stunthanger.com
Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: Randy Powell on October 22, 2010, 11:26:21 AM
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Hi guys,
I'm well into the new plane. Tail section completed (and pretty light, surprisingly). Fuse box completed and the blocks are tacked on awaiting shaping (as plugs for molded top and bottom blocks) and the wing is started. This is something of a departure stylistically for me. Pretty much the same aerodynamics as the last plane but hopefully a lot lighter. Any interest in pictures? Not a lot different than previous stuff I've posted at this point so not innovative building stuff. I was going to just wait to take pics until it was done, but someone asked about it in email so I thought I'd ask here.
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Hi Randy....yes please post pics. Your builds are always inspireing and as a lone builder way out in the boonies, its always appreciated to be taken into anothers shop. So please....post away! I am looking forward to it all ready! H^^
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Your build pics are always interesting Randy, let's see'em! y1
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Here it is the 23rd and no pictures yet! mw~ I know there is the time zone difference. S?P Will be looking for the pics. H^^
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How could we not want to see your build pics? Post away!! H^^
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Hi guys,
I'm well into the new plane.
Post those pics. There is no such thing as a stunt flyer that doesn't want to see construction pics!!
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WO HOOO Randys gonna post some risque airplane pictures again,, snicker,, just love them bare balsa pictures,, come on Randy lets see em, I have been hearing about this new lowrider,, I want to see it!
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OK, I'll take some pics tomorrow.
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your such a tease Randy,, sheesh
I should talk, I haven posted any picts of my Electrajet either,,
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Another day waiting for pictures of naked airplane models. #^ #^ #^
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OK, here are a couple of pictures. The wing is just started. the stab, elevator and rudders are done pretty much except final sanding - one elevator needs to be peeled a bit more, but it's close. I was pretty proud of this. The overall weight of the stab, elevator and rudders with hinges and control horn is a shade over 3oz. That's the second set of elevators - I wasn't very happy with the first set. Not light enough. The fuse box is done as you see. Just started shaping the blocks (these are going to be forms for molded top and bottom blocks. A lot to do yet.
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Forgot to say: notice the little gap on the rudder? I left a 1/16" all the way around so I could get them perfectly aligned. The first set I build was cut to fit exactly, but that didn't really work out.
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OK, here are a couple of pictures. The wing is just started. the stab, elevator and rudders are done pretty much except final sanding - one elevator needs to be peeled a bit more, but it's close. I was pretty proud of this. The overall weight of the stab, elevator and rudders with hinges and control horn is a shade over 3oz. That's the second set of elevators - I wasn't very happy with the first set. Not light enough. The fuse box is done as you see. Just started shaping the blocks (these are going to be forms for molded top and bottom blocks. A lot to do yet.
Very interested in details of your wing construction.
I see the stack of rib strips, all the same cut with a template for the root rib ?
Length is trimmed from the tail at the TE right ?
LE and TE, 3-piece Tee section?
What about the spar ?
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Thanks for the pics, looks like you've got another super cool design in the works here Randy. The I-beam stuff is way over my head but it does make for cool looking airplanes. What do you mean by "peeling" the elevators more? I'm also curious, if the fuse blocks are just going to end up being mold bucks, is there a reason you don't just do the pink foam thing?
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OK, questions:
Allan first. Yes, the ribs are cut in a jig from the same template plate. The strip ribs are marked at the high point and that is maintained down the notional wing spar to maintain an accurate taper. So the ribs are actually cut at the front and rear to maintain the high point accurately. This wing is pretty severely tapered vertically. The leading and trailing edge are made from 3 pieces. A top and bottom piece and a sort of spacer tab for the jig to hold onto. It also allows a guide for the center of the section. Nice when you go to putting hinge slots (or in this case holes) in. The spar is put in after the ribs are in. It will become evident when I post pictures of it. The spar is an 1/8" x 1/4" piece of spruce or possible hard balsa with some CF laminated on(depending on what I decide when I get there) and either a warren truss section or with this one a sheer web. It sort of just grows as I go.
Warbird. the outboard elevator is just a bit thicker at the trailing edge than the inboard one. I need to thin it a bit. I'm using balsa for the bucks because I had this wood that wasn't really suitable for actually staying on a plane (like 10lb stock). Might as well use it for bucks. Besides, it's easier to get shaped right. I've used pink and gray foam for bucks but it usually requires some formers and more work than this. Here's another pic that sort of shows the taper on the elevator.
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Very cool Randy, looking forward to some more bone pic.
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This wing is pretty severely tapered vertically. The leading and trailing edge are made from 3 pieces. A top and bottom piece and a sort of spacer tab for the jig to hold onto. It also allows a guide for the center of the section. Nice when you go to putting hinge slots (or in this case holes) in.
The vertical taper, anything special you have to do for accuracy with that, or is it automatic as you trim the rib length ?
What will be your spar layout, perpendiculat to fuse, parrallel to LE, somewhere in between ? Do you think a curved spar would work with this, like if you were following an eliptical LE ?
I just realized something else about the rib strips. The airfoil shape would all be the same if the ribs were arranged straight. But with the truss layout, would there not be a different airfoil curve for the ribs angled in vs the ribs angled out ? I'm guessing its so small that you have a little fat built into the height of the rib strips and you sand it out with a long straight sanding bar. Or is it so small of a difference that it doesnt even show up ?
What weight balsa do you use for the rib strips ?
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Allan,
Hmmm. Well, on the truss ribs, the change in ellipse from rib to rib is pretty small. Once it's all built, a long sanding bar levels them. But the amount of material taken off is really small. It's more about making sure all the rib tops are flat and level to each other. When you set them up as a truss, the top of the rib is out of level to the glue surface of the sheeting. But it's not much. Maybe a degree or two. So just a couple of passes from a long sanding bar will level them. As far as taper accuracy, If you keep the mark on the rib in line (mark is at high point of the airfoil and marks the location of the spar), the taper happens all on it's own. Following the high point actually gives the spar a slight sweep. Not much. A degree or two. Interestingly, I built my last elliptical plane the same way and the spar, following the high point of the airfoil, ended up being elliptically curved. That was fun to frame up.
A note on balsa weights. The stuff I'm using for the ribs is medium hard 3/32". About 8lb. stock. It's been my experience that you can go with really light wood and make ribs (or other parts for that matter) that include a lot more wood to maintain structural integrity or use heavier, harder balsa and use much less wood. You will notice that a lot of my structures are pretty spidery. It's because if you use pretty hard wood, you can use a lot less of it. Wish I would have taken a picture of the stab frame before I sheeted it. Wasn't much there. Just enough to hold the sheeting up. The sheeting on the stab was really light (less than 3lb stock). I put some CF tow on the inside of the sheeting (truss pattern) to aid in torsional stability. Didn't take much and the stab is very, very torsionally stable. I figured with those rudders out there, it needed to be. Strangely, the elevators are just 3lb stock sheet half inch balsa with hardwood inserts for the control horn. The first set of elevators was framed up with an open rib structure, but there were pretty flexy and the things ended up heavier than the sheet version shown. I had to brace up the first version so much that whatever I gain in rigidity, I lost in overall weight.
Hey, sometimes simpler is better. And as I said, the overall weight of the tailplane with rudders, hinges and control horn was a fat 3oz. I'll take that.
I have a really weird idea for the structure of the flaps that I'm going to try. We'll see how that works out.
edit
Forgot to add, the hinges are Robart pin hinges. I like these. They are very easy to align and with the little drill guide that came with the pack, easy to center.
BTW, the rudders are made from 2 sheets of 3/16" sheet, tacked together and shaped then split and hogged out. There was just enough material left to insure that when the clear is painted on, it won't warp (happens when you get too zealous in thinning balsa). Both rudders together weighed less than a 1/4oz.
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I'm liking your wing structure. Gonna give it a try on my next project.
I used the Robart hinge points for the stab/elevator only as an experiment on a Magnum I built couple of years ago. Worked out OK. Later used them when I built a profile Stearman (D.Hutchinson design). I used some sections of Evergreen plastic tubing to build in sockets for the hinge points. That made it easy to finish first and install the hinges last. You can see the plastic tubes in the picture
Will be watching for your "weird flap desigh". The flaps I built for the RMD came out good but they were labor intensive. Looking for a better way.
Talking about weird, you naming this one "Toad" ???
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Allan,
No, not naming it "Toad". But they are all toads until they prove otherwise. The RMD was called the toad until I flew it, then it was called Baby. ;D
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Looking at the one picture of your wing structure, I have another question. On the LE I see that the middle spine of the Tee section provides a seat to locate front of rib strips vertically. But on the TE, you have the middle spine on outside in the jig blocks. So how do you locate the rear of the rib strips vertically ?
