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Author Topic: Hutch's P-38 Lightning  (Read 14800 times)

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #100 on: January 05, 2018, 10:10:02 PM »
 I almost always use nylon control horns on my stuff. When using them it's a good idea to reinforce that mounting area to add strength, and also make the control surface more resistant to crushing when tightening the horns on final installation. Before the control surfaces get their silkspan I've got a routine for this reinforcement using 1/64" plywood and drywall spackling. These photos show reinforcing the elevator for the P-38, it uses two horns, one on each end.
 
 First, I add a 1/64" plywood reinforcement piece to the horn mounting area using CA, doing both the top and bottom of the control surface. Next I'll put a sanding reference around the control surface using some low-tack blue tape. Then goop on the spackling, making sure it's thick enough to fill what will end up being the transition area from the plywood surface back down to the original control surface. It doesn't have to be pretty, just make sure you add enough of it to do the job.
 Let the spackling dry overnight to make sure it's set up well all the way through. Then take a FLAT sanding tool of choice and slowly and carefully sand the spackling down to where it's level and even with the plywood, and the plywood is showing again completely. A sanding bar with 320 works best for this process. Then, start to angle your sanding bar down from the plywood to the original control surface, aiming at the blue tape reference line. Keep sanding at this angle until you've sanded all the way through the spackling right at the tape line. You want your sanding "goal" with all of this to be a straight and level surface from the edge of the plywood over and down to the tape reference line.
 Once you have everything sanded to this point then CAREFULLY remove the blue tape, pulling it off by keeping it flat against the control surface and at an angle away from the spackling. After that the area should just need a minor touch up with some 600 or 800 to completely smooth the transition and have it all ready for silkspan.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 09:36:21 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member


Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #101 on: January 05, 2018, 11:13:34 PM »
Hey Crist, what do you think of this paint scheme?

I like it!  I like it a lot!
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #102 on: January 05, 2018, 11:18:16 PM »
Sweet on the spackle thing.
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
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Online Allan Perret

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #103 on: January 06, 2018, 11:20:10 AM »
What I do in a case like this is to feather the edges of the ply doublers before gluing, eliminating the need for the spackling.
Allan Perret
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Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #104 on: January 06, 2018, 02:35:48 PM »
I do the same as Allan.  I just make the ply piece an eighth of an inch bigger all the way round and feather it out.  Saves all the spackling work.  Love watching this build.....I have got to get back on my F6F.  I turned the fuselage into a banana and it put me in a funk about her.
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #105 on: January 06, 2018, 09:28:16 PM »
 Allan and Glenn's way certainly works well too, and is actually what I used to do. I'm just showing the way I've done it for quite a while now. I've found that done carefully as shown, and after the silkspan and final finish, this spackle routine allows you to "spread out" the transition distance more, leaving a virtually unnoticeable reinforcement. 
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #106 on: January 06, 2018, 09:32:33 PM »
I like it!  I like it a lot!

 I thought you might!  ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #107 on: January 07, 2018, 04:36:43 PM »
Hi wwwarbird, I can certainly see how your feathered edge would be far less conspicuous than mine.  I don't do "real" scale....I'm more of a  stand-way-the-heck-off scale kind of guy.  The way I do it, it looks good from twenty feet away....lol  And I'm real sorry, I didn't mean any disrespect to your way of doing things.
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #108 on: January 07, 2018, 05:53:06 PM »
  And I'm real sorry, I didn't mean any disrespect to your way of doing things.

 None taken at all Glenn, just showing my current method for those who might want to give it a try.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #109 on: January 08, 2018, 10:41:10 AM »
Yes, there are many ways of doing things.   And as one person told me many years ago if you don't try some thing new it might help you.  If it doesn't stash it away in the memory banks as it may help in the future. D>K
I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
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10421 West 56th Terrace
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #110 on: January 12, 2018, 08:00:18 PM »
 The past week has been spent getting all the tail surfaces silkspanned, sanded, primed, sanded again etc. and ready for final attachment. I prep each piece to the point of being 99% ready for color before assembly. Prepping each piece separately like this makes getting the completed airframe ready for final painting much easier when that time arrives, not having to work around everything throughout the prep process. Doing it this way leaves you with pretty much just the fillet work and some very minor sanding prior to painting.

