The objective is to find a faster way to build a SV22 wing. I have been molding balsa wing panels and building lost foam wings with ribs,this method produces perfect wing panels but time consuming. I was looking for a faster way.
I have been working with Bob Hunt on creating what i call foam inserts for vacuum bagging wing panels in a female mold.
I devised a way to cut a foam wing and keep a  foam perimeter that is used as a foam support for the 1/32" balsa skin.
With Bob Hunts vast experience in cutting foam the following system was created.
1) foam wing with out foam spars
2) center section removed
3) added 3/16"wood trailing edge
4)slpit in half
5)use half foam insert in composite balsa wood,glass,foam and epoxy.
Jose Modesto

Additional photos

Wynn. The panels range from 2.7 to 3oz in white primer 10.2 to 12 oz wings panels.
I was looking for a faster way to produce the prefinish SV22 wing panels without ribs,spars, or any interior support.
 Wynn at this time here in the US we are going through a rules cycle wen this is settled and we have clear rules i can them mobilize.
At this time im not selling any items.
The foam wing inserts make a good solid wing at resonable weights.
wyyn i will send private pm later.I have to go cook dinner.
Jose Modesto

Good stuff Jose,

When I last talked to Bob he was explaining this process to me. He said that it is so simple that there was no need to purchase these shells from someone, anyone could do them by theirself. He said that he was working on an article that explains how to do it and for the most part it is pretty simple and as usual, ingenious. He explained the process to me and I look forward to trying it for myself.

Good job Jose.

Derek

p.s. nice try!

D some photos for you of models that used the Mylar folders system 2003
wen bob showed me his system i said Bob the leading edge does Not come out perfect his comment. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. or words to that affect.( I still use the Mylar folder to apply the glass to the foam and wood flaps on my models.)
Bob said so what that you have to sand the leading edge,my comment was that i wanted to have a perfect panel thus his comment.
that comment has changed my views on continuing the quest for perfection were 98% is good enough.
photo #1,2 and 4 Big Jim El-Jay 46 the only wood in model is 1/4" wing leading,trailing edge,fin,wing tips and rudder.
photo # 3 my half profile with inverted engine. these components were given to Neal Beekman who built the model all flying surfaces are foam with glass and epoxy in a Mylar folder.
photo #5 foam wing with yellow taffeta for color again no wood.
All foam components were cut By John Duncan.
Jose Modesto

D as I stated. the paint in the mold are for me and my friends that can come over and apply the paint and want to compete in JSO at the Nat's..
As you well know there are NO appearance points in local contest in many PAMPA districts,specially in the east.
For PAMPA classes the paint in the mold is acceptable, as you can compete with a model built and painted by others.
There is only one contest a year were the painted in the mold models are not allowed JSO at the Nat's.
A couple of photos of my first foam insert wing. I used Kevlar 2.3oz/SY material with .5 glass cloth and 2 layers of .5 CFM inside with a 3/16" foam. Windy forgot to mention that you cant sand Kevlar thus this wing was never used for a model. 8 years later i repeated the same error and made the most perfect Kevlar wing panels and then had to sand the seam leading edge,again beautiful useless wing panels. I'm getting old.
Jose Modesto

BTW, those two wing panels that you are holding are very nice!!!

Derek

Jose
Actually there is a way to use kevlar so you can sand the surface. Just add a layer of light weight glass cloth over it. You'd need to vacuum bag it otherwise there is fair chance of the glass lifting a bit and creating the ugglies due to the texture differences in the two cloths .... Don't ask about that. .... But I have used this method in boat construction when doing a composite one off hull on male molds. If you want to use carbon that is doable too, I have used that type of layup with carbon canoes where we use a kevlar blanket under the exterior carbon ones to stop cracks from propagating in the carbon with impacts (even high quality canoes with high quality paddlers have occasional impacts). Don't know how the weights would come out compared to what you are doing as I always worked with heavier cloth in the carbon and kevlar than you would be. At any rate, the glass makes a nice smooth sanding veil. 

BTW, I too thought I had developed an allergy to balsa dust. Did some allergy testing and was not the case but my lungs would become a wreck. Turned out it was the shape of balsa sanding dust fibers. Look at some under magnification. The look just like snowflake crystals... except when they get warm the don't melt, they are still sharp with fibers going in all directions. Not the nice little round stuff you think it is. When that gets in the lungs ouch... and it has trouble getting out because it embeds in the soft tissue lining and will not flow out with the mucous as most foreign debries does. I sand in an OSHA vapor mask now. End of issue. And I can use the same mask for painting, except for 2 part poly, then need forced air supply to be safe... so I gave that up. Now in electric it doesn't matter. I don't need the fuel proofing.

