Author Topic: My LA HEAT (Read 32944 times)

frank carlisle · « **Reply #300 on:** July 15, 2007, 10:49:46 PM »

It flies. Here are pix.
Film later.

Tom Perry · « **Reply #301 on:** July 15, 2007, 11:31:46 PM »

I like the second picture. The sky really set it off.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #302 on:** July 16, 2007, 06:07:55 AM »

Video? Video? I wanna HEAR those twins...

--Ray

P.S. congratulations...I know it was a thrill.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #303 on:** July 16, 2007, 06:16:33 AM »

I posted a link in the open forum Ray.
Yup it was a thrill. There's nothing like flying a plane you spent $800 and a year and a half building for the first time. I call it putting it all on the line. How's that for a pun?

John Paris · « **Reply #304 on:** July 16, 2007, 10:23:39 AM »

Frank,
I had a good time shooting video, tweaking needles, removing batteries, fueling tanks and releasing the airplane yesterday. Although there is a sweet sound to two engines running in sync, I think there is less work in getting 2 airplanes ready to fly. Congrats on the success and I would think about getting a better looking work crew.....

John

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #305 on:** July 16, 2007, 02:23:30 PM »

"Putting it all on the line(s)..." yeah, pretty good.

As I said somewhere else, the difficulty factor increases as to the square of the number of engines involved...

I didn't fly my long-lost twin very many times, because the central fuselage was snub-nosed, NOTHING between the engines at all. R-e-a-l-l-y easy to get into the first while starting the second. At least the Heat has a fuselage there to deflect the errant hand.

Something's wrong with my video viewer software I guess; I just get a black screen with sound. The sound is very cool, however...

So when you taking it through the whole pattern? Huh? Huh?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #306 on:** July 16, 2007, 02:58:19 PM »

Quote from: John Paris on July 16, 2007, 10:23:39 AM

Frank,
I had a good time shooting video, tweaking needles, removing batteries, fueling tanks and releasing the airplane yesterday. Although there is a sweet sound to two engines running in sync, I think there is less work in getting 2 airplanes ready to fly. Congrats on the success and I would think about getting a better looking work crew.....
John

I'm glad you had fun John. And thanks for the great commentary you did in the video and all the help.

Don't be disrespecting my crew though. They're the best.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #307 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:33:45 AM »

The trailer I picked up weighed 700 pounds more than the tow limit on my truck. I decided to strip everything out of the trailer and use it for cargo only. I've taken 440 pounds of debris to the dump so far and it looks like I'll hit close to a thousand pounds in weight reduction. I discovered that some of the substructure is rotted out so later I'll do some rebuilding. Right now I'm going to finish stripping it and start using it ti haul airplanes. First trip will be to the club field 30 miles away. This'll be the shake down cruise and I can get a feel for how it's going to behave. Next week I'll run it up to Flint. That will be about 170 miles round trip. If all goes well I'll grag it to Muncie for the FCM conyest.

The inboard engine quit on all four flights I put up on the Heat the other day. Upon inspection when I got it home I found a bb size chunk of solder floating around in the fuel tank. I think this may have been shutting the engine down. I've got that fixed and the Heat is nearly ready for a second round of test flights.

Flying on the outboard engine alone does not destabilize the plane enough to make it crash. Also the pull on the lines is significantly less than what everyone predicted. Actually at 75 oz. it's light.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #308 on:** July 29, 2007, 06:41:58 AM »

The inboard engine still quit early even after removing debris from tank.

I swapped the engines out, putting the inboard engine on the outboard nacelle and moving the outboard engine to the inboard nacelle. Took it out yesterday for a test and the inboard engine quit early again.

Now I'm thinking it could be a fuel tank issue so I'm going to leave the engines where they are since they both run great in the outboard nacelle. This time I'll swap the tanks back and forth and see what happens. I suspect that the inboard engine will quit early again. If it does it will be time to make a new fuel tank that will have the fuel pick up wider than the front of the tank.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #309 on:** July 29, 2007, 08:26:22 AM »

I've just finished removing both engines and fuel tanks. It takes about 10 minutes to do both sides.

In the pictures you will see that I chose to build this model without detachable cowlings. The tanks slide into the nacelles from the front. They are held in place by a 4/40 screw in front. I wedge a wad of foam between the tank and tank cieling to hold the rear of the tank in place.

To get the engines out, the needdle valve and muffler have to be removed first. I know it sounds like a hassle but it goes very quickly.

My next step is to reverse the position of the tanks by putting the one that was in the inboard nacelle into the outboard nacelle and vice versa for the second tank. Then I'll stuff the engines back in and take it out for a test flight.