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Allan,
Well, it's hard to see in the picture. Both the leading edge and trailing edge have a pencil mark that runs the length of the piece that is a 1/16" below the top. I align the rib with the line. This gives a gap for the sheeting to slip into. As it turned out, I probably didn't need the line since the bottom of the rib aligns pretty well with the line created by the center piece. But I'm a belt AND suspenders sort of guy (as Justin Wilson used to say). I'll see if I can get a picture from the end of the wing. It's pretty obvious from that view.
No work last night. Came home to no power. Power came back on around 10:30pm. We've had some interesting weather the last few days.
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weather? is THAT what you call it over there, over here we call it one step short of a hurricane lol,,,
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Mark,
Yea, I came home last night to having to park my car at the end of the road, hike home, grab my chain saw and start cutting so I could drive my car to the driveway. 5 down trees across the road. Wind, rain, wind and power lines down or damaged. The power company was there about 10 minutes after me and were working on the line. Only took them about 5 hours to re-string the line and get the power back on. I'm hoping, with the wind howling outside the office right now that there will be power when I get home tonight. Joy!
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As a side note, this is one of those planes that I had the paint scheme picked out almost before I had it drawn. Should be fun. I hope to finish the wing by the end of the week and have it together into something that looks vaguely like a plane soon after. This is the first plane that I really did all the nit-picky work prior to starting construction of the airframe. Controls, leadout guide (a trick idea all in itself), landing gear blocks and covers, engine mounting and some other stuff all done before I cut the first piece of balsa. Probably why it seems to be going pretty fast.
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As a side note, this is one of those planes that I had the paint scheme picked out almost before I had it drawn. Should be fun.
Sounds really familiar Randy. A lot of my models are a direct result of having a paint scheme idea in mind and then deciding what plane I'd like to see it on. Or, wanting to use that really cool spinner on the shelf, or a certain set of wheels, or a certain engine, or...
Can't wait to see what you've got up your sleeve this time. y1
I'm never gonna run out of stuff to build. ;D
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Well, I haven't been out to the shop since Sunday. The weather stinks and I'm low on motivation.
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tsk tsk tsk,, sounds like its time for a call from Pat and I to get you motivated,, either that or my pictures of the Electrajet just put you in a funk,, lol,, VD~
ok, well I understand actually, I was all pumped to get the profile done so I could test fly before winter,, now this crap weather, well its hard to be motivated, though I am supposed to do a iron on covering demo for my RC club next tuesday, my plan was to cover the wing for the Electrajet,, hmm guess I better get motivated, unless somebody needs a wing covered that I can use for a demo? #^
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Mark,
OK, I spent a few hours out there today. Hope to spend some more tomorrow.
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Good Job Randy, did you watch the Huskie game while you were working? how did they fair.
I got a touch done on the profile,,
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Ha, ha, Mark. So, both the Huskies and the Cougars are doo-doo.
Allan,
Here are a couple of pics of the wing detail. This should make what I was saying above clear.
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Can you take a close up picture of the tip rib ? What is size of the spars ?
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I'll take a pic of the tip next time I go out. The spars are 1/4" x 1/8". I ended up deciding on some very hard balsa for this. I had cut out some spruce for this, but the balsa was MUCH lighter and nearly as strong.
Since this pic was taken, I have finished the spar. There are uprights located at the rib positions and vertical sheer web that runs up to the rib level that will connect with the leading edge sheeting. Pretty strong and fairly light method to do this. Next time, though, I think I'll put a more pronounced shelf on the inside of the leading edge and trailing edge. When I was putting in the ribs, using a guide to insure that where the rib connected to leading edge and trailing edge would give me a flush mount to the surface, it was a real pain getting them to be accurate. I think with a shelf, it would make it easier.
I like the building method because it very light and very easy to keep straight. For me, accuracy is more important than anything else so I tend to sacrifice everything else to accuracy and lightness.
Edit
I should add that this plane will be about 620 square inches. I'm (at this point anyway) hoping for a weight around 52-54oz. The original Slider weighed this and was a great flier. May end up following Will Hinton and refinishing that one. So far, it seems on track.
Go Boise State Broncos! (sort of have to root for them since my wife and sister-in-law graduated from there and my father-in-law taught there - besides, the Huskies stink).
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OK, the wing is ready for sheeting finally. So far, as it's sits in the jib, it weighs ~4oz. Should be about to come in under 10oz (it's waiting for sheeting and tips, slider and tip weight box). Started shaping the fuse blocks (they will be pried off and made into molds for molded top and bottom blocks).
Oh yea, just for Mark Scarborough, it's going to have an actual canopy.
Oops, almost forgot, Allan wanted a close up of the wing tip. This is the inboard end. The spar web here is a piece of basswood cut for the leadout sweep. Pardon my messiness. The CA bottle sort of blew up.
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Oh yea, just for Mark Scarborough, it's going to have an actual canopy.
ah gee, for me,, Randy how cool,, ;)
The COugs looked like they were going to,, ah,, well ok they could have,, sigh,,
well there is always the apple cup,,
Its lookin pretty sweet so far Randy,,
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Neato! y1
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Randy:
In the photo of the fuselage there is a blue plane shown. What brand of plane is it and from whom is it available?
As always, your work is simply impeccable. I find it simultaneously depressing and inspirational, mostly the latter. Thank you for the photos.
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Mark,
Well, I have hopes that the doggies will run the rest of the table and finally make a bowl. But hey, the Broncos look good, anyway.
Peter,
That is an ancient Tatone Razorplane. I've had that thing since I was in high school. Uses old double edged razor blades. I've thought of replacing it several times, but then don't since it works really well. As double edged razor blades are starting to get harder to find (I get them from a local drug store) I may have to replace it eventually.
I should note that you may notice that the sheer web is probably 10 different colors. I used scrap 1/16" balsa and choose the pieces more for hardness than color. So I ended up with all kinds of color variation. Looks sort of weird to me, but the stuff is all about the same hardness. Also, you may note that there is one patch that is sort of green colored. That's some 1/64" plywood that is on both sides of the sheer web. It's where the gear leg mount is located. I used a surface mount gear block (white oak, weirdly) and it has a sort of sloping leg on the inside that has the anchor for the gear leg near the top of the wing. This allows a very long gear leg (about 2") and a lot of leverage to protect the area in the case of a hard landing.
Just need to go over the wing once more with a long "T" block sanding bar to insure all is level (though it's pretty close now) and I can start sheeting the wing. This will probably wait until I have the fuse blocks done, popped off and set up as mold bucks. One thing I will say is those are the absolute smoothest controls I've ever built. If I can get the stinking hinges aligned right, it should have very fluid feel.
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Randy:
Thank you for the information about the plane. I suspect I won't find one for sale any time soon.
You might well be aware of this source, but A2Z Corp - - http://www.a2zcorp.us (http://www.a2zcorp.us) - - sells two different types of double edge razor blades. One brand, Candidius, is carbon steel. They are thin and very sharp. The other is an extra thick double edge blade that is sold for use in a Solingen razor plane.
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Hi Ty,
It's built in place You have to be careful not to press on the thing when attaching it to the ribs since it can pull the rib down and accurately cut rib strips are important. I used a pretty hard piece of 1/8" x 1/4" balsa for the spar cap, some upright pieces of the same material between the ribstrips for support and then the sheer web. Pretty light overall. I expect the wing (about 620 square inches) to come in well under 10oz.
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The build is looking great. The pane looks just like the one I have in the shop. Folks got one like it off a TV ad back in the early 50's. Have lost count of how many blades have went thru it. I also found my book from Tom Morris that I got at the last NATS I attended. Looks like you and him are on the same wave length as far as construction of the wing. Even tho he says it takes little time, it is time consuming building a straight wing with that construction method. In one of the articles he states he cuts ribs and peices for several hours before ever setting up the jig. In one pic he shows 10 wings that were made in one day. Anyway, keep the pictures coming. H^^
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Doc,
Yea, I have a number of jigs to cut parts. Makes it go faster and is more accurate. But it is still a method that takes some time. The upside is, it always comes out straight and is generally light.
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Well I may be doing that construction method soon. Reorganizing the shop I found the work bench I assembled before moving stuff in. Would you beleive I found 5 brand new engines I don't remember buying. Also plans that were misplaced. Hope I live long enough to get the shop done. n~
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Doc,
Yea, I look at all the planes I want to build and fly and sometimes wonder if I'll live long enough to get to half of them.
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Hey Randy, It looks great. I love seeing the building part as well as the finished model. I have a question on the wing. The formers that are at an angle are they a different shape then the straight formers in the wing ?
