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Motorman · « **on:** January 13, 2014, 08:03:17 PM »

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jose modesto · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2014, 08:18:19 PM »

Not since I was 12. If you build for sport have at it. For real building use a jig.
The Hunt lost foam jig is great.
Jose Modesto

wwwarbird · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2014, 10:02:46 PM »

Quote from: jose modesto on January 13, 2014, 08:18:19 PM

Not since I was 12. For real building use a jig.

Jose Modesto

Really? "Real Building"? That's quite an insult Jose, well played.

This may not be from "Jose's All-knowing Bag of Tricks" book, but with patience, checking accuracy often as you progress, and a keen eye, it's entirely possible to build a perfectly straight wing without using a jig. Either that or it's just a miracle.

jose modesto · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2014, 05:45:12 AM »

You make my point as you are using a jig. First flat table.second shimming from table. You have a modified Tom Morris jig.
Thanks for posting your jig system
No insult given, I can assure you that all top scoring models are built in a jig for accuracy
I also stated that for sport building MM system is fine. For winning the NATS not a good way.

Jose Modesto

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2014, 07:31:57 AM »

I'm in for jigging...
I'd like to see one build a tapered wing withou a jig, or a Warren Truss....

Some wings have same size ribs, which makes it simpler.
Anyway, each to each's own...

Marcus

wwwarbird · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:45:31 AM »

Quote from: jose modesto on January 14, 2014, 05:45:12 AM

You make my point as you are using a jig. First flat table.second shimming from table. You have a modified Tom Morris jig.
Thanks for posting your jig system
No insult given, I can assure you that all top scoring models are built in a jig for accuracy
I also stated that for sport building MM system is fine. For winning the NATS not a good way.

Jose Modesto

Still didn't care much for the "real building" comment, but whatever. I guess I've never considered my conglomeration of stuff a jig, probably because it's not. I've only thought of it as a bunch of items that I've gradually gathered up that gets the job done. My idea of a jig has always been an elevated rod system, or the lost foam process.

Oh well, on contest day the biggest differences will still always be decided by whoever is holding the handle.

RC Storick · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2014, 12:14:43 PM »

Read slowly a jig is only as good as the wood. Yes it help get things straight but the power in the wood can overcome anything you glue straight. So your eyes are the final say. So no you don't absolutely need a jig to build a wing or anything for that fact , it all depends how critical your eyesight is.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2014, 04:56:11 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on January 14, 2014, 12:14:43 PM

Read slowly a jig is only as good as the wood. Yes it help get things straight but the power in the wood can overcome anything you glue straight. So your eyes are the final say. So no you don't absolutely need a jig to build a wing or anything for that fact , it all depends how critical your eyesight is.

Yep.

Will Hinton · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2014, 05:19:13 PM »

And following on Robert's last post, how critical you are in using your measuring instruments. I've built literally dozens of "real" stunt ships that flew as good as anything out there with only the shimming and measuring on a true flat surface technique.
Now, some "high ranking" stunt flyer is going to ask how I know they flew/fly that good and the reply is, I've had high ranking pilots fly them to evaluate them and got nothing but good responses.
It can be done without a jig, and a flat surface with weights and pins is not, in my opinion, a jig, that statement is just a cop-out.

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2014, 07:45:42 PM »

I love jigging............Jigged up three fat Salmon in Alaska last July.

Hopefully I can repeat this July.

As for wings........only way to go!

GA

PS: Fuses too.

phil c · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2014, 07:53:43 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on January 13, 2014, 08:03:17 PM

Does anyone else want to admit they don't use a jig of any kind to build wings? I just snap the ribs on the spars and pin the TE and LE on, eyeball everything then CA glue. Been getting by just fine without one.

MM

I build wings without a jig- big, fat, hollow ones out of foam with less than 2oz. of balsa in them.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2014, 09:17:42 PM »

Quote from: jose modesto on January 14, 2014, 05:45:12 AM

No insult given, I can assure you that all top scoring models are built in a jig for accuracy

Jose Modesto

ALL of them?
So you know this to be the case with all "top scoring" models, everywhere? This must be another excerpt from "Jose's All-knowing Bag of Tricks".

C'mon now Jose, we know that many "top scoring" models are built in jigs, but there's definitely a bunch of great flying ones that weren't.

jose modesto · « **Reply #12 on:** January 15, 2014, 05:55:35 AM »

W you keep forgetting that you use a jig to build your wing.
2013 NATS top five Paul ,Doug,Hunt,Derek and Kenny. ALL WINGS BUILT IN A JIG.
That is what I mean by top scoring models.
My reference is to 3 contest. NAT'S,Team Trials and World Champions
ALL TOP PLACING MODELS BUILT IN A JIG OF SOME TYPE that's the only way to compete at the highes level.
Sure you can luck out and build a wing with out a jig, that is straight but why,wen so many wing building jigs are available.
W even you use a jig.

