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Author Topic: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.  (Read 2666 times)

Offline Perry Rose

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Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« on: October 03, 2021, 06:16:31 AM »
 
The wing span is 58 inches not what is posted on the plans and box.   If you follow directions use the Brodak wing jig or equivalent. Use an incidence meter to verify that both ends of the jig are the same. don't rely on a "flat surface". Be careful when using the laser cut leading and trailing edges. Make sure you have the inboard and outboard sets in the proper orientation. The center ends have a stub that can cause confusion. Don't cut it off yet.  The fuselage front sections have a cut out for the wing. use that to mark the leading edge radius and shape the leading edges before gluing the wing halves together. Also when gluing the fuselage fronts together use one of the cut outs to align them for gluing. Set one half on a flat surface put a scrap of 1/8 balsa in the wing opening, place one cut out on the balsa in the opening and use that to align the second half. After gluing use a scrap of 1/64 ply to reinforce the wing opening, front and rear. Not in the wing opening, there are flat spots outside the opening. If not it may break when wiggling the wing into the opening. Drill the hole for the landing gear in the torque blocks in a drill press. Use a piece of 1/8 wire to align it when you epoxy it in place. Trim the torque block to match the rib opening on the left wing to give the leadout wire all the room it needs before gluing it to the rib.
  I'm going electric with a printed motor mount so I'm going to use 1/16 ply on the nose doublers with triplers on both sides to fair the mount into the fuselage. It's a nice kit.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2021, 05:13:01 AM »
One thing I learned from Pat Johnston. Install shear webs between the wing spars ,being careful of the leadout wires, and across the trailing edge. It makes the wing a lot stiffer.

UPDATE 12/19/21
In the end I wasn't carefull enough. The rear leadout rubbed on the shear web and caused trouble making clearance for the cable.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 06:32:46 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Online ray copeland

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2021, 02:35:03 PM »
Perry, thanks for the building notes as i plan to build my kit this winter. I have to ask since i am not sure what a shear web is or where they need to go. Do you mind doing a pic or diagram, please and thank you, Ray
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Dave Hull

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Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2021, 06:07:55 AM »
Yes, what Dave posted. The trailing edge webs go between the trailing edge sheets, they don't stick out into the covering.

Also on the bellcrank to flap horn push rod, the kit has a rod with a "Z" bend at one end. I open the middle hole in the bell crank a bit and stuck the "Z" into it. Friction free. on the horn end I used a Du=Bro 4-40 Threaded Coupler #336 and a Sullivan 4-40 clevis. It's a solder on coupler, don't forget that the rod goes into the coupler 3/8 to 7/16". If you think the rod will bend in flight push on it and see what it takes to bend a 6 inch piece. I plan on a carbon rod for the elevator push rod. I don't like fair leads.
On the fuselage sides the wing chord line goes right through the screw hole in the tail weight box. I draw a line from the wing trailing edge to that hole and make a dimple or small hole three inches from the trailing edge of the wing so I can accurately locate the flap fairings. It saves with the bench trimming later on.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2021, 05:46:13 AM »
After using the wing knockout to mark the leading edge radius use a razor plane to take most of the balsa off the leading edge close to the line. Then use Ted Fancher's "shoe shine"method to finish it off. Having a few helpers to hold the wing panel will help a lot.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 10:35:51 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2021, 10:42:23 AM »
Canopy sandwich.  The canopy is made up of two pieces of 1/4" balsa. Fine and dandy except after you sheet the fuselage with 1/64 ply the canopy is now too narrow. Take a piece of 1/32 balsa and sandwich that between the canopy pieces. That will make up for the extra fuselage thickness and you will have a smooth line bottom to top. I caught that too late and had to glue the 1/32 to the outside of the canopy. Rounding may tear the 1/32 up a bit if not sandwiched between the CB and CBR canopy pieces.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2021, 02:06:31 PM »
1/64 ply fuselage skins.  The skins and the front fuselage have 1/8 slots for the control horns to pass through. Aligning the skin and fuselage slots for the wing and stab so you can glue the skins on is tricky. I used a 1/8 inch piece of ply scrap in the slots of the skin and fuselage at the wing and stab to align both while gluing. I figure the ply is more accurate than my building over  the plan. To stop the skin from moving when weighted  I tack glued the skin at the front and rear, removed the 1/8 pieces and put a full length weight on. Feeling silly I read the directions and found that the rear end should be tapered before putting the skins on. I'll use the sander and taper it removing some of the ply in the process. It will be under the stab anyway.
  When you glue the canopy on it will need trimming  to flatten the gluing surface of the canopy.





