoot red tomorrow, and if all goes well I'll mask and shoot the navy blue in between by the end of the week. (I couldn't find flag or insignia blue)

Maybe I can get the sheeting fixed this week too.

Still waiting on Tower for the rest. 

I need to get a picture or two up here.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2014, 08:28:57 PM »
So I got paint on the replacement fuselage.  Looks good.  14 days then I might hit it with polyurethane, maybe...maybe not.  Haven't touched the wing yet, have to still decide if I will go for BOM and strip the whole wing or if I will just open the center where the sheeting is damaged and patch the covering there.  I am strongly leaning to patching, IF I compete, I doubt a couple appearance points will make any difference in how I place.  (yea, still an if.)

The light blue one, with the failed paint, is leveled, 0-0-(0) (no engine holes yet)   I leveled the stab then checked the wing, and after accounting for calibration error it was in fact -1.5 degrees on the stab, so "up" trim.  I carefully cut it out with my vibrating saw.  I pinned the stab in the gap left by the saw kerf after carefully cutting it out. (7 pins!) I then checked square to the main spar, level to the main spar, and 0 incidence to the main wing.  Check, double check, a drop of CA, let it cure, triple check and check again, then a couple more drops of CA.  I should have kicked as the CA bridging the gaps took an hour to cure!  I just packed the entire gap with epoxy now that the CA is cured and a final round of checking had been done.

The Robart incident meter is rather well made and easy to use, if plastic.  The parts are stoutly formed. I wish mine was calibrated.  Now I have to RMA the thing for repair and I have only had it for a day!  The spirit level agrees with my torpedo level, so I ran with it since 0-0-0 is the desired result.

As to the failed dope coating I think I will gently use a clean wire brush and strip whatever is loose, then sand lightly, followed by Rustoleum primer (NOT the X2!) then whatever color Rustoleum suits my fancy and I already own.  I am sure the failed coating is because I abused this batch of very old dope with too much thinner. 

Phil
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 08:53:18 PM by Phil Krankowski »

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2014, 09:20:12 PM »
Scrubbed, scraped, sanded, and shot primer a couple days ago.  Rustoleum Stop Rust, I think, killed the can.  Spackled with DAP Fast & Final lightweight spackle, then a few hours later sanded down to the blue and shot Rustoleum X2 grey primer, followed soon after by Navy Blue Rustoleum painter's touch X2.  I timed the dry interval aiming for 30 minutes.  Tomorrow, weather and nap time permitting, I will mask and shoot red and/or white... I will try to mask both with a paper bubble over the white since that will only be the canopy.

I was considering leaving it all navy, but I think I like the colors better.  I might need a new elevator since I wrapped this one in white monokote, intending to have white wings.  Cutting such a simple elevator is probably easier than unwrapping the monokote!

I haven't touched the ARF wing yet, it will wait till after next weekend, Thanksgiving and all is in the way.

Phil


Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2014, 02:36:51 PM »
Half the lights stopped working in my garage...

Anyways, just unmasked.  Putting a bubble over the white worked pretty good.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 10:05:14 AM »
Tore into the damaged ARF wing today.  I think this is as far as I am getting today.

These are really all "after"  The middle 3 ribs were broken.  The center I think will need a sister since it is not even close to straight.  There are 5 or so pieces that were glued back in.  The other two were 3 and 2 pieces to glue back in.

The LE was cracked, seems pretty clean.  I glued it then cut a groove and inserted a 3 inch piece of 1x3mm carbon fiber.  I think that will be much stronger than original.  The top and bottom spars show no damage.

I "uncrimped" the leadouts and tried to pull messenger lines (ha ha) so stripping the entire wing might be a requirement.  Uncrimping went perfectly.  I used a large pair of pliers, and a 1/8 inch rod (screwdriver shank really) and grabbed the crimp on the creases, and squeezed to the rod so as to not re-crimp.  There are a disturbing number of broken strands after dissassembly.  The bellcrank is the beefiest hunk of metal I have ever seen as a bell crank.  It is STEEL.  It appears 1/16 inch thick, maybe thicker.  The brass bushing is a 2-part affair with a press fit.  I would happily reuse the bellcrank without second thoughts if I can enlarge the holes as necessary.  The pushrod is rather thin material nowhere close to 3/32 and will be replaced.

Bell crank measures .060 thick steel.

Phil

« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 11:53:30 AM by Phil Krankowski »

Offline Avaiojet

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6705
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 06:11:16 PM »
Phil,

I've been peeking in.