Jose Modesto

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2014, 06:39:08 AM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on January 14, 2014, 12:14:43 PM

Read slowly a jig is only as good as the wood. Yes it help get things straight but the power in the wood can overcome anything you glue straight. So your eyes are the final say. So no you don't absolutely need a jig to build a wing or anything for that fact , it all depends how critical your eyesight is.

Small 90 degree blocks help when you glue the ribs. I can't stand pins, a leftover from the days of waiting for "cement" to dry.
I agree with Robert if your spars or jig aren't straight your just asking for it.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2014, 07:02:56 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on January 13, 2014, 08:03:17 PM

Does anyone else want to admit they don't use a jig of any kind to build wings? I just snap the ribs on the spars and pin the TE and LE on, eyeball everything then CA glue. Been getting by just fine without one.
MM

I'll admit that I build wings without jigs or gizmos.

And there's absolutely no reason they cannot be straight. As long as...

You have a totally flat surface, parts must have groves for alignment, machined shims of the such, many in fact, clothespin type clamps, weights, masking tape, rubber bands, great ink pens, suitable 360 degree lighting, 20/10 vision and a good measuring stick or two, plus an endless number of pins. Possibly a buddy also, that has more experience than you, building a wing without a jig, for that extra set of hands. Just to be sure.

Sounds like more work than just using a jig.

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2014, 07:15:54 AM »

Yeah, why spend money on a jig if one can build "freehand"?
Good luck....

Marcus

RC Storick · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2014, 07:45:17 AM »

Well there you go Jose has proved me wrong. If your a NATS top 10 pilot you don't need your eyes to make sure the wing is straight. You just depend on the Jig.

You can build it in a jig and lock it up and a week later it be warped. Jigs are holding devices and that's all. Your eyes are you last line of defense.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2014, 08:56:17 AM »

To me any building that uses pieces of material to keep the wing or fuselage straight on a flat building surface is jigging or a jig. I have build the Goldberg CL profile planes in my lap, using tape, pins and rubber bands to hold pieces together while I align them before gluing. As Robert says the wood sometimes needs tweeking to keep things straight. Building from kits it is hard to find straight spar material, so I install the spars with the warp opposing each other.

jose modesto · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2014, 09:28:01 AM »

Robert I fully agree that the eyes are the primary jig.no objection from me. A jig is just a tool the eyes are the key.
Jose Modesto

RC Storick · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2014, 11:15:05 AM »

This is a building forum. I have been building 45+ years so I have built a few planes. Have I won the NATS no. Does that mean my planes are not of Top 5 quality ? NO. Can I paint Yes. I try to pass on my experiences and every time I try to do so someone contradicts my opinions. It gets old quick. The guy who wins is not always flying the best plane, He has the most practice. If I say its black someone says its green.

You don't need a drill press to drill a hole but it helps. Tools are just that tools. The last line is your brain and you don't have to be a engineer, mechanic ,rocket scientist or anything else you just have to have the desire to do the task at hand and make everyone better than the last.

The forum is like sand you have to sift out the turds to get to the bone.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2014, 08:40:36 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on January 15, 2014, 10:51:24 AM

Just wanted to know if I was totally off base doing it free hand.

We have now been enlightened that you are waaay off base Motorman, and you will never be a "real builder" unless you use a jig, Jose says so.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2014, 08:50:16 PM »

Quote from: jose modesto on January 15, 2014, 05:55:35 AM

My reference is to 3 contest. NAT'S,Team Trials and World Champions

Jose Modesto

Ok Jose, I'll give you that, but you really need to open your eyes and step outside of your box. There are a heck of a lot of great flying, and potentially "top scoring" models in the rest of the world that were built by "real builders" without using a wing jig, but apparently you've never seen one.

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2014, 03:57:13 AM »

I'd like, if I may, to add something here.
Maybe Jose used a poorly chosen phrase to express his idea.
Real is something that exists, thus, if you build, you are a real builder.
Artists like Da Vinci and so painted without jigs, it was free hand, and they did amazing things that way.
I totally agree that eyesight is the ultimate "jig", and that is why my mother calls me everytime she hangs a new Picture or painting on the wall, cause I can tell if it's not "straight".
I just don't think that I, Marcus, could build a straight wing free hand. Some people can.
Even the little Ringmaster I've been building for fun, I "jigged" the wing, but that's me.
Robert is right about the wood "twisting", and Bob Hunt in his lost foam vídeo talks about checking the wing for warps all the time, and I used a lot of eyeballing while building, but the jig was a lot of help.
I didn't mean to be disrespectful, only I think I can't build without a jig.

Marcus