I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2021, 09:04:06 PM »
Or you can use a technique I first saw in one of Roger Greene's profile designs, the Aetos from the March '79 Model Aviation:  let the canopy be thinner to set off the edge of the fuselage and make it look less like a profile. It is a subtle detail that adds some realism back to any profile job.

Dave

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2021, 11:22:10 AM »
http://perrystoys.blogspot.com/

I put some photo's on my blog which may explain thing or two. How I install flap horns and such.
  I gathered all the parts and weighed them along with the electric motor , ESC, timer, prop and spinner etc. Sans covering and other incidentals it weighs 39.3 ounces. The power train is about the same weight as a fuel engine set up. so the estimated finished weight listed in the directions 45 ounces is obtainable using just kit wood.

 On another note I managed to run my right/flying hand through a prop this morning. Ouch I said along with heck, darn and the grand daddy of them all shucks. I have 30 or so cuts from my wrist to my first thumb knuckle or whats left of them. Luckily the walk in clinic was almost open and it's taken care of. Oh I forgot I said drat too.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 06:14:27 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2021, 12:07:00 AM »
Perry,

Sorry to hear of your vocabulary lessons misfortune. Hopefully it will all heal up quickly with no lasting damage.

Dave

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2021, 02:48:21 PM »
Something I do with today's control horns. The horns are drilled for 3/32 push rods. I use Du-Bro or Sullivan clevis's which have 1/16" pins. That makes a lot of slop in the control system. I use a clevis at the top of the flap horn and another one at the elevator end of the flap to elevator push rod. What I found is that 3/32" aluminum tubing fits the horn holes perfectly. I cut a 1/8" piece of the tubing, stick it in the horn hole and using two center punches, one at either end of the tubing, flair the tube ends to capture the tube and then flatten the flairs in a vise. That makes a great bushing reducing the slop. I only have to do the top hole on the flap horn but all three on the elevator horn. My flap to elevator push rod has a 3/32 wire at the flap end, which needs no bushing, and a clevis at the elevator end which needs all the bushings it can get.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2021, 10:04:02 AM »
www.perrystoys.blogspot.com 

I installed the elevator fairings perfectly in line with the stab. using shims to center them on the stab. The above link should get you to the photos and text.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 06:16:24 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2021, 12:18:25 PM »
I figured out how to place the flap fairings exactly on the wing chord line using the slot for the control horn to slide through. As usual it's on my blog. www.perrystoys.blogspot.com  It's brilliant really.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 06:17:38 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2021, 01:47:38 PM »
Yesterday I sprayed on the base coat of white. Today I assembled the rest of the stuff so it can be test flown. Without the battery it weighs 49 ounces which is about what it would weigh with an LA 46 in the nose and no fuel. I used only the kit wood.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2021, 02:55:56 PM »
Sure a lot of good info on building a plane.  Hope she fly well for you. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2021, 07:08:08 AM »
I got in 4 2 minute flights with the plane.It took 3 to get the speed down to the low 5 second range but it flew quite well with 0.9 ounces of tip weight and about 1/4 inch aft of c/g limit. No other weight added other than required equipment.
It's back in the shop for trim paint and clear.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2021, 06:30:47 AM »
Right now I'm masking off the last trim color. It weighs 36 ounces so far.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2021, 12:37:08 PM »
It's finally ready to fly again. I flew it before the trim colors to see if it was viable. The plane weighs 51.4 ounces without the battery. So with an engine it should be a bit lighter without fuel. If I used the recommended electric motor it would be in the high 40 ounce range. As usual the photo is on my blog. www.perrystoys.blogspot.com
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 06:18:57 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2021, 01:15:23 PM »
It's finally ready to fly again. I flew it before the trim colors to see if it was viable. The plane weighs 51.4 ounces without the battery. So with an engine it should be a bit lighter without fuel. If I used the recommended electric motor it would be in the high 40 ounce range. As usual the photo is on my blog. www.perrystoys.blogspot.com