Be careful with the epoxies and epoxy dust. It can become an extreme allergen. Many 100% composite homebuilt aircraft projects out there partly finished by the unwary. I only sand the stuff with long sleeves and OSHA mask. BTW, if someone refuses to invest in an actual OSHA mask (the old filters that are out of date for solvents BTW are still good for particles like balsa so I use those for balsa sanding) there is a whole nother area of particulate mask protection available. Some medical surgical masks have multiple layers to filter out very fine particulates like bacteria and virus. They can also be fit more accurately to the face than most of the stuff you get at a hardware. Medical or dental supply houses should have them. The ones I use are by 3M and are molded with one elastic around the neck. I use this type because I work with surgical microscopes and surgical lighting on a head frame. But they are available in the rectangular two ear elastic versions as well. Buy them by the box, they are much cheaper. Don't even know if they are available separately. Certainly would not be from a medical or dental supply. We'd want tracking of the batch numbers and sterility.

bob branch

Jose,

Send me a personal message with your current email address, for some reason every time I try to email you it bounces back. Would like to talk to you about maybe coming up to see your process. I would like learn more.


tstagg@goeaston.net

Thanks

Tim

All I can say is welcome back Bob!!!!

Welcome back Bob also! 

I wanna know why Osama no vsc fly.

Hey Bob:  
Dont let this guy get you down, like what happened about a year ago.
In the words of Col. Jessup:
"We need you here, we want you here!"
or somthin like that

Isn't it time to update them with new techniques and lessons learned after 15-20 years since the initial creation of the videos? If you decide to do it, I'll be the first one signed up!!!

I would be "All IN" for some new videos. 
But I know that takes lots of time..

I was thinking foam wings for The Flamingo. There are 4 and 2 rudders.

Open bay wings are extra work.

Bob's articles are great!  Bob's articles are the only thing I look for in that Mag.

Bob tells it like it is, doesn't misrepresent, and gives all the information up.

Do you find that often? 

Keep up the good work Bob. You have followers.

Charles

Sleep is overrated 

I always say, "I can sleep next month." 

I first met Bob Hunt at the 1973 NATS.  It was my first time entering the NATS and Bob's first time entering in PA.  His Genesis was absolutely beautiful and the lightest airplane I ever held.  We psyched each other up to qualify and we both made it.  Of course, Bob was outstanding and took 9th place in the finals, while I landed in last place at 18th.

I was very impressed with Bob's foam wing.  After returning home, I ordered my wing design from him and it was absolutely a work of art.  I used that wing in the plane I built for the 1974 and 1975 NATS.  I tanked both times, but enjoyed the experience.  Here, 38 years later, I still have that airplane and that wing.

Anyway, I left modeling for 36 or so years.  A while back, I called Bob and re-introduced myself.  He remembered me and we talked for a couple of hours like old friends.  He is still as down to earth as he was in 1973 and still as willing to help anybody build a better airplane.  His talents are beyond reproach and I believe he is one of the true masters of PA in every phase of it.  I have spoken to him a few more times since then.  He is always available to talk and provide information.

I am really glad to see him posting again.  I hope he stays to enrich the board.

Jeff : You stated your opinion ,others have disagreed - its time to move on.

I highly doubt Buddy joined just to get into you - He's not that sort of guy, like Bob - Buddy is class all day.

2 bad calls from 2.. Nice work.

Bob,

Are your foam wings cut by CNC?

DXF files?

Charles

To whom it may concern,
     I called Bob after reading his last post in this thread.We talked for a bit and now we both realize how a little misunderstanding can be blown out of context.The one thing that I never wanted to do was make it sound like Bob has'nt done an enourmous amount for the hobby and everyone/everything in it.I apologized for making it sound that way and now things will be better between us.I won't apoligize for standing up for what I believe in but I do realize a simple phone call first may have been the best way to handle this misunderstanding instead of posting first.I am guilty as charged for that and I sincerely apologized to Bob and I send that to all who may have been offended.If there are still people out there that wanna rip me have at it,This is still America!!!!As far as I am concerned this misunderstanding is understood,All good,See ya's at the Nats,
                                                                                  Jeff "T-Bone" Traxler

" PJ,
    It was his first post!!!

  Lets imagine you telling someone about the vortex generators before you said anything to anyone else "

I disavow any knowledge of such devices..........

Hi all:

Jeff's absolutely correct; a simple phone call from either of us to the other would have quickly solved this monumental misunderstanding. We are now good and I wish that you all will simply forget this ever happened and hold no ill will against Jeff. We did a virtual hug over the phone and will do that in actuality at the Nats as well.

All this stemmed from something that I had promised someone else that I would not disclose that was identical to an original idea that Jeff had and that he had discussed with me. I couldn't tell Jeff that, because it would cause me to break a confidence that I had with the third person. Once Jeff heard that, he knew that I had not done anything improper.  That third person finally announced the idea on the forum (which he's been working on for the past few years...) and Jeff thought that I had told that person about his (Jeff's) idea. It was as Tom Niebuhr suggested, a classic case of parallel development.

This should serve as a lesson for all of us on these forums. We need to speak with each other personally whenever something like this arises. Lots of hurt feelings and typing could be avoided.

Jeff and I will be practicing together at the Nats. Come join us!   

Bob Hunt

Bob you truly are a Gentleman.
I don't know Mr Traxler, but in your shoes I would be trying to find him and break his nose...You are, my friend a truly unique individual and one of the finest gentlemen I've had the pleasure to know.

Randy Cuberly