Did you say you put a magnet on the bellcrank to see if it was steel?

The model is coming along and shaping up.

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS

Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS
 Please visit my updated Website! www.cfcgraphics.com  If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot.  Owner of CFC Graphics. "Model Airplane Graphics from a Model Airplane Builder."  "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten.  I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.  "Ya gotta love it when a plane comes together."  Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 07:05:02 PM »
Yes, I put a magnet on it, and it is steel.  I think it might be chromed to look pretty..maybe.  Lacquered cold roll can be pretty bright looking too.  It is also fairly heavy.

This surprised me as I know I have repeatedly read about soft aluminum bell cranks in the ARF Flite Streak.  This may be a nice recent change.  The lead outs are nicely crimped, and doubled, as seen in the picture.  The ends were nicely crimped too without showing any damaged wires that appeared upon uncrimping.  If I hadn't needed to dig into the wing I was not planning on changing them since they looked so nice.  My goal in uncrimping was more to save the eyelets than the wire.

Since I am this far I am tempted to go BOM legal because I can...and the dark color appears black instead of navy like I painted the fuse :-\  I have a goal of competing at some point.

Phil

Offline john e. holliday

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 20358
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2014, 01:21:27 PM »
Take my word for it, if it started life as an ARF it is still an ARF no matter what you do to it.   My self I don't care as I completely redid an ARF Oriental.  It is still classed as an ARF.   
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2014, 01:56:31 PM »
Take my word for it, if it started life as an ARF it is still an ARF no matter what you do to it.   My self I don't care as I completely redid an ARF Oriental.  It is still classed as an ARF.   

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,36623.0.html

Not according to this.  The wing structure is the only assembly being saved.  Yes, the wing is, and always will be an ARF wing.  There is nothing ARF about the fuse or controls.  Whatever bell crank I use will need drilled out for the push rod.

Anyways I might not even be ready to compete next summer, even if I can arrange time to.  At this point in my flying a few appearance points won't even start to fill in the hole from lack of skill and practice.

Phil

Offline Motorman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 4686
  • Millville NJ PDQ Flying Clown Country
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2014, 08:20:38 PM »
That's a Fox bellcrank or a copy. The center in steel but the rest is aluminum.
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2014, 08:45:53 PM »
It probably is a copy of something.  It sure does look like the Fox bell crank on Brodak. This one has a yellow brass center and the rest is steel.  A magnet sticks to the arms, but not the center.  I can't drill it by hand either.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2014, 09:26:28 PM »
Steel bell crank brought to you by the letter A and a 1943 steel penny.

Phil

Offline john e. holliday

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 20358
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2014, 09:58:29 AM »
Make sure you bush the ends for the lead outs.   Now for the push rod hole I now use 4-40 ball links.  No wear on the hole.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2014, 01:32:31 PM »
I'm going to use tubing to make bushings.  I haven't decided if I am using the steel ARF crank or a Brodak nylon crank.  The steel ARF crank was also drilled funny, the lead out holes were 3/32 already.  Part of my problem was a dull drill bit, solved by a new bit.  With a power drill the crank holed drilled very easily like mild steel.

I couldn't find my last pack of Brodak lead out wire, so I ordered stuff from Brodak including more lead out wire.  I am floored by the service, I ordered late on the 11th, and it shows up today (13th).  I have had overnight service if I order earlier in the day!  (yea, PA to OH isn't that impressive)

Since my wire is missing, I tried to use the ARF wire, and it is 7x7 wire, hair fine strands, and seemingly impossible to pass through tubing.  I'll save it for something.  I'll probably find my missing wire tomorrow.

I have looked into ball links before, and have decided against for now.  These are Flite Streaks.  It is getting .25 or .20 engines.  They will be used for stunt training, so have a limited life expectancy, unlike the (typically larger) nicer planes that are flown in advanced and expert.  Ball links are in my future, but I don't know when.

Phil

Online Howard Rush

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6591
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2014, 01:49:06 PM »
At this point in my flying a few appearance points won't even start to fill in the hole from lack of skill and practice.

At this point in mine, too.  That's what my coach keeps advising me.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2015, 06:05:13 PM »
I am banished to the basement.  Legos have taken over much of my former workspace.

 Finally did something, I stripped the film off the ARF wing entirely.  The wing is built different than I expected.  I like how the lead out guides are boxed in.    I always used cloth.  

I am undecided on pulling the neatly boxed tip weight and putting in a weight box.  I would have to make from scratch, which is Minor.