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Jim,
If you are talking about the wing, then all the ribs are from the same template. If you scan back in the thread, you'll see that they are all marked at the high point and cut from the front and the back to maintain taper.
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Well, the wing is mostly done. Man, that's a lot of work. But I weighted just before taking the last picture (and putting it back into the jig) and it's right at 8.5oz, so I'm not complaining. Just keep the tip weight down and I could be in business.
So, here's a couple of pics. the first is the top done, the second the bottom before sheeting and the last with it almost done. Just a few cap strips to go and the tips.
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Lookin' good! y1
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Just gotta love those geodetic structures. They are so beautiful. Thanks for taking the time to share your build with us. H^^
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One minor note. You may notice in the second picture the trailing edge sheer web. I found that it's a lot easier to cut the vertical sheer web then cap it with balsa on both sides prior to installing. There's a 1/16" square cap on the top and bottom of the vertical grain sheer web. Makes it a LOT easier to install prior to the trailing edge sheet being installed. A LOT.
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What are the pros and cons of the geodetic rib layout versus standard parrallel rib layout.
Lighter, if so how much might you save on a wing this size ?
I've heard some claim more torsional rigidity, and I can see that might be the case before the wing is covered. But once the covering is applied to any wing, thats where most of the torsional strength comes from.
It looks like its extra work and I'm just wondering if its worth it. I like the appearance for a modern ship, but prefer the standard layout for classics.
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Allan,
I've built them both ways. I can say that if you cap the ribs to provide a T frame, then the torsional stability is a lot higher with the Warren Truss layout than with parallel ribs. Resistance to the tip moving is much higher. The covering will give a certain amount of rigidity, but this layout is a lot more stable structurally. Particularly with the box layout with the main spar and trailing edge. And the way I build wings, it's no more difficult to build this way than with parallel rib layout.
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Randy, forgive me if this is a silly question but why are there double ribs at the wings tips?
Thanks.
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8) NEAT as usual Randy!
I can smell the wood of that wing... <=
Keep those pictures coming...
Regards,
Claudio.
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Chris,
Only on one wing tip. The wing has about 5/8" asymmetry.
Claudio,
Yea, this plane looks very different from what I've been doing, but the numbers are just a progression of the design series I've been working on for the past few years. Different look, but really an evolution of the same plane.
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Just noticed the twin rudders on the stab ... going for the "Stunt Machine" aesthetics, Randy? :)
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Mike,
Not particularly, though I like that plane. This was more in keeping with the overall look of a '59 El Camino low rider. It will be clearer when the rest of it is together.
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This was more in keeping with the overall look of a '59 El Camino low rider.
That sounds pretty cool, too. :)
Looking forward to seeing how this one comes along!
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Mike,
Not particularly, though I like that plane. This was more in keeping with the overall look of a '59 El Camino low rider. It will be clearer when the rest of it is together.
'Cept that's a '63 or '64 in the pic. ;D S?P ;D
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Faird not, Wayne, it's a 59. I have a friend with one. We've talked endlessly about finding parts. His is about half done because he wanted to use original parts and they are not easy to find. That little shade on the back window notoriously rust out. The 1960 is similar, but doesn't have the "brows" over the headlights. Here's a pic of a 1960, 1963 and a 1964. The Impala version of the 1963 was once thought of as the ultimate low rider car. I couldn't find a decent pic of the 1963, so this is a pic of a 1963 convertable. sigh...
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OK, here's a pic of the simi-completed wing. It's done, just rough sanded on the tips and rough shaped on the leading edge and trailing edge. Lot more sanding to do there.
The wing is now in the fuse, sort of. Have to replace the cut out and do some fidgeting, but it's largely in.
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Randy....It's a '60 El Camino. The '59's had "cat's eye" tail lights and a smooth arc in the "fins" over the tail lights. I've got some seat time in a '59. H^^ Steve
PS: Your plane is looking cool, so far...keep up the good work.
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Oops that's right, no fins on the '63 and the '64 was the first year of the smaller car. I got faked out by the rear fender sides. Steve is actually correct, '60 had a defined kink in the middle of the fin like in your pic and '59 was a constant radius end to end with the "cat-eye" lights. I've always thought a fire engine red low riding Pro-Street '59 Camino would be a totally bad a__ ride. y1
Let's get back to the plane-she's lookin' good! ;D
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That's interesting. The pic came from a Chevy club site and was marked 59. But you're right. As I said, the 59 had the "eyebrows" over the headlights on the front. I suppose if it was a front view, I would have picked that up. The rear had the fins without the break. According to the classic Chev site I was looking at, the change over came mid year, so I suppose they are both 59s, but the point is good.
By the want, the wing, as it sites there in the last picture, came in right at 9.4oz. That's about .6oz under budget which is pretty cool. I may have to build another tail. The current one with stab, elevator and rudders already on along with hinges and horn is about 3.5oz. It's quite straight, but I imagine I could probably know as much a half ounce off that if I took another go. We'll see. I had hoped (probably foolishly) that I could get the tail under 2.75oz. It's a big tail.
This plane needs to come in in the 52-55oz range to be a good flier. So far, I'm in the park, but I can't have any heavy components. Particularly the tailplane. I don't want to be adding lead to the nose.
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Chris,
Only on one wing tip. The wing has about 5/8" asymmetry.
Thanks for the reply mate but I am referring to 'ribs' not tips here.
You have two sets of ribs parallel on the jigged wings extremity (see attached pic).
I assume that this for strength?
Cheers.
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Hi Chris,
Not really. The wing has 5/8" asymmetry. The extra rib is on the inboard side only and is just extending the wing 5/8". I suppose I could have just increased the rib spacing a bit all they way down the wing and eliminated the extra rib, but I wanted to keep both wings with the same rib layout. Also kept the airfoil consistent from the inboard side to the outboard.
Hope that's clear.
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Hi Chris,
Not really. The wing has 5/8" asymmetry. The extra rib is on the inboard side only and is just extending the wing 5/8". I suppose I could have just increased the rib spacing a bit all they way down the wing and eliminated the extra rib, but I wanted to keep both wings with the same rib layout. Also kept the airfoil consistent from the inboard side to the outboard.
Hope that's clear.
Very clear now, thanks.
You are a fussy builder mate but at least you will never confuse which is outboard and which is inboard with this method!
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Randy...The double ribs would be great if you are sheeting the last bay and tips...but only if you do both ends! LL~
I do like the idea of sheeting the last bay on each tip to improve torsional stiffys. %^ I also like the 5/8" wing assymetry.
Regarding your heavy tailplane...less balsa helps, usually. And I keep thinking that all that iron in the control horn is something that needs a fresh approach. There just has to be a way to do this job with carbon fiber...at least on the elevators, if not the flaps. How about a carbon tube (or flat plate) to connect the two elevators, with a carbon lever epoxied on? ~> Steve
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Steve,
I personally wouldn't like the epoxy idea; we often allow our ships to set on hot tarmac and the temp can really get a boost like that. Epoxy softens with heat, and I'd be leery of that possibility under many summer conditions. With the stress our horns undergo, that would seem a bit of a gamble to me. Whadayathink?
Will
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That's interesting. The pic came from a Chevy club site and was marked 59. But you're right. As I said, the 59 had the "eyebrows" over the headlights on the front. I suppose if it was a front view, I would have picked that up. The rear had the fins without the break. According to the classic Chev site I was looking at, the change over came mid year, so I suppose they are both 59s, but the point is good.
By the want, the wing, as it sites there in the last picture, came in right at 9.4oz. That's about .6oz under budget which is pretty cool. I may have to build another tail. The current one with stab, elevator and rudders already on along with hinges and horn is about 3.5oz. It's quite straight, but I imagine I could probably know as much a half ounce off that if I took another go. We'll see. I had hoped (probably foolishly) that I could get the tail under 2.75oz. It's a big tail.
This plane needs to come in in the 52-55oz range to be a good flier. So far, I'm in the park, but I can't have any heavy components. Particularly the tailplane. I don't want to be adding lead to the nose.
Hey Randy:
Did you ever see the custom Chey that was a combination of the 57, 58, & 59 models. Really cool. I might have saved the pics somewhere if you've never seen it.
52-55 oz.
Thats a big hurdle..
What's the area and power on this one ?
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Will, my latest stunter uses two layers of 1/16 ply forming a horn that is also cut with the shape of the elevator airfoil, epoxied onto the end of th surface with CF pins locking it. Its integral to the surface and SOLID. The two halves are connected with a standard wire but no horn on it.
sorry for stealin the thread Randy, i dig the new concept,, now get it finished,, you know you cant go to work in this weather,, just stay home and build,, well assuming you still have power?