If it does the same as the last flight and the inboard engine quits running prematurely I'll know that it is the position of the tank in the nacelle and that the tail end of the tank isn't kicked far enough to the outboard. I'll need to make a new tank. If it all works I'll leave it alone and start flying some patterns.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #310 on:** July 29, 2007, 09:04:48 AM »

SOOooooo..............the tanks have been swapped and it's all back together and ready for another test.
Now I'll call Jan and see if he'll come launch for me.
This test will make flight number 10. A nice thing about a twin engine model is if an engine quits you still get to get in a whole flight.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #311 on:** July 29, 2007, 12:36:46 PM »

Switching the tanks seems to have solved the problem. I took the Heat out a little while ago and put up the first flight where both the engines drained the tanks for a full flight.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #312 on:** July 29, 2007, 12:41:20 PM »

Huh...so the problem didn't "follow the tank", but neither did it stay at the inboard. Weird. More of those capricious gremlins I guess.

Anyhow, congrats on a vexing problem solved.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #313 on:** July 29, 2007, 03:35:10 PM »

According to John Paris --- once the plane gets settled into the flight the fuel travels at the same speed as the plane and does not tend to be pushed to the back of the tank so much as it pools in the outboard most area of the tank. Think about chicken hopper tanks. The hopper is usually in the middle of the tank and the fuel pools there because the hopper is the most outboard part of the tank.
I think that the shape of the tank was just enough out of square to keep the fuel pick up from being in the outermost area. The tank has more offset to the rear in the outboard nacelle. Plus it's traveling faster than the inboard tank.

I THINK.................

Randy Powell · « **Reply #314 on:** July 29, 2007, 04:25:49 PM »

Or, it's gremlins.

I had a plane that would surge out of the corners. Bad. Did it for 10 or 12 flights while I tried the usual stuff. I took it apart, pulled the back off the tank and cleaned it, cleaned the NVA...again, changed fuel filters and fuel line. I figured that if that didn't do it, I'd go to a new tank or something. The thing flew fine after that. For many, many flights. I didn't really do anything, but it sort of fixed itself. I suppose there could have been an undetected hole in the tank that was fixed when I put the back of the tank back on, but who knows.

I went with the theory that I had trapped a gremlin in the tank and taking the back off let him out.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #315 on:** July 29, 2007, 04:53:34 PM »

Could been the tank, mighta been the fuel, coulda been a gremmlin I don't know, but look at the fix I'm in.

It seems darned strange that something rights itself just because I moved it.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #316 on:** July 29, 2007, 06:02:58 PM »

Frank,

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Just keep an eye on it.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #317 on:** July 29, 2007, 06:26:34 PM »

O.K. Randy........now that I'm getting a whole run I'm starting to think about actually flying a pattern with it. Man when it goes into a wingover those engines sound really sweet.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #318 on:** August 14, 2007, 07:22:54 AM »

It's been a couple weeks since I messed with the LA Heat. I took it out this morning and put in two flights with it. On the second run both engines stayed lit for the whole run. The inboard engine quit first and the outboard engine quit 4 laps later.
It goes pretty fast with the APC 10X5s----I'm going to run it with APC 10X4s tomorrow.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #319 on:** August 14, 2007, 08:10:55 AM »

Glad to hear that the gremlin has went somewhere else. As you stated it could have been a pin hole that could only be seen with pressure under water. I had an engine start giving me fits. It turned out to be the metal fuel filter had a leak that only pressure revealed. A couple of wrenches fixed that one. Have fun, DOC Holliday

frank carlisle · « **Reply #320 on:** August 16, 2007, 05:00:37 AM »

I took the Heat out yesterday......put in 3 1/2 oz. of fuel for each tank and got to the overheads before I ran out of fuel.
I have 15 flights on it now.
It turns very tight.....there are tongue mufflers on it now but I plan to try the stock mufflers next. I'm thinking a little nose weight will tame down the corners.
I still don't trust the plane and I'm having issues with getting both engines started quickly. Seems the needles need to be turned out about an eighth of a turn for each start.
It flies a little too fast with the 10X5 props. The LHS doesn't have any 10X4s in stock so I'll order a few from Brodak.

All in all a twin is a real headache to get dialed in just right.

Bill Little · « **Reply #321 on:** August 16, 2007, 08:33:57 AM »

Two questions:

You want to "tame the corners"?? (is it stable and tracks well?)

Have you tried the 10 1/2 X 4 1/2 APC?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #322 on:** August 16, 2007, 08:47:08 AM »

Hi Bill,.....It's stable and tracks well, but is a little on the twitchy side.

I haven't tried the 10 1/2 X 4 1/2 APC props but I'll add a couple to my list for Brodak.