What motor would you consider to be "recommended" for that plane?
I wouldn't consider the 3515 to be grossly oversized for that size/weight.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2021, 06:53:05 AM »
The plans say .40 to .51 engines. Middle of the road is the .46 LA which will do just fine but the .51 size engine would be much better. I have an ASP .51 and 3 EVO .52's all converted to C/L by Lee machine shop. They will pull it with authority. The Super Tiger .51 also.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2021, 05:57:22 AM »
I put up 5 serious flights yesterday with the Mo' Best. It acts like the c/g is aft but it is in the middle of the range. I added a bit of nose weight and will give that a try later today. The elevator push rod is in the outermost hole and it still has a very good turn. So it will take more nose weight if it comes to that. With the added weight the c/g is still within the recommended range. I removed the 2.25 wheels and put 2.5 wheels on which stopped the nose dip on landing in the grass. I have been trying other props and the APC 12 x 6EP tractor seems to work the best right now.
  The description says you need building skills for this plane. I found it easier than all other kits I've built. The slotted leading and trailing edge wing pieces and stab simplify things greatly. the slots for the flap and elevator horns make aligning the flaps and elevators fairings real easy which in turn makes getting the flaps and elevators zeroed easy. My wing developed a bit of a warp after painting and I found that the flap horn has memory. I tweaked it and the next day the tweak was gone. I'm hesitant to "tweak" any horn as I broke one several years ago. The adjustment finally stayed, after 4 tweakings. I generally use 1/8 stick welding rod for horns. Plenty strong and takes a good tweaking.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2021, 10:17:06 AM »
It's finally ready to fly again. I flew it before the trim colors to see if it was viable. The plane weighs 51.4 ounces without the battery. So with an engine it should be a bit lighter without fuel. If I used the recommended electric motor it would be in the high 40 ounce range. As usual the photo is on my blog. www.perrystoys.blogspot.com
Why IC?  I checked your blog.  Two mighty fine looking planes. y1

About the tweaking, if you heat the bends really hot before you bend the horn it will give the horn Alzheimer's and tweaks will stay put.  Personally I don't like tweaking.  Adjustable or tabs for mwa.   I am surprised there was a memory issue with welding rod. :o  Or was it the dreaded piano wire?

ken
AMA 15382
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Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2021, 10:53:58 AM »
It was the kit supplied control horn.
 