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Mark, I would be comfortable with that. The pins are what makes me that way, and also, the surface you have used for the epoxy. My lack of comfort would be with a horn relying on the epoxy holding it to a round, tubular surface that experiences twisting forces with no pins, or other locking . (I'm a pansy.)
Have a great Thanksgiving. In fact, everyone else, too!!
Will
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Faird not, Wayne, it's a 59. I have a friend with one. We've talked endlessly about finding parts. His is about half done because he wanted to use original parts and they are not easy to find. That little shade on the back window notoriously rust out. The 1960 is similar, but doesn't have the "brows" over the headlights. Here's a pic of a 1960, 1963 and a 1964. The Impala version of the 1963 was once thought of as the ultimate low rider car. I couldn't find a decent pic of the 1963, so this is a pic of a 1963 convertable. sigh...
Sorry guys, but that's a 60 El Camino, the 59 had the teardrop tail lights and the 60 had the round ones. They carried the same styling ques as their parent vehicles.
Now the tricky ones are the '57 and '58 Rancheros, both had the 57's round tail lights but their respective year's front clip. You couldn't tell then apart from the rear.
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Yep, look backwards a few replies Randy-we got'er sussed a day or two ago. y1
I'm checkin' out the airplane now, this is gonna be a cool one. ;D
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Yep, look backwards a few replies Randy-we got'er sussed a day or two ago. y1
I'm checkin' out the airplane now, this is gonna be a cool one. ;D
Dang, how'd I miss that!? But I supplied pictures!!!
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Well, it's in almost one piece. Having a dilemma figuring out the bottom block and how to get the pipe to fit. Should have it sorted out tomorrow. It's nitpicking details right now.
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Very slick Randy!!! Is that drawing I see on the wall the sketch for this plane?
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That is a sharp looking tail.. Are the wheel pants going to match the shape of the rudderlets ?
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The plan on the wall is an early rendition. I've redrawn the wheelpants about six times since then. The current shape is similar to the rudders with a quirk.
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The plan on the wall is an early rendition. I've redrawn the wheelpants about six times since then. The current shape is similar to the rudders with a quirk.
Hey that sounds cool.
Early on you mentioned "weird flap design". Any pictures on that yet ?
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Allan,
Not built yet. I had planned to put a hatch on the bottom block, but have decided to just cut a hole and put in vents. I'm a bit paranoid about weight. The less stuff glued on, the better.
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Seems like I spent half the day working on two issues. Trying to get the canopy and cockpit worked out (that one is mostly solved) and figuring out how I'm going to get the pipe in and out without a hatch. Still working on that one, but I'll figure it out eventually.
I don't want the hatch because I'm trying to keep the weight down. It's pretty light right now and I'd like to keep it that way. Looks pretty cool so far.
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Seems like I spent half the day working on two issues. Trying to get the canopy and cockpit worked out (that one is mostly solved) and figuring out how I'm going to get the pipe in and out without a hatch. Still working on that one, but I'll figure it out eventually.
I don't want the hatch because I'm trying to keep the weight down. It's pretty light right now and I'd like to keep it that way. Looks pretty cool so far.
Randy, here's how I did mine without a hatch. The tunnel was 1/64th plywood just pressed layed in place and since 1/64th plywood is very flexible, and it gave a very round pipe tunnel. If I remember right, I think it added about 1 or 2 ounces of weight. The pipe gets a lot of cooling, and it's very easy to get it in and out of the plane.
Edit: I glued it in with white glue and pinned it down. After that, I capped it with 1/4 x 1/4 balsa strip, and just rounded the edges.
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Randy,
I like it alot, but I think you missed a chance to carry the theme,, you needed to sculpt a couple tail fin strakes to tie the top block into the horizantal stab , slightly uncercut, and maybe a couple "blue dot" LEDs at the end of the fins to carry the theme. I hope you have a chain steering wheel for it too?
all kidding aside, its looking lean,, I like it
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I like it too. Awaiting more pics of the finishing, and flight reports. H^^
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Matt,
I want the pipe enclosed for cooling and coolness reasons ;D
Mark,
I have an idea for the pipe tunnel that should enhance the lowness. Right now, I'm getting ready to dye the canopy.
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OK, canopy died and the base cockpit is complete (or as complete as it will get - not much of a cockpit guy). I even got the little Pete's Pilots pilot painted. He is definitely a lowrider. Hmm, maybe hydraulics for the gear...
The bottom block is still in flux. I came up with an idea, but haven't decided yet what I really want to do. In the mean time, I'll get the flaps built and get the fairings on and complete the cockpit and put on the canopy. Can even do the gear before I have to decide. Maybe I'll have an epiphany or inspiration or something.
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I'm sorry to hear about your canopy.
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"OK, canopy died and the base cockpit is complete (or as complete as it will get - not much of a cockpit guy). I even got the little Pete's Pilots pilot painted. He is definitely a lowrider. Hmm, maybe hydraulics for the gear..."
Howard's right. It makes me very sad to hear of this stragedy (sic). LL~ Steve
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That was my first thought too, especially since he dedicated having a pilot and cockpit especially for my sake,, then to hear it died,, what a travesty, I feel slighted,, slightly,,
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Geez, one typo and it brings Howard out of hibernation. OK, dyed not died. (darned auto correct spell checker anyway)
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I'm sorry to hear about your canopy.
Heh-heh. ;D
Lookin' good Randy, definitely got that 60's Stunt era look. y1
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Ok, I think I have the bottom block worked out. And it will be a lot lighter than my original idea, though not as high on the cool scale. Hey, you have to draw a line somewhere.
I'm also in the process of finishing the cockpit. Silkspan is in and should be able to slop filler in tomorrow, sand it out and put the base paint down. Just need to figure out what color.
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Paint it the same color as the Slider. That way, you'll be able to fix the hole in the Slider wing at the same time, and have two good bullets. H^^ Steve
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Geez, one typo and it brings Howard out of hibernation. OK, dyed not died. (darned auto correct spell checker anyway)
Sounds like Howard. I blame my mistakes on the keyboard. LL~ LL~ Also no matter how many times I proof read a post, I still miss something. H^^
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Steve,
Hey, it's a low rider. I need to come up with a low rider paint scheme. I have some ideas. Orange may be involved (which should make Howard happy).
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dude, JEW NEED SUM GOLD LEAF MAN,,,, SOME LACE PANELS,, AND SOME NICE FAT PINSTRIPES
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Mark,
Well, I found a color I want to use. One of those; a car drives by and you go: oh, oh, I want that color. Unfortunately, the car was a 2010 and the car company hasn't release the color code yet. Now, if I had a car like that and had an accident and was going to fix it, I'm told that the body shop I went to could get the paint (though hey probably have to sign in blood or something for it), but my local paint shop says they can't mix the color yet. Maybe mid-January. Sigh...
So, I'll have to think of something else. Maybe something restrained. I've never much liked lace paint jobs (though I liked your fishnet job). I'll come up with something.
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I'm picturing something in my mind, reminiscent of Tom Wardens purple Minado. I was told that it had over 7 differnt shades of purple on it. It was so low rider..... y1
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Randy,
if you can get the factory paint code, I can get the mixing formula,, I got people ya know
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Mark,
That's the problem. they don't publish the color number. If I can find an actual car, I'll look on the door.
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Lace paint should be restricted to wheel pants. "Lace Panties" emblazened on the side (PTG's Diva said "Hot Pants", so why not?). It would go great with some "wide whites". And it would be cute to make the LG with two ride heights...but getting them to bounce it up and down may be counter-productive. LL~ Steve
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Randy...The double ribs would be great if you are sheeting the last bay and tips...but only if you do both ends! LL~
I do like the idea of sheeting the last bay on each tip to improve torsional stiffys. %^ I also like the 5/8" wing assymetry.
Hi.
Sheeting the tip bays really ads stiffness and same happens when tip blocks are glued in place. Everyone must have noticed it.
But to me it means that cap strips are not doing their work properly. This is a handicap in basically all designs with a traditional construction. The butt-joint between capstrip end and the edge of D-box sheet is just not strong enough.
In a stunt plane it makes not much difference because covering strenghtens the joint. But if you are really into optimizing the structure, like we do in free flight, the capstrips should be firmly recessed (or overlapped when using carbon caps) into D-box.
So much could be done! L
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Lauri,
Well, you may notice that the cap strips on this wing are pretty wide. About 3/8". Part of the reason was to give more glue surface where it meets the leading edge sheeting. Also, there is a lip where the sheer web connects to the leading edge sheeting and the cap strip rests on this. It's not much, but give a pretty firm footing for the cap strip. A locking joint would be better, but I'm not sure how much more you would get versus a lot more work. This wing complete but without flaps weighs about 9.25oz. I don't know I could build this wing much lighter unless I ran into a stash of 3lb balsa sheet.