 I had been scratching my head for awhile trying to come up with a slick way to keep the fin/rudder assemblies aligned while curing. I use 30 minute epoxy for that process and didn't care to have to hold them in place all that time. Even more importantly, once they would be set in place I felt the need to be able to step back and eyeball everything, double and triple checking alignments, before the epoxy started to set up.
 
 What I came up with was making a simple alignment jig that slips over the top of the fin/rudder assembly. It incorporates a vertical slot the same width as the thickness of the fin/rudder with a horizontal base that simply rests on the stab, exactly square to the vertical. An angled relief cut was added at the jig base too, to keep it safely away from the glue joint and avoid making the jig part of the airplane. It all worked out perfectly, holding the fin/rudder in place and allowing me to let go of it all and be able to walk around and do my required eyeballing...

 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 08:36:30 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #111 on: January 13, 2018, 10:24:23 AM »
Why didn't you tell me this stuff before I glued the B-25 together.   Lost count how many times I knocked rudders loose while doing what little finish I did.  Any way the P-38 is looking great. D>K

And the saying still goes, "Learn some thing new every day".  Thanks. H^^
I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
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10421 West 56th Terrace
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #112 on: January 19, 2018, 11:12:49 PM »
 This past week has been spent working on the final fitting and function of all the control surfaces. There's only five moveable surfaces, 28 hinge slots, 14 of those to recess, two bellcranks, two flap pushrods, two elevator pushrods with couplers, eight ball joints and four control horns to deal with. Tonight I just finished gluing 10 hinges into the wing T/E, it only took four separate batches of 30 minute epoxy.  n~
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2018, 09:22:15 PM »
What's on the bench?
Crist
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2018, 11:43:50 PM »
What's on the bench?

 Uh, thaaat bench??? It's one of two work benches in my small shop, one that's at "sit down" height and topped with a piece of ceiling tile that holds pins. The other bench is "stand up" height with a 3/8" glass top. The "sit down" one is where I usually frame up wings and other built-up assemblies. Since I haven't had to frame up a wing in quite a while it's gradually turned into a catch all with some rolled up plans and stuff covering up another couple levels of about everything you can think of. It just needs a good cleaning once the '38 gets finished before the next build.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2018, 08:59:45 PM »

 Still working on shaping and fitting the flaps, all FOUR of them. Part of this equation is that they don't go all the way out to the wingtips, there's about a 3" long fixed flap section at each wingtip. To make sure these little wingtip widgets end up aligned properly I made a lite-ply jig of the rib/airfoil outline that includes the flap. The jig then slides onto the wing and holds the flap exactly at neutral. Then I roughed out a piece of T/E stock to create the widget, gluing it on with 15 minute epoxy while aligning it with the flap...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #116 on: January 29, 2018, 09:07:08 PM »

 Shaping the wingtip widgets here. Once the top-view outline was matched up with the flap, and the T/E rounded, it then gets blended into the wing using the same spackle/fill routine as described earlier for the control horn reinforcements. Once filled and sanded to satisfaction they will get covered with silkspan and finally smoothed into the wing...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #117 on: February 01, 2018, 08:31:17 PM »

 The past few evenings have been spent adding the 1/64" ply control horn reinforcements (x8) to the four flap sections. Then spackle filled and sanded the transitions, final overall sanding/shaping, and now silkspanning. Tedium.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #118 on: February 19, 2018, 08:17:53 PM »
 
 All four flaps are finished with silkspan, primed, sanded and attached. Next I'll go around and drill/pin them with round toothpicks (x28) per my usual routine. Seems I'm at that stage where you work and work and work and nothing looks any different.  D>K
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2018, 06:14:12 PM »

 All four flaps are finished with silkspan, primed, sanded and attached. Next I'll go around and drill/pin them with round toothpicks (x28) per my usual routine. Seems I'm at that stage where you work and work and work and nothing looks any different.  D>K