 I found that the rear leadout was rubbing on the last shear web. I put those in, not supplied in the kit. It took some figuring before I was able to knock that web out of the way. Hacksaw blade didn't work. Anyway at the field this morning the plane flew a lot better. Now I'm changing the balance to get a better turn. I had put an ounce on the nose which I removed and I moved the battery aft about 3/4 inch. The c/g is near the aft limit but not over, it was near the fwd limit but not out. The elevator pushrod is in the far hole so I have a lot of elevator to use if needed. Plus handle spacing to go.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2021, 05:42:36 AM »
I installed a 6-32 bolt and Du-Bro aileron connector int the elevator next to the elevator control horn. That is infinitely adjustable for length,set the pushrod between the middle hole and the outer hole and the plane responded nicely. I ordered some better looking adjustable control horns from Du-Bro ,sku 493, and will install one when they come in. I ended up putting the push rod back into the center hole in the elevator horn and changing the handle spacing to close in on the turn I want.
  There are a few things I believe are not accurate enough for me. One is "Slightly nose down" when setting the leadouts another is "Slightly nose down when you lift the plane by the wing tips". Even another is "Measuring the c/g from the leading edge".  I use a line level graduated in inches per foot to set the leadoust, I built a balance stand to find the balance point and I measure from the straight portion of the wing to find the c/g range which is generally the trailing edge. A Ringmaster would measure from the leading edge as the trailing edge is tapered and Twisters and Pathfinders from either location as they have "Hershey Bar wings.     
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 06:55:17 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2021, 01:03:18 PM »
I found a set of 63 foot lines, eye to eye, and flew the plane with them. There was a slight change for the better as I like bigger maneuvers. I didn't time the laps but should be in the 5.5 second range. I had good tension all over.I added what I call drag strips to the elevators and that helped elevator effectiveness. All in all I think the plane is ready for competition. The balance point ended up 1/8 inch forward of the aft limit by moving the battery aft 3/4 inch and no other added weight.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2021, 06:54:21 AM »
Final notes:
As it sits right now and most probably will stay the weight is 52.6 ounces without the battery. I'm using a 3000 mAh 5 cell Hobby Star Li Po from R/C Juice.com. It's shorter and lighter. As stated above the  balance is at 6 3/8" from the trailing edge or 1/8 inch inside the c/g range aft limit. The leadouts sit at 6.0 inches from the trailing edge and that gives me 1/8 inch per foot nose down or perfect placement, set it and forget it. The push rods from the bell crank to the elevator horn are in the holes shown on the plans. Middle hole on the bell crank to the outer hole on the flap horn, then the middle hole to the middle hole on the elevator horn.I'm still going to install the Du-Bro adjustable horn when they come in as It gives me more adjustability. .0010 up or down if I want. I'd have to move to the north west to feel that change. I have one ounce of tip weight which can change as I'm not good at getting that right by myself. I did put an insulator between the weights as they rattled. The thrust lines are set at Zero all around.
 The kit itself is typical Brodak, quick and easy to build, very complete and with the balsa supply as it is pretty good wood. The wing ribs have the holes for the Brodak wing jig and that's what I used. I much rather use the Adjusto Jig as I can build the wing in one piece. As it was the wing came out nearly perfect. I was surprised that the finished wing fit into the fuselage cut out with no sanding of either part to make it fit. The fit was real close with no gaps anywhere. The laser cut ply sides held the wing and stab in perfect alignment. ( As perfect as can be expected with plastic incidence meters.) All the hinge pockets are located for you. I like to make my own trailing and leading edges but I had to use the fork tool to make the hinge slots, it worked out fine. As far as tapering the aft end of the fuselage after gluing the ply sides on, I used the belt sander and sanded away from the ply. The taper ends up under the stab anyway. That is the best method to taper anyway. Gluing a full length of ply to the taper would create problems. The only wood I didn't use was the 1/8 ply nose doublers and one of the engine mount bearers and the wheel pants pieces.  The jury is still out on the printed motor mount. I have 4 other planes with the Brodak conversion mounts and they work very well. Measuring engine thrust is the simplest I've seen on a model plane. The thrust line runs through the screw on the weight box in the rear of the fuselage. Measure from that to the prop tips, piece of cake. Side thrust I measure from the wing trailing edge. Mr. Cunningham worried that a larger engine, .51, would be too heavy. No one says you can't trim the nose  by a 1/2 inch. The Stalker line of engines are very light also. I added only an ounce to the nose and it ruined the turn. Once removed it flys very well.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 11:22:24 AM by Perry Rose »
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Robertc

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2022, 09:12:53 PM »
Larry's Black MoBest had a Super Tiger 51 in it and it was his favorite.  On my third MoBest, I used the then new LA 46 and Larry and I agreed that would be a great combo.  Larry was impressed with my first electric C/L and would have gone that route had he lived longer. 
He would have been very pleased with your plane.

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Notes on building the Brodak Mo' Best kit.
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2022, 08:29:55 AM »
Great job on this Perry.  I sold a lot of MoBest kits when I produced it but never did get to finish one myself.  I am sure the BRODAK  kit was a great kit as well.

Mike


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