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Thanks for explanation, Randy. I did not notice that from the pictures. I wasn't really pointing at your wing, just commenting to what Steve said.
If the tip makes too much work, it's not a harmonic construction. L
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Yes. I was concerned about weight and so tried to figure out ways that would maintain strength but reduce the amount of wood used. It's one of the reasons the tips are hogged out half inch sheet wood (hollowed in the middle) and have the filler pieces at the leading and trailing end. Less work but some reinforcement for the tip end. Not perfect, but like a lot of things, a compromise between using less wood and maintaining some level of structural rigidity.
The stab and rudders were interesting in the same way. The stab is built up with a core of 3/8" balsa and geodetic rib layout with the lightest 1/16" sheet I had. The elevators are just half inch sheet (some 3lb stock I had stashed away). I tried building them the same way the stab was built, but the sheet units were lighter and at least as rigid, so I stuck with them. the rudders are made from two sheets of 3/16" hard sheet balsa that was hollowed out pretty thin and then glued together. This gave me very light units that are somewhat damage resistant.
Fun stuff picking out wood for various components.
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Mark,
That's the problem. they don't publish the color number. If I can find an actual car, I'll look on the door.
Actually, you shouldn't even need the code, that will be harder for you to find. Check an auto dealership brochure or whatever you need to get the proper, exact, name of the color, and then most reputable paint vendors should be able to look it up. Good chance it'll be found in a PPG list.
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My PPG Automotive Paint store has books of all colors. If you don't know the number just look for the color you like. Didn't realize there was so many shades of Green. H^^
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It's been pointed out to me that I was in error. The color is a 2011 color and so not yet in the books. On top of that, it's a tri-color paint and that would mean a base color, a tint and an overcoat to get the exact color. So, not wanting to put 3 full coats of paint on it and increase the all up weight, I am scanning for a similar color. That should be fun.
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Randy, I'm looking forward to the finished product!
I'll be honest, the 59 Chevy I've always considered absolutely butt ugly. But 51 years later, the Ranchero version has a certain elegance about it. It's still outrageous and I like your style, drawing inspiration from it.
Here's another subject I'll suggest to you: Buick Riviera. Of course! I'm referring to the 1971 boat tailed version. 8)
I also found another interesting one, the Thunderbird "Silver".. ;D
Keep up the great work, I'm one of the people building vicariously through you.
L.
"There's a great power in words, if you don't hitch too many of them together." -Josh Billings
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Larry,
I'm talking 50 Chev El Camino. ;D
Oh well, tastes vary. Hope I get to work on it this weekend. Busy time.
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Got the cockpit painted tonight (at least the base color and head rest). Try to finish that up tomorrow. The bottom black and pipe area is just about done. I had an idea that seems to be working out OK, so hopefully I can get that ground off tomorrow and get ready to glue on the canopy. When that's done, I'll shoot some pictures.
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#^
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Couple of notes. This is what happens when you are designing your own stuff. I thought I had the bottom block deep enough to handle a Randy Smith pipe I intend to use. It's pretty big around so when I was drawing the thing, I made what I thought was enough allowance for it. Great. Well, when I actually carved the plug for the molded bottom block, turned out it was about 3/16" of an inch too short. In the end I just added a bit of material to the block and moved on. So the actual plane is about 3/16" taller in the fuse that the plan called for. Hey, live and learn. It's didn't cost me much in weight.
Second thing. I thought I had a good method of getting the pipe in and out. But again, it turned out not to work. So, the choices were do a hatch ala Ted Fancher's Special edition. I didn't like that idea due to weight issues. A lot of hardware is needed to make that sort of system work and while it isn't much, it's weight I just didn't want to add. The next was to just cut a gigantic hole in the bottom. I didn't really like that all that much either. In the end, it's sort of what I did, but with a sort of flare that went with the overall design concept. When I get some pictures up, you can see what I did. But I have to say, I've never lined an opening for a pipe tunnel with plywood and built up a fillet like that before. Looks kinda cool.
Go Huskies!!
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Go Huskies!!
Grumble grumble,,
well at least they decided to keep Wulff for another year,, just wait! next year is gonna be big!
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>>well at least they decided to keep Wulff for another year,, just wait! next year is gonna be big!<<
Well, at least next year will be better. Wulff is starting to get what he wants in there. Better effort than I've seen from them this year. Should be a more interesting Apple Cup next year. The Huskies played great and atrocious in turns. A brilliant play followed by two penalties and a punt. But Polk put up 280 yards. That's not bad.
Though I have to say that was the worst officiating crew in living memory. I mean, 20 minutes to determine ball placement with 30 seconds left. And it was 25° out there. Sheesh!
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To that I will not disagree,, bad calls both ways though,, so I cant use that as an excuse,,, Thank god for DVRs so I didnt have to sit and wait, and wait ,,,,
Cougs played the same way, some outstanding efforts, followed by well,,, not so outstanding efforts.
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Mark,
Well, for a reward, the Huskies get to go play Nebraska again in the Holiday Bowl. Let's see, they lost by like 4 touchdowns last time...
And they get to play them in Nebraska again next year. Joy!
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Randy, now back to the color of the new plane. Why cover up all that gorgeous structure? Do it in clear. S?P H^^
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Hey John, it's a low rider. Needs to be metallic, pin stripes, pearl, lace, something....
I just need to come up with the rest of the cockpit.
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Just have the cockpit filled with smoke. :##
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Randy, how 'bout a wood steering wheel, vac gauge, tach & speedo in silver background? Leather seat, floor shift, all that good stuff.
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Don't f'get the "nekker's nob", aka "suicide knob"! LL~ Steve
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I went a bit simpler. Just not that much room in there. I'm lousy with cockpits. Sigh...
Here it is, more or less. It's still just roughed in, but you get the idea.
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Looks good to me. y1 What kind of filler is the blue stuff?
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Wayne,
It's SuperFil. A very light epoxy filer. Sands pretty easy.
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I like the bubble canopy Stunt Machine look. Should look great in the air! y1
Get a 25/0 brush and learn to pin stripe. It ain't that hard, really, at least not as small as the scale would be on that model airplane.. Of course it is hard to do it on a $20,000 paint job.
Of course, there are plenty of Pin Striping decals of the style used in the '50s available.
Bill
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I went a bit simpler. Just not that much room in there. I'm lousy with cockpits. Sigh...
Here it is, more or less. It's still just roughed in, but you get the idea.
Got a definite Gene Schaeffer feel to it. You better start cracking some HARD corners real close to the ground. Also, I expect to see some kickin figure eights with the engine off.
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I'm still trying to find the right font for the name and number. I'll figure it out eventually. There was no real intention to look like a Gene Shafer plane. Just a low rider. I ended up with some blushing on the inside of the canopy. Probably from some slow CA I used to glue on some trim. Sigh... Oh well. It's not going to be a 20 pointer anyway. The goal with this plane is for it to be light and slick looking in the air.
It's about 600" inches with a RO-Jett 65 in the nose. But may go with something else.
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Very slick Randy, as usual! How's the weight coming in at this point?
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(snip)There was no real intention to look like a Gene Shafer plane. (snip)
Subliminal suggestion.............
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Actually, Randy, that has a very distinctive Burt Rutan look to it. I like it a lot.
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I dont know, but to me it has a distinct Randy Powell look ,,
I like the pipe outlet, classy , retro, and sexy,,
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I decided the scoop on the bottom what not right so I hopefully fixed it. The cowl is shaped and the flaps are underway. Get that done and I can do the wheelpants.
Matt,
I haven't weighed it since I hung it from the nose. I'll do that after I finish up the pieces.
It's coming along
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I decided the scoop on the bottom what not right so I hopefully fixed it.
I was wondering about the scoop thingie under there, looked really fragile.
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Wayne,
Not really, but the entry was goof up a bit. I extended it forward and reworked it a bit. Looks better and I didn't add any significant weight. Looks more like it belongs there now. I'll post some pictures later. The cowl is tack glued on the nose and rough shaped so you can get the idea.
I hate posting pictures when I slathered on some kind of filler. It looks bad. I tend to do that then grind off 95% of it. I hate having to go back in fill low spots. I'd rather build it up well past the needs then grind back. Call me weird.
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Dude,,,
Your weird!
hey you said to,, and NO I wont invite you to say ANYTHING about me,, especially since I am a Coug fan,,
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>>especially since I am a Coug fan<<
'nuff said.
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That's not weird Randy, that's how you do it. That's why they call it filler. :## ;D
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Wayne,
Well, I certainly have a large pile of filler dust on the floor.