Yeah, a lot of work especially between all the times you have to go out and shovel the snow!  :D
Crist
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #120 on: February 20, 2018, 07:21:45 PM »
Yeah, a lot of work especially between all the times you have to go out and shovel the snow!  :D

 Thankfully we haven't had to do too much of that this winter, yet.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #121 on: February 21, 2018, 05:26:03 PM »
You do nice work Wayne.  Stay warm.
Crist
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #122 on: February 21, 2018, 06:25:19 PM »

 Thanks Crist, I'm not worth a crap at doing Monokote though.  VD~
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2018, 01:54:12 PM »
Thanks Crist, I'm not worth a crap at doing Monokote though.  VD~

White Monokote is the easiest to do!
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #124 on: March 01, 2018, 09:11:46 PM »
 Haven't had a chance to spend much time in the shop lately. I have gotten the pushrod exit covers made up this week though and then attached tonight, all four of them. First two pics are of one of the elevator covers, they're on top of the wing and inboard of the booms. The last pic is one of the flap covers, which are under the wing outboard of the booms...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #125 on: March 01, 2018, 09:21:04 PM »
 Oh yeah, last week I (final) attached all four of the flap sections, joiner wires with bearings, and hinges. I think next on the list will be drilling and pinning the hinges.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #126 on: March 10, 2018, 10:16:19 PM »

 Finally got around to pinning the hinges on the wing and flaps tonight. I've offered a separate "how-to" here...

 https://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/'failure-proof'-hinge-pinning/

 
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #127 on: March 10, 2018, 10:17:34 PM »

 Did the fillet work all around the tail surfaces tonight too...

 
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
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Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #128 on: March 11, 2018, 11:56:13 AM »
Nice.
Crist
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2018, 08:05:44 PM »
Nice.

 Thanks Crist. I've resigned myself to "passable" at this point, just trying to get this thing done.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #130 on: March 13, 2018, 12:18:00 PM »
Well don't rush it.  It is looking great to this point.  I'm guilty of rushing the finish on planes as I want to get them flying. D>K
I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #131 on: March 23, 2018, 08:31:20 PM »
 Well, I've actually been chipping away again, one fillet per evening for about the last week or so. This thing had a lot of them, just got the last one finished tonight. I let out a silent cheer in my mind afterward. All of the hinges are now pinned, filled and finish sanded too.

 Next will be to finish bending up the landing gear and getting it glued in. After that this thing might actually be ready for paint.  :)

Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #132 on: March 27, 2018, 09:40:44 PM »
Sweeeet fillets!
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #133 on: March 28, 2018, 03:45:51 PM »
I have to ask - why is this project taking so long?  S?P S?P S?P y1 y1 y1
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #134 on: March 28, 2018, 06:12:08 PM »
I have to ask - why is this project taking so long?  S?P S?P S?P y1 y1 y1

 Howdy Dennis,

 Well, if I didn't have a job I could have built six of these by now.  ;D

 Even with the great head start on the '38 there was still a LOT of work to do, this one is a little more complicated than a Ringmaster. I've ended up changing and/or fixing a fair number of things along the way too. Another thing is that I pretty much only spend time in the shop through the winter months, just can't get myself to hide out in the basement when it's nice outside. FWIW, other than a bit of a start on building a little Tee Dee .09 powered profile Jap Zero I've been only working on the P-38 since I got ahold of it. We're really close to being ready for paint at this point and I've got the graphics sitting here ready to go. Kind of seeing the light at the end now, finally.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #135 on: March 28, 2018, 08:48:15 PM »

 The past couple evenings have been getting the L/G figured out, bent up, and attached. I'm installing the mains first so I'll be able to set it on the wheels and then measure and determine the desired "angle of attack" stance when I'm ready to bend up the nose gear. I fiddled around quite awhile last night and realized I'd never get the mains aligned to match and glued in without a few more hands. In an effort to end up with both wheels pointed in the same general direction I came up with a jig idea to hold everything in place while I poured the epoxy into the L/G slots...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #136 on: March 28, 2018, 08:51:38 PM »