I cut the sheeting to replace the damaged section...then naptime was over, my daughter woke up much earlier than I expected.  Not even 1 and a master of the power nap.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2015, 08:38:53 PM »
I can laugh about 2 almost empty rolls of white monokote right? ~> #^ n~ HB~>

I laced up the brodak bellcrank, used spectra to serve the wires, a smear of hot glue and some heat shrink looks real pretty!  Problem is the metric bolt from the ARF bellcrank is too big for the brodak bellcrank, and the bolt from the brodak bellcrank passes straight through the tee-nut in the wing...  I have another good argument for reusing the steel bellcrank.

I think I will file two nails into clean points so I can expand a bit of brass tubing in the oversize holes, so I can use 1/16 brass tubing on the wires and just use the steel bellcrank.  I don't want to tear the bottom off the wing, and the effort is just increasing to change to the brodak bellcrank.  (and I really do like this steel bellcrank, almost as much as the nylon brodak cranks)

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2015, 02:37:51 PM »
I slapped some balsarite on the wing root,  TE, and fixed flaps of these two wings on this truly beautiful afternoon. 

Maybe I can make some covering happen soon.

Balsarite doesn't have an "open" time since it is heat activated right?

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2015, 05:58:11 PM »
Sick kids on spring break left me alone...


Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2015, 06:11:52 PM »
Now I am on the fence about the remaining airframe.  After I am finished with these, I have options.  I can fix it as it is.  I can also go electric maybe.

I bought a Brodak battery tray for profiles.
http://brodak.com/warbird-electric-conversion.html

I could also build the stretch fuselage for electric and order a rib kit to build a new wing...

Decisions that can be delayed...

Phil

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2670
    • My Tube channel
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2015, 06:59:12 PM »
The stretched fuse should make a better precision stunter. Maybe like a Skyray, only good looking. But for sport, that Streak sure is fun to fly.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
stitched hinge vs pin hinge on flite streak
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2015, 12:49:35 PM »
Why do I want a pin hinge? 
I understand a pin hinge is much superior to a CA hinge because it is much more free.
What advantage does a pin hinge offer over a stitched figure-8 hinge that I have used on most of my 1/2a stuff? 

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2015, 05:54:02 PM »
ARF wing dry fit to the stretch fuselage.  Duo-Bro hinges installed.

Phil

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2670
    • My Tube channel
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2015, 06:40:51 PM »
Properly sewn hinges are great provided the thread doesn't stretch. I pre stretch Dacron line before I sew it. I like the look on some planes. Especially the old models like my Yak-9 and Shoestring.
Rusty
Oops waited too long to post.
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2015, 08:00:32 PM »
Properly sewn hinges are great provided the thread doesn't stretch. I pre stretch Dacron line before I sew it. I like the look on some planes. Especially the old models like my Yak-9 and Shoestring.
Rusty
Oops waited too long to post.

I got another one to do soon.  Good thing everything is RED on that elevator as slotting the hinges made my fingers leak some.

I read up some.  Could not locate my slotting forks...so I practiced on some scrap using just a #11 blade.  Blew the 2nd and 3rd out of 4 practice slots.  Then blew 1 of 4 on each half on the plane...  The elevator is rather free after the epoxy cured.  I had to pick some cured epoxy out of one hinge, and it feels like it just "clicks" passing level/neutral. 

I got primer on the elevator for the other plane that I covered.  Hopefully paint this upcoming week.  Engine, fuel tank, wheel, tail skid.  Getting there pretty quickly.  I rather hope they are close to balanced when I am done, but I have lead, adhesive lead even!

I measured the battery tray motor mount from Brodak.  I don't think it will fit in the space of the stretched nose.  I think I will fix #3 and quit debating ideas... but first I am going to have these in flight ready condition.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2015, 01:46:32 PM »
I found the brand new slotting tool kit this morning.  HB~>  It was with the control horns I just bought. y1

I decided to cut the film with a soldering iron and glue the wing in.  Lined it up, marked everything, cut the film.  PERFECT!   I masked either slide of the cut, slid it in place, used cotton flocking thickened 30 minute epoxy.  I slid everything in perfectly, lined it up, pulled the masking tape and looked at the bellcrank access...ON THE UNDERSIDE of the wing!
 ??? HB~>
Sometime between cutting the wing and lining it up to glue I apparently flipped it over and set up for backwards flying!
 HB~>
thinking amazingly quick I re-masked the wing with fresh tape, and slid the wing onto the fresh tape, then cleaning the wing with paper towel.
 ::)
Happily my brain did not shut down and I masked further, this time using some newsprint paper.  I slid the wing onto the paper, tore the paper free, slid the fuselage off the wing and while peeling the paper out of the fuselage I experienced the happy time that epoxy "kicks" from being fluid to being a stringy solid.
 :)
So end result is the paint is not perfect around the wing slot anymore.  The covering of the wing is undamaged.  I think I can live with this.
 y1