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;D S?P ;D H^^
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Having "Toad" withdrawals here, what's the latest Randy?
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Wayne, I'll take some more pics tomorrow. I have the flaps about half done, finished hogging out the cowl (major pain) and finally got the little scoopy thing on the bottom reworked and looking decent. Tomorrow I can hopefully finish up the flaps (I, of course, made a design change at the last minute with them). then I can take if off the hanger and get the engine installed and get the cowl attachments in. Then it's off to the landing gear (that should be interesting) and I can start finishing.
There you go. I even worked on it today during the Husky basketball game. That's dedication.
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There you go. I even worked on it today during the Husky basketball game. That's dedication.
dedication? really? Randy its only the Huskies basketball, I mean really ,, its not like its the Cougs basketball ,, now then that would be dedication, besides, dont you have a tv in the shop?
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Mark,
Well, it was on in the background. Don't really have to watch since they were playing USF. It was a blowout.
Here are a couple of pics where it's at now. Didn't have the juice to finish the outboard flap. May have to trash it anyway since it's go a wicked bow in it. If I can't get it to come out, I'll just dump it and build another. I heated it up and clamped it straight. I'll look tomorrow. If it's still bowed, I'll just dump it and build another. Not a big deal.
The cowl is just roughed out and taped to the fuse to give an idea. I have a couple of things to fix, but overall, it's not bad.
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Hi Randy,
Looking real good (as usual!) and I can't wait to see the paint scheme you come up with. ;D I would almost be willing to come out there and pin stripe it for you!
Just in case anyone else missed it, what are the specs (WS, etc.) and powertrain?
Keep on keepin' on!
Bill
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Bill,
Thanks. Wingspan is, hmmm, I don't remember, but it's right on 610 square inches. If I can keep my finger off the paint trigger, should come in around 54oz or so. Power is a RO-Jett 65. I haven't really decided on a color scheme yet. If I can get the paint I want, then I have the scheme. If not, I'll come up with something else.
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Looking good! I normally don't care much for the fish mouth cowls, but I like this one with the round forward section and inlet. It must have been kind of a trick to get shaped and fitted around the engine.
I've been scratching my head for a cowl idea for an upcoming project on my list, and this might be it. Did you start with a big solid block, or? Can we see some pics of the inside for some clues on how you made it?
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Bill,
Thanks. Wingspan is, hmmm, I don't remember, but it's right on 610 square inches. If I can keep my finger off the paint trigger, should come in around 54oz or so. Power is a RO-Jett 65. I haven't really decided on a color scheme yet. If I can get the paint I want, then I have the scheme. If not, I'll come up with something else.
Still no luck on a paint code? I wonder what happens when someone has to have some body work done.......
Go light on the paint, Grasshopper! LL~
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Wayne,
It's carved from a 2"x3"x12" block of balsa. Normally, I piece them together, but this one I happened to have a suitable block. The inside is hollowed out generally, but I haven't fitted it to the engine or gotten the hold downs installed (that part is still under consideration). I'll be sure to take a pic of the inside when it's done. Not much to see right now except a hole. I'm also considering a remote plug connection. It's a very deep cowl and I'm not sure a regular plug jack is going to reach the engine. We'll see.
Bill,
Yea, that's my thought.
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Thanks Randy. Staying tuned... y1
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Randy,
call me, I have some numbers for you H^^
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Well, the flap is toast so I started framing up another. That's OK. Should be able to whip a new one out in a day or so.
Mark, I'll give you a call tomorrow night. Thanks.
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Well, the flap is toast so I started framing up another. That's OK. Should be able to whip a new one out in a day or so.
Mark, I'll give you a call tomorrow night. Thanks.
Sounds like the paint code mystery is solved! Hip, Hip, Hooray! LL~
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Bill,
Possibly. Mark provided the codes (Thanks Mark!!), but in some ways it more complicated. I'm considering the options and will decide the direction. I think Mark's Avenger paint scheme was extremely cool and perhaps that is driving the idea of a darker base color.
Right now, I think I'll just paint it white, put an AMA number on and go flying. Or not.
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Bill,
(snip)
Right now, I think I'll just paint it white, put an AMA number on and go flying. Or not.
Hi Randy,
LOL!!!!!!!! I know that ain't gonna happen, no way, no how.
Bill
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What Bill said.
Will
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Ever seen Jackson Pollock's No.1 ? Could end up like that. He, he.
Truth is, I'm finally starting to form an idea. The color I'd hoped to use is probably going to be too complicated to use, but I came up with a backup plan.
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Monokote huh? ;D
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Hey, you never know.
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Hey, you never know.
Correct, but I'm bettin' not. ;D
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Randy,, its sure no more complicated than a certain lollipop green novi I seem to recall,,
In anycase, glad I could come up with the formula, If I were closer, I could help your paint guy combine the two into a single coat that would look close,, Still think you should go for it, heck whats a couple ounces on that light airframe you have going, LL~ LL~
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Randy, are you trying to come up with some kind of metalic color? If so ,,,what?
John
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Hi John,
I was originally looking for a yellow metallic. Ford Mark and I were talking about Ford yellow blaze metallic. But it's a three stage color and would probably require too many coats and too much weight. May still use it for a trim color if I can fine a close match that is a single stage color.
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Hi John,
I was originally looking for a yellow metallic. Ford Mark and I were talking about Ford yellow blaze metallic. But it's a three stage color and would probably require too many coats and too much weight. May still use it for a trim color if I can fine a close match that is a single stage color.
hmmm......... seems you could still use the toners in dope like you usually do. ???
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Bill,
Well, the only way to get it right, I'd really need to shoot some kind of metallic silver underneath then a transparent toner on the top. I'm thinking about doing just that. Shooting either silver or bronze metallic then something like Spanish Gold candy over the top. We'll see.
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Bill,
Well, the only way to get it right, I'd really need to shoot some kind of metallic silver underneath then a transparent toner on the top. I'm thinking about doing just that. Shooting either silver or bronze metallic then something like Spanish Gold candy over the top. We'll see.
How about HOK gold candy base and then the candy gold over that? Add some gold pearl powder to the candy gold. Or better yet, gold micro flakes.
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Actually this color, the Blaze yellow, is a different sort of three stage, normally there is a pearl or metallic base, then a transparent type "candy" over that, this one has a non metallic base,, then it has a candy with pearl in it that sprays over it,, or so it appears from the formula.
So Randy its pretty much what your talking about. Typically in factory three stage colors, the base undercoat is pretty much the same color as the top coat excepting the pearls and candy, which just add depth..
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Randy,
The reason I asked is I discovered 2 years ago a metalic supplier the company is " Paint With Pearls" he has several types of flakes & they cover extreamly well. If you Google it ,,it will come up .
john
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John,
Thanks for the tip. May look at that.
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Actually this color, the Blaze yellow, is a different sort of three stage, normally there is a pearl or metallic base, then a transparent type "candy" over that, this one has a non metallic base,, then it has a candy with pearl in it that sprays over it,, or so it appears from the formula.
So Randy its pretty much what your talking about. Typically in factory three stage colors, the base undercoat is pretty much the same color as the top coat excepting the pearls and candy, which just add depth..
Sound like the "special paint scheme" that Holman/Moody applied to the Ford Factory galaxies for the '63 Southern 500. FoMoCo ad execs wanted to see some colors/paint types they were considering for their street models. The one Banjo Matthews was told to use was a "Pearl Yellow". He laid on a coat of the yellow he had been assigned to use for the regular season, mixed some yellow pearl in the next coat (quite a bit of it! LOL!! ), and then shot the clear over the top. When that car was rubbed out, it was SWEET! All the factory cars were pearl coated for that race, and a couple were actually based with HOK Candy paints... They carried the same main paint schemes through the remaining races. Fred Lorenzen's Wimbledon White car had so much pearl added that it looked "silver" in the light, and showed up as a very light gray in blk/wht pictures! LOL!!
Slight problem, the paint they had to use was not real UV protected. A car could change colors during the week of practice from being out in the sun! LOL!!
So much for the tactic of special paint schemes for certain races being a "Modern" thing......
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Bill,
Hard to tell what I'll do in the end. Right now, I'd just like to get the thing built. I'm dawdling over cowl attachment methods right now. I have the cowl pretty much carved out and ready (except for some finishing work), but I can't decide on a cowl attachment method. I had a sort of tricky idea to attach it, but now I'm thinking of something just straight forward. Guess we'll see what I come up with this weekend. Then I just have to do the gear and I'm ready for final sanding and to start finishing. When I get there, I'll worry more about paint (though your email did give me an idea).