Bill Little · « **Reply #323 on:** August 16, 2007, 09:29:06 AM »

Just personal, but I wouldn't want to throw nose weight at it unless closing down the line spacing didn't work. A hard corner is hard enough to get! LOL!!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #324 on:** August 16, 2007, 09:44:46 AM »

I have lots of time--I'll try both.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #325 on:** August 16, 2007, 03:07:12 PM »

Frank, on speed: What length lines are you using? Any chance of lengthening them?

And, on "twitchy": I agree, I'd try narrowing line spacing first. It always makes a dramatic difference to me.

--Ray

P.S. My knee hurts.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #326 on:** August 16, 2007, 03:19:40 PM »

I'll try a narrower handle spacing. Bill Gruby is making me a couple handles that have that feature.
I'm all the way out to 70 feet on line length.

Bill Little · « **Reply #327 on:** August 17, 2007, 07:14:51 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on August 16, 2007, 03:19:40 PM

I'll try a narrower handle spacing. Bill Gruby is making me a couple handles that have that feature.
I'm all the way out to 70 feet on line length.

Handle spacing is a GREAT trimming tool, Frank................

I also believe that once you relax with the plane, you will see a dramatic improvement!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #328 on:** August 22, 2007, 04:49:40 AM »

We got rained out Sunday so I didn't fly the LA Heat after all. I now have a handle that I can get narrower line spacing with and I also have a couple of 10X4 APC props to put on it.

This coming Sunday is the next scheduled session with the HEAT. I'll be meeting some of the fellows out at RCCD.

In the meantime I've been flying that profile Mustang. The judges at two contests have told me I need to make my pattern about 30% smaller so I'll be working at shrinking loops and squares. Intersections and shapes are good though.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #329 on:** August 26, 2007, 08:24:19 PM »

As planned I flew the LA Heat today. The out board engine went kinda lean the first couple of flights so I ran it a little richer than the inboard engine ( that was John Paris' idea) that settled the one engine conking out issue. I used a handle with closer line spacing and that helped out tremendously. (thanks Bill and Ray).
I'm getting 7 minute runs, fast starts, and managing to get in a full pattern under full power.
The last flight of the day was near orgasmic when both engines quit at the same time (after a complete pattern).

Here is a picture of the Heat on the flight line.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #330 on:** August 26, 2007, 09:40:03 PM »

Congradulations Frankie! Now you're gonna have some fun.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #331 on:** August 27, 2007, 05:47:51 AM »

Hey Randy!! You're right--it's time to start having fun with this plane. It takes a little while to get it fueled up and it takes a little longer to dial in two engines. I'm getting used to the sound and the way the plane looks in the air, that was throwing me off at first. Plus there is the fact that this one was a long and difficult build and I'm scared of busting it.

It turns a real tight corner. Almost looks like a magic trick it transitions so quickly.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #332 on:** August 28, 2007, 06:01:01 AM »

I might just take the Heat to Aurora, Il. this weekend for it's first contest. John Paris does wonders as a pitman. I start the engines and he needles them while I head for the handle. At first it was taking two minutes to tune the engines. With John pitting the time is down to about 45 seconds.
I think it will be worth the 5 hour hour drive to get to fly this plane some more with John pitting.

Bill Little · « **Reply #333 on:** August 28, 2007, 07:04:28 AM »

Quote

Plus there is the fact that this one was a long and difficult build and I'm scared of busting it.

Frank, you really have to get over that......... and quick...........

frank carlisle · « **Reply #334 on:** August 30, 2007, 02:19:23 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on August 28, 2007, 07:04:28 AM

Frank, you really have to get over that......... and quick...........

I'm working on that Bill.........Right now I'm about 80% sure about going to the Tree Town contest this weekend. It'll be the first event I enter the Heat in.
I really like this plane. There are a lot of multi-engine planes around but not many full fuselage models. It's great to have one of them. And the fact that I built it makes the whole thing that much cooler. And those two .40s sound so gooooood.

Bill Little · « **Reply #335 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:35:27 AM »

We both know that if you're scared of busting it, you will never fly it real well.............