 ...(semi) confident with everything being properly in place it was time to fill the mounting slots with 30 minute epoxy. A few micro balloons were added in the mix too...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #137 on: March 28, 2018, 08:53:38 PM »
 ...all cleaned up and curing, time to cross the fingers and WALK AWAY.  ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #138 on: March 29, 2018, 08:28:44 AM »
Nice idea on using the jig.
Crist
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Waxahachie, TX
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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #139 on: March 29, 2018, 02:21:49 PM »
Stellar jig idea, and it can be used on any airplane.  One jig and drill extra LG clamp holes as needed.  Another great idea I've got off this build thread. H^^
Glenn Reach
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Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #140 on: March 29, 2018, 05:19:22 PM »
Hey Wayne, no need to explain you're tardiness, ha ha. I was only yanking your chain. You've done a great job and I believe the P-38 will fly really well and be very impressive in the air. Unfinished projects and medical problems prevented me from completing it. I really appreciate the job you are doing and my buddy in heaven would be proud of your work.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #141 on: March 29, 2018, 06:19:30 PM »
Hey Wayne, no need to explain you're tardiness, ha ha.

 That's what I thought Dennis, I just figured I'd 'splain the story. I'll be really glad to get this one done though, feeling good to finally be this close.  ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #142 on: March 29, 2018, 06:22:17 PM »
  One jig and drill extra LG clamp holes as needed. H^^

 Didn't even think of that Glenn. Heck, if a guy built enough different planes you could end up having a free cribbage board out of the deal.  ;D

Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #143 on: March 29, 2018, 09:22:54 PM »

 Got the nose gear bent up, tweaked to near perfection, and glued in tonight. The chunk of L/E stock taped to the fuse is for a visual alignment reference when looking from head on. The main gear jig worked out perfectly, both wheels ended up pointing the same direction.  ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #144 on: March 30, 2018, 10:57:35 AM »
Didn't even think of that Glenn. Heck, if a guy built enough different planes you could end up having a free cribbage board out of the deal.  ;D
That's even better.....a landing gear jig and cribbage board!  Can it get any better?  Maybe cup holders?  %^@ H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #145 on: March 30, 2018, 09:26:36 PM »

 On the wheels, at last...

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Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #146 on: March 30, 2018, 09:47:16 PM »
Wayne,
Looks nice. 
But it looks like it has too much "nose up" sitting on the ground.  I always set my tri gear models with just a slight nose up.  Or in other words "just a little positive incidence on the wing".  This prevents a "zooming" take off.

Also I would put just a degree or so of "toe-in" on the mains.

Just what I did on my models. Not a criticism, just food for thought.
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #147 on: March 30, 2018, 10:08:43 PM »
 Good points, and all were considered as I went Crist, but I opted for a more scale appearing stance over what might be considered an optimum "stunt stance".

 I put it on the scale tonight too, first time since way back in this thread. My original RTF estimates are going to be very close. For now I'll just say that other than from the sheer power it will have I don't anticipate it springing off the ground. If you want to bring your lead boots to Polk City I'll let you take it for a spin.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

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Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #148 on: April 01, 2018, 07:39:30 PM »
Good points, and all were considered as I went Crist, but I opted for a more scale appearing stance over what might be considered an optimum "stunt stance".

 I put it on the scale tonight too, first time since way back in this thread. My original RTF estimates are going to be very close. For now I'll just say that other than from the sheer power it will have I don't anticipate it springing off the ground. If you want to bring your lead boots to Polk City I'll let you take it for a spin.

Duly noted on the stunt stance!
If I get up there I'll take ya up on that!
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Crist
AMA 482497
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Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Hutch's P-38 Lightning
« Reply #149 on: April 01, 2018, 08:58:36 PM »
 Looking good Wayne! Wayne is correct, in that when at rest and engines not running, the P-38 sits tail low. When engines are running and making hydraulic pressure, the main gear struts extend a bit and it sits more level. Tough choice when cutting landing gear lengths. A little bit of down control on the take off roll will help it track and stay down until ready to rotate.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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