On another note, I weighed the airframe with the cowl. That's everything but gear and cowl attachment hardware (whatever that ends up being) and right now I'm at 22oz for all that. Gear should be no more than 4oz total with wheels and the hardware for the cowl, say, 1/2oz. So that gives me 26 1/2oz or so complete. I weighed the powertrain (engine, pipe, header, tank). That's about 15oz. So that gives me 41 1/2oz. I'm guessing some odds and ends will add another ounce or so. That gives me a finishing budget of around 10oz. So I'm still on target for a final weight of around 53oz. So that at least is cool.
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Yep, if you don't pull a "Champione" with the final clear coats, you should be in high cotton! I really like the looks of the plans, and a fairly "simple" paint scheme with a concentration the base color should really be a "looker". IMPO simple would really suit the looks of the airframe.
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One color, with some panels that don't contrast too sharply. Borders around the panels.
... but I am no artist ...
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Yep, if you don't pull a "Champione" with the final clear coats, you should be in high cotton! I really like the looks of the plans, and a fairly "simple" paint scheme with a concentration the base color should really be a "looker". IMPO simple would really suit the looks of the airframe.
IMPO? Shouldn't that be IMPBO? "In my Po' Boy Opinion"? ;) Steve
PS: I still can't figure out (or remember) "IIRC". What's anything got to do with RC?
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IMPO? Shouldn't that be IMPBO? "In my Po' Boy Opinion"? ;) Steve
PS: I still can't figure out (or remember) "IIRC". What's anything got to do with RC?
LL~ LL~ LL~ Po' Boy' has always been a good descriptor of my situation in life, but it's all gravy! LL~ LL~ LL~
If I Recall Correctly, that is............ ;D LL~ LL~
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Early on in the thread you mentioned something about a different type of flap construction.
What did you end up with for the flaps ?
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Allan,
Well, in the end I just framed up a flap out of 1/8" hard sheeting and used a soft and light sheeting. They were stiff enough. I did an experiment using a molded carbon core, but in the end, while exceedingly stiff, was just too heavy. A half ounce for the flaps I used versus an ounce and a quarter for the ones with the molded core. I was originally going to use two identical flaps and tabs on the end but in the end decided to go with full span flaps that were equal in area but not length. Hope they work out, I hate doing a wart.
Finished up the cowl stuff today. the mating is drying right now. Tomorrow, I'll pop it off and get the cowl blocked down. then I can finally get to the gear. Not coming out too bad so far.
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Well, heck. I think I'm going to cut the canopy off and do it again. I used some CA to glue a part down in the canopy and didn't wait long enough for it to cure properly. I pulled the tape over the canopy and there is some fog right over where the part was glued.
Sigh...
Oh well, I can go back and fix a couple of other things I wasn't all that happy with I guess. The cowl is done anyway. Just need to fix this and build the gear.
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I hope I didn't jinx you, Randy - sounds like my goof may have set off some others! Sorry! ~^ I hate do-overs!
Will
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Yea, yea, that's it. It's all Will's fault. Had nothing to do with my bad decision making.
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"Yea, yea, that's it. It's all Will's fault. Had nothing to do with my bad decision making."
Right, and everything to do with mine! At least the full moon has shifted!
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Been a tough week and I haven't been out to the shop since Sunday. Hopefully, I can get out there tomorrow night and decide if I want to cut the canopy off. Man, the fillet came out perfectly, too. Sigh...
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Been a tough week and I haven't been out to the shop since Sunday. Hopefully, I can get out there tomorrow night and decide if I want to cut the canopy off. Man, the fillet came out perfectly, too. Sigh...
Randy, my boy, tomorrow is Friday! And I'm pretty sure yuou "don't do weekends" at work, so that is a good thing!
Just have them raise the bar two inches and go for it. I have all the faith in the world that you will be more than capable of accepting the challenge, and overcoming the "dastardly canopy dilemma"!
Big Bear
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Here's the latest: everything but the gear.
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Why dont you get onto finishing that back wall instead :)
*grinz.. *
Whats the toad called Randy? Will it be done for 2011 Nats?
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Why dont you get onto finishing that back wall instead
It is PJ, gotta have a place to tack up the plans!
Is that the same canopy Randy or did you redo it? I like the long flap fairing extension thingie along the fuse. y1
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I like the long flap fairing extension thingie along the fuse.
I was wondering if it is close to finished or waiting to be trimmed a lot. Could it have some aerodynamic effects on the tail at high AoA?
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Quote - "Why don't you get onto finishing that back wall instead"
My thoughts - ya can't fly the back wall, so leave it alone. (The plane's lookin' greeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaat, Randy!)
I, too, really like the side rails from flap to stab - neat variation from "normal." #^ y1 y1
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Hi guys,
The flap fairings (or side rails, I guess) are there primarily to provide additional stiffness to the rear of the fuselage. Work pretty well, too. I can say that carving those then hollowing them was fun. They don't weigh anything and certainly worked for their intended purpose.
PJ,
I wired, insulated and sheet rocked the shop, then sealed it up with mud. The original intention was to shoot texture and paint, but, much as Will noted, I decided, hey, it's a shop. Leave it. So I did. I may get around to finishing it up at some point.
And yes, it's the same canopy. I will shoot a pic of it so you can see what I mean. I'm still debating on changing it out.
The weight is still looking pretty good. All up weight is still projected in the 55oz range. Maybe a bit lighter, maybe not.
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Long enough fairing you got there Randy? ;D But it's looking really nice so far!!
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Just razzin ya Randy :)
I do like the style of that ship.. With ultra logn farings.. My new model has plenty of Randy inspired stuff going on..
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PJ,
It's my inner low-rider coming out, I suppose. ;D
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''Blush, blush," '' ~^ I couldn't think of the term "fairings" during a senior brain fade!
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Ridin' dirty.......
;D
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Maybe I can come up with hydraulics for the landing gear.
PJ, it doesn't have a name yet. but I have a couple of ideas. Hey, vato!!!
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''Blush, blush," '' ~^ I couldn't think of the term "fairings" during a senior brain fade!
I call those thingys "strakes". I kinda like the look, but all the filleting and crisp edges would seem to be a finishing problem that I wouldn't want to fight. It might be a good idea to run a strip of .007" carbon tape down the edge to stiffen the fuselage, but I don't know if Randy does that or not. It would also help keep the edges crisp. Might be a real good thing on a profile, anyway. H^^ Steve
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One wheel pant done. Man, want a pain. the other is shaped but needs a lot of work yet. Had to redo the initial gear. Too short to clear the prop. The new set is a bit longer. Wish it was shorter, but I'd have to use a 10" prop.
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Hydrolics .. air ride system.. H^^
What sort of names are you tinkering with ?
What are the numbers ? I cant tell by the side view what the wing / stab is
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Hi PJ,
Well, first, you have to understand that I grew up in east LA. So I saw a lot of low riders growing up. My buddy Jose had a brother with a low rider 55 Chevy Nomad. Top chopped and draggin' Said Hooligan in the back window so I might go with that. The other one is a 59 Chevy El Camino (referenced above) that was a low rider that a guy down the street who had Optional Morals in the back window.
The plane is 615 square inches, The tail plane is 28% (about .51 TVC), same as my last plane. Weight should come in around 55oz. but I'm hoping for a couple of ounces less. Power will be a RO-Jett 65.
First wheel pant (with gear and wheel) came in at a bit over an ounce, so that is less than I was figuring. Hey, it's something.
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Check the year of this pic and what I think is a little Mercury sitting curbside. H^^
I see the year didn't show up. It was June 1954. jeh
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Well Homie, we already have a plane called "LA Heat", you could call this one "East LA"?
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Well, it's about done. The gear is a lot longer than I wanted, but it won't let the prop clear otherwise. Sigh...
But hey, it's not too bad, I guess. Just the tank to build and I plumb and it's final sanding time and finish. A couple of pics attached with the jig still sticking out the nose. The good news is, the final, all up weight is 26oz so that should let me come in under 55oz final weight. The tail wheel is a little long, so I'll have to set that better.
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It just drools cool Randy!!! I like it!!!
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Pretty cool Randy, it'll be interesting to see what you come up with for a paint scheme now. Studying your side view shot here I could imagine a super bright Tangerine pearl or some sort of wild purple, or both. Either color would work well with a bright silver trim of some sort to add some "chrome". The real life big time lowrider show cars seem to be largely about the bright loud paint, so for the plane I'd suggest the less white the better. With your eye for graphics I'm sure we're in for a good one with whatever you decide.
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You know what would have looked Killer. ( not that is doesnt already.... n~ )
If you could match the dorsal fins to the shape of the Spats !