An real "old timer" told me years ago that if his plane was in one piece after the flight, he was happy, but don't EXPECT it to be!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #336 on:** September 03, 2007, 07:17:56 PM »

I took the HEAT to Aurora Illinois yesterday and flew it in the contest there. I put up my two official flights and overran by half a minute on both runs. I lost out on landing and pattern points and secured my position in last place. I don't feel bad about that at all. Both flights qualified, the engines ran like good clocks and I got to fly it in a safe place with plenty of qualified guys around to help out. I think those two flights made it 21 flights total with only the most recent 4 or five being complete stunt patterns. So I left the contest pretty happy about getting to visit with old friends and new. The plane was in one piece and everything was great with the exception of my fuel management issue.
I bought a plane (motor and all) from Crist Rigotti for a gratifyingly low price and brought it home and gave it to Jan. He reimbursed me for what I paid. Jan's interest in flying has perked up since he picked up the plane this morning and around one o'clock he called to see if I wanted to go out to the RCCD circle and put up some flights. That seemed like a good idea to me, so by two o'clock we were at the circle.
Jan really likes his new plane and since Crist built the plane it was trimmed very well and the Brodak .40 on the nose well tuned. So now my buddy Jan is flying again which means I can count on him to come out and help me handle the L A HEAT.
And of course I took the L A HEAT with me to meet Jan at the circle.
I got in three flights--the first run went over by 9 seconds, it took 42 seconds from the signal to start to the time Jan let the plane go.
9 seconds isn't much time to take off of a run so rather than take out fuel I decided to run the engines richer. On the second flight the pit time was 52 seconds ( it took two attempts to start up engine two) and the total time was 7 mins. 40 seconds with the inboard engine conking first and the out board engine taking the plane an additional 10 laps before it quit. That ten extra laps cost about a minute I didn't need.
Last week John Paris came down to RCCD so we could get in a session of flying and we discovered that the engines ran much better when the outboard one was a little richer than the inboard. So that's how I've run them for the contest and for today.
For the third flight today I richened the inbourd engine about an eighth of a turn and the outboard was opened nearly half a turn. Pit time was back to the low 40's, total run time was 7 mins 20 secs. and the out board engine carried the plane 5 additional laps after the inboard engine went out.
I'm pretty comfortable with the numbers from that last flight. I'll continue to shoot for both engines quitting at the same time. I've left the needles where they were and that's where I'll start up with them on the next session.
As for flying the plane.................I'm getting used to the sound it makes. That was confusing the first dozen times I flew it and it was hard to think. It corners great, it doesn't have any trim issues ( at least at this point) and it looks like I've got a pretty darn good plane.
I'm a happy camper.

Bill Little · « **Reply #337 on:** September 03, 2007, 10:38:31 PM »

Hi Frank,

Are you filling th tanks and taking out measured amount? That is the safest way to make sure how much fuel you are actually removing. You can afford to take almost a minute off you flight time. 6:45 to 7 minutes is really a pretty safe time if you're in the 5.2 to 5.4 lap time. FAI only allows 7 minutes, you know.

I always shoot for a 6:45 to 7 minute flight time, as do a good many of the guys I fly in the contests with. I get bored as heck REAL FAST if I have to fly a minute or so after the pattern! LOL!!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #338 on:** September 04, 2007, 01:58:43 AM »

I've been filling the 4 ounce tanks to capacity and using the needles to adjust fuel consumption. So far I can predictably set the run time to stay within the eight minute time limit. As I get more flights on the model I'll fine tune to trim a few more seconds off the 7:20 run I am currently getting.
Flying this plane is getting to be a lot of fun.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #339 on:** September 08, 2007, 06:25:29 PM »

I took the Heat to the Kilsdonk Fly-In up in Flint today. Only got in a couple of flights. I'm still getting it tuned in.

Rick Sawicki got a couple good pictures. The captions on picture bottoms explain what's going on.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #340 on:** September 09, 2007, 06:38:58 AM »

V-e-r-r-r-r-y interesting...you're a leftie, Frank! So am I...but I generally fly right-handed. That, and cut with scissors, is about all I do right-handed.

Inboard wing looks a little low on takeoff...is that just shadows creating one of them optical illusion thangs?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #341 on:** September 09, 2007, 07:05:56 AM »

The take off surface isn't building table straight so what you see is the shadow passing over a low section.

I eat and write and fly with my left hand. When I play baseball or bowl I'm right handed.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #342 on:** September 22, 2007, 06:19:34 PM »

The engine runs are getting more predictable. The engines usually shut off about 10 seconds after each other.

I'm taking it to Cleveland tomorrow. It's still a crap shoot if I'll run under or over. I'm hoping for just right tomorrow.

I have about 29 flights on it now. And I'm still learning how to fly it. I'm still not used to the two engines going at once.

I'm told that it presents well. Curt calls it the "Beast" And sounds awesome going through the pattern.
It takes about 40 seconds from signalling the judges to airborne.
There are some urban myths about twins that so far as I've witnessed are just not true.

RC Storick · « **Reply #343 on:** September 26, 2007, 05:44:15 AM »

You are running Brodak .40's, Are you using .021 lines? As required by the rules..

frank carlisle · « **Reply #344 on:** September 26, 2007, 06:46:02 AM »

Yes Bob, I'm using .021 lines at 70'. The heavier lines don't seem to be taking away from the performance much.
The plane flies good.