Phil

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2670
    • My Tube channel
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2015, 05:13:26 PM »
...used cotton flocking thickened 30 minute epoxy.  I slid everything in perfectly, lined it up, pulled the masking tape and looked at the bellcrank access...ON THE UNDERSIDE of the wing!
 ??? HB~>
Sometime between cutting the wing and lining it up to glue I apparently flipped it over and set up for backwards flying!

Phil

Oh mercy, that sounds like something I could do. I'm glad you noticed it right away. Tell me about cotton flocking, I'm forever interested in gap filling materials. I mostly use pine or balsa dust, depending on what I'm packing gaps in. Some times I use microballoons if strength isn't a big issue. What is it and where do you get it?

I got my Oriental almost finished today. I'll write about it later on here, and in more detail over at CEF. I gotta learn how to put a canopy on. I'll be Googling that tonight.

Rusty
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2015, 06:40:40 PM »
I got cotton flocking from Aircraft Spruce.  Comes in a bag, it is cheap, and you get A LOT OF IT.  It takes very little to thicken the epoxy effectively.  The downside, it is relatively hard to sand since it does not contain a lot of air like microballoons.  The biggest upside is that the material is much safer than chop fiberglass for similar thickening power...although after mixed with epoxy I am sure the sanding dust is toxic.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/flockedcotton.php?clickkey=31560

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2015, 09:04:30 PM »
Sometimes big labels are needed.

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2015, 12:04:01 PM »
Maybe I should have looked at this a couple months ago.  The screw eye is busted out where the needle valve bracket broke free.

So...can I run the engine like this or will it leak?  Or I won't know till I bench it?

I have the twin to this engine, (literal, they came off a twin engine RC plane that was converted to electric by my neighbor) hasn't been benched yet but it is also converted to CL. 

I was planning on putting the FP20 on the un stretched streak.

I am going to need this engine in service at some point...

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2015, 01:56:12 PM »
Pushrod, not yet soldered
Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2015, 09:05:18 AM »
Soldered and adjusted for as equal deflection as I can get.  I have about 5/8 inch travel in up and down.  This appears to be about 20 degrees in each direction.  Am I in the right ballpark?

The Top Flite book calls for 3/8 inch deflection.
http://www.top-flite.com/airplanes/topa1000.html

The plans on outerzone do not say.
http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2652

I am in the middle bellcrank hole on the re-laced steel bellcrank, and the outermost control horn hole on a Brodak horn, which is about 1/8 inch taller than the original top flite horn.

The elevator chord is the same as on the Top Flite plans on outerzone, and I believe it is the same as the original ARF elevator, I only enlarged one dimension.

Phil

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2670
    • My Tube channel
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2015, 07:54:21 PM »
Maybe I should have looked at this a couple months ago.  The screw eye is busted out where the needle valve bracket broke free.

So...can I run the engine like this or will it leak?  Or I won't know till I bench it?
Maybe seal it with some RTV. It might work. Maybe you can get a new backplate and a traditional NV through the venturi.

Soldered and adjusted for as equal deflection as I can get.  I have about 5/8 inch travel in up and down.  This appears to be about 20 degrees in each direction.  Am I in the right ballpark?

The Top Flite book calls for 3/8 inch deflection.
http://www.top-flite.com/airplanes/topa1000.html

The plans on outerzone do not say.
http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2652

I am in the middle bellcrank hole on the re-laced steel bellcrank, and the outermost control horn hole on a Brodak horn, which is about 1/8 inch taller than the original top flite horn.

The elevator chord is the same as on the Top Flite plans on outerzone, and I believe it is the same as the original ARF elevator, I only enlarged one dimension.

Phil
That should be plenty of deflection. Flite Streaks generally don't need much to chase their tails.
I usually opt for a jam nut rather than solder, but if if's set right, then it shouldn't ever need adjusting.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
Re: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it?
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2015, 06:06:10 AM »
I think you misunderstood where I needed to solder.  The brass threaded end gets soldered to the steel rod, making everything adjustable.

Now all my dad's planes used 2-piece control rod with a brass tube in the middle to allow adjustment via heating the solder joint.  30 years later this is more elegant.

Phil


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here