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Check the year of this pic and what I think is a little Mercury sitting curbside. H^^
I see the year didn't show up. It was June 1954. jeh
My dad had a hot rod 1941 cabover truck, like the one behind the Merc, only with the front windows un-chopped.
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PJ,
The wheel pants actually are a stretched version of the rudders. They are point and the rudders have a scallop, but I too the actual template of the rudders and just stretched it out.
Actually, at this point I don't have a clue as to paint scheme. But I'll come up with something, I guess.
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Lo Rider? Lo Flyer. Keep it basic white with some gold and red trim. Simple but snappy. With that look, busy is , in my opinion, the wrong direction for a paint scheme. Enhance it's beauty, don't hide it. D>K
I'd agree with clean and fairly simple graphics, and not too many colors, but go BRIGHT and LOUD with whatever colors are used.
No white on this baby, just adds generic-ness.
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Baby Blue with sparkles?
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Lime sherbet green,,
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Lime sherbet green,,
With a very dark canopy, and just a touch of black and white pin striping. HH%%
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>>Lime sherbet green,,<<
Been there, done that. HB~>
Still scanning for that yellow/gold base color. I suppose I should just go to my paint guy and look. But that would mean I'd have to put in effort. Sigh...
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Lime sherbet green,,
Maybe a WWII German camo scheme, something like you'd see on, oh I don't know, an ME-109? VD~ S?P :##
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Wayne,,
I sense a thinly vieled nudge there,, yeah, Camo German patterns,, like a 109,, not thinking that will work for RAndy, but I know a plane it will work on,,
still have time,,
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OK, guys, I think I found my color. Should work. I did a test panel and it doesn't look bad at all and was largely what I was going for to begin with.
;D
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Randy that's one BAD machine. It reminds me of the models of my youth early 1970's the wheel pants Jimmy Cassale 46 Spectrum and the tween rudders Gene Schaffer.
Truly beautiful
Photo Genes tween rudder USA AMA
Jose Modesto
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Thanks Jose. I had some other ideas I wanted to incorporate, but decided that it was cool enough and I wanted it to stay light.
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Too late to consider this scheme I suppose. Even tho blue does get hot in summer. H^^
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Do,
I actually like that quite a bit. But work on the plane is stalled. The thermostat on my wall heater appears to have gone belly up. So work is suspended while I try to hunt down a replacement. It appears it's a hard to find item (or at least I can't find one online yet).
Sigh... It's always something.
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R.P. Why are your planes always called "toad"? They look much too good to have that name!
Someday I'll be able to paint like you do.
Floyd
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Floyd,
They are toads until they prove otherwise. This one has the potential to be a swan. But it hasn't proved it yet.
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maybe they should be catapillars then when they come out of the cacoon, they will be moths or butterflies <=
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Most of mine end up turkeys. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Nope, Toads it is. Warts and all until they prove otherwise. This one is looking pretty good so far. But so did the last one until I weighed it before finishing. Then it was definitely a toad.
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When you starting the paint Randy?
I am weird. I think the opposite, I think they are all Champions until proved otherwise.
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Nope, Toads it is. Warts and all until they prove otherwise. This one is looking pretty good so far. But so did the last one until I weighed it before finishing. Then it was definitely a toad.
Well, as long as it doesn't end up being a "Lead Sled". Wait a minute, look back to page two... ;D :## S?P ;D
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Wayne,
So far, it doesn't appear this will be a lead sled. I finished the tank yesterday (heating the shop with the kerosene heater - sigh...). Just have to come up with a way to hold it in place (with very limited space). I have a couple of ideas. Projected final weight is still in the 55oz range which is the ballpark.
PJ,
Hope to start the finish this weekend and I'll restart a new thread in the finishing area.
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Brother Randy,
I found the solution to your dilemma:
Just find a Princess to kiss your "toad"....... problem solved.
Big bear
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Wayne,
So far, it doesn't appear this will be a lead sled. I finished the tank yesterday (heating the shop with the kerosene heater - sigh...). Just have to come up with a way to hold it in place (with very limited space). I have a couple of ideas. Projected final weight is still in the 55oz range which is the ballpark.
...just razzin' ya Randy, can't wait to see the paint Homie! :##
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Well, I finally completed the beast and it's ready for finish. Just need to final sand. Spent the weekend finishing up the tank and getting the cowl to fit around it, setting up a method to hold the tank in place and doing tank vents in the fuselage (that was interesting considering the theme). I put it all together; ready to fly except finish. I do this to come up with a finishing budget.
Sigh .... it's not as light as I would like, but I can't imagine what I'd do to make it lighter without compromising the structural integrity. Guess I'll need to do some study on that. At least it's very stiff and straight without covering. All up weight, ready to finish is 46oz. That gives me only a 9oz finishing budget to hit the target weight. That should be OK. The last plane's finish was 6oz. I'll use the same method, more of less. Truth is, I'll be happy with anything under 60oz so I have a bit of space. I just think it will fly better at around 55oz. It's about 620 square inches with a relatively thin wing (about 19%).
So, I will move this epic to the finishing header once I get started. As I say, I need to final sand it and check for anything missed. Then it's start painting.
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Randy,
You can put a single pole switch in your heater untill you find the correct stat. Just tape the H#*! out of it. Better than breathing carbon from the kerosene heater.
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Yea, the new thermostat (with integrated fan control) is supposed to be here tomorrow. Take about a half hour to put the thing back together.
Sigh...
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When you starting the paint Randy?
I am weird. I think the opposite, I think they are all Champions until proved otherwise.
In case you haven't already caught on, PJ, Randy is just ate up with self depreciation......
LL~ LL~
(I love the guy!)
Big Bear
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Bill,
I think it's a matter of perspective. You know the axiom: expect victory but plan for defeat. ;D
It's looking less toad-like at this point. May even be a good plane.
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Bill,
I think it's a matter of perspective. You know the axiom: expect victory but plan for defeat. ;D
It's looking less toad-like at this point. May even be a good plane.
Hi Buddy,
It is all about how you approach things. If you start with the "toad" expectations and it comes up a Prince, then it makes you a lot happier! ;D
Have you found that "Princess" yet?
Big Bear
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Been married to her for 34 years. ;D
Finally settled on paint colors. I am waiting for some stuff from HOK and will head down to the paint shop on Friday for the base color.
And my switch for my heater came last night so I will get that in tonight and be off and running again.
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#^
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Been married to her for 34 years. ;D (snip)
Hmmmm.......... 40 years here. ;D
I would have HATED to see you before you met her. I am visualizing a kinda short, green colored guy jumping around......... I understand where all your "toad" comments come from now! LOL!!!!!!!! y1
Good luck with the HOK and base coats. I have absolutely no doubt it will be a "looker" when you get finished. They always do.
Big Bear
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Maybe this is obvious but ... the tail is straight and the fins are angled a few degrees, like some other designs with similar configurations. Right?
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Well, the rudders and fuse are aligned (no offset). There's about a degree and a half of stab positive incidence. The engine and wing are straight (no offset).
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Engine and rudders straight... I must have seen too many old designs where they are offset for line tension b1
So, the leadout guide is the main variable if you want more or less tension. I like that.
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* Chanting.. *
" NEW THREAD ! NEW THREAD ! NEW THREAD "
We want to see primer on that Toad.. - Im putting off putting on primer waiting for you. - Mind you did finalise gaps and everything last night.
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>>So, the leadout guide is the main variable if you want more or less tension.<<
That and tip weight along with prop type and line length. Well, there's engine speed and ....
Better to have everything aligned and square then adjust from there.
Hope to have the thing covered this weekend. Picked up a bit of a bug so I don't know how much time I'll be able to stand out in the shop, but hey, at least the electric furnace is working again.
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Engine and rudders straight... I must have seen too many old designs where they are offset for line tension b1
So, the leadout guide is the main variable if you want more or less tension. I like that.
The top designers in the USA all preach 0-0-0 for the alignment. A couple insist on a degree or two of positive stab, or a degree or two of down thrust, but no offsets. Get the plane flying tangent to the circle and it will fly best. and outward crabbing is unwanted.
Not everyone around the World seems to see it the same, I guess.
Big Bear
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The top designers in the USA all preach 0-0-0 for the alignment. ...
...
Not everyone around the World seems to see it the same, I guess.
0-0-0 sounds good to me. Why complicate things if "straight" works?
The saga of the "Aircraft Formerly Known as Toad" continues: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=20423.0
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PerttiMe,
Well, the last 3 or 4 planes have been 0-0 one the wing and engine but have had a degree or so of positive incidence in the stab. At least for me, that tend to cure hunting.
I'm thinking of naming it Noxious. ;D