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Author Topic: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?  (Read 1304 times)

Offline Brian Courtice

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How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« on: January 18, 2022, 09:45:59 PM »
I'm unclear about the most fundamental part of control line...the lines themselves.
With all of the connections from bellcrank to lead, lead to line, line to handle, with various wraps, ties, crimps, thimbles and clips that have to be fabricated to make it all work: after all that, the finished pair of lines need to end up very nearly identical in length.
Is there a clear, complete handle to bellcrank walkthrough available as a reference somewhere?


Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2022, 10:28:53 PM »
I'm unclear about the most fundamental part of control line...the lines themselves.
With all of the connections from bellcrank to lead, lead to line, line to handle, with various wraps, ties, crimps, thimbles and clips that have to be fabricated to make it all work: after all that, the finished pair of lines need to end up very nearly identical in length.
Is there a clear, complete handle to bellcrank walkthrough available as a reference somewhere?
Probably not.  Just do it and adjust it at the handle when you are done.

Ken
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2022, 11:03:46 PM »
   Fred Cronenwett did a video on wrapping lines for YouTube and I'll bet you will find some others there also. Do a search here on Stunthanger, as I know it has been discussed several times. There are VERY few topics that haven't been covered multiple times.

   The basics of it is to pay attention to the bell crank and lead outs all through construction and at some point where you can tell that the bell crank is at neutral, wrap the first lead out. That parts easy. The tricky part is the other lead out. You just need to mark the lire where the line will wrap around the eyelet for the lead outs to be even. it just takes practice to do correctly, and the last one is the really critical one.

   The same goes for the flying lines. I wrap the eyes on one end of a roll of lines just to get warmed up. Do both lines. Lay out your tape measure, anchor the made up end in the grass or weight it down or what ever at zero, then mark the first line. Practice getting the eye right at the mark. Put the mark at the front, side or back of the eye, then wrap as usual. Now the tricky one comes back into play, the last one. pull a little bit of tension on both lines and mark the send line. Put the eye in relation to the mark the same way you did the first one, then wrap as usual. It helps to have all the tools needed for the job within reach. I keep a kit of tools just for making lines. Good sharp small pair of side cutters, small needle nose pliers, two or three pairs of hemostats, 100 foot tape, various sharp object to stick through eyelets to anchor lines or tape measure, Several colors of Sharpies or whatever you like to mark lines with, eyelets, line clips, extra line reels, anything that you think will help you wrap lines. There are several different designs out there for fixtures to hold things that act like a second set of hands and they help. But after you make up 50 or 60 sets of lines you will have figured it all out and just need the two hand on the end of your arms!  You can get them pretty dog gone close, but that is what they make adjustable handle for, and for those that fly hard point handle, they have the little fixture for bending their own custom line clips to certain lengths and keep that tool in the line making case, or buy the "Hello Kitty" commercial clips that Randy Smith sells. Like I mentioned already, it's like anything else with this event, practice makes perfect!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Offline Brian Courtice

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2022, 12:18:06 AM »
That was a great reply Dan.
I like the idea of fabricating a custom made clip to lengthen the shorter line. It would come in handy if your lines were uneven enough to exceed the adjustment length available at the handle. Kind of takes the pressure off for a struggling noob trying to make lines.

Offline Brian Courtice

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2022, 07:23:37 AM »
I found this video. It uses some simple clamping jigs at each end and looks foolproof enough for a first timer to get it right.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2022, 08:23:18 AM »
I found this video. It uses some simple clamping jigs at each end and looks foolproof enough for a first timer to get it right.


   Yep, that's the video I was referring to. Jim Lee has a neat little tool for storing and dispensing wrapping wire also, that I forgot to mention. He also has the line clip bending fixture I mentioned. Jim has all sorts of heat items that makes modeling life much easier. Check him out if you see him at a contest, his section in the vendors corner, or his website. One thing that you need to establish is how you figure line length. The AMA rules and most contest rules call for the distance from the center of the handle to the center line of the model fuselage. So, if you have a set of lines that measure 58 feet, that will make the over all line length different on a Nobler than it will on Skylark or some other larger or smaller model because of the wingspan and lead out length differences. This is ne reason for having a specific set of lines and handle for each model you fly on any kind of regular basis. It's a good idea that once you feel that you have your newest model trimmed out pretty well, make up a spare set of lines for it exactly the length that you have already and make the reel accordingly.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2022, 08:55:03 AM »
I found this video. It uses some simple clamping jigs at each end and looks foolproof enough for a first timer to get it right.

I don't like making lines outside -- it always seems to be dark, cold, rainy, or all three when I need to make lines, and all the otherwise convenient spots end up with lines being dragged over gravel.

So I made this fixture -- one wrap around those black posts is exactly* five feet.  That, plus driving finishing nails into the thing at measured points, means I can make lines up to whatever distance I need, in the comfort of my shop. 

After looking at the video, though, I think I'll be adding a clamp to the end of it like Fred has -- that looks to be the bee's knees for holding everything tight while you're working.

* That's a woodworker's "exactly", not a machinist's or engineer's "exactly".
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2022, 09:49:05 AM »
I liked the video.  The principle has been around for a while.

A couple of comments:

1.  It would work just as well with a single pin at each end.  Then one line won't get in the way while you wrap the other.  Single tool concept.  All products come off the exact same fixture.

2.  If I make one, it will have more hand clearance.

3. Add up the total length of handle, two clips and the leadouts.  Subtract this number from the desired to true length to get eye-to-eye.
Paul Smith

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2022, 12:59:02 PM »
I don't like making lines outside -- it always seems to be dark, cold, rainy, or all three when I need to make lines, and all the otherwise convenient spots end up with lines being dragged over gravel.

So I made this fixture -- one wrap around those black posts is exactly* five feet.  That, plus driving finishing nails into the thing at measured points, means I can make lines up to whatever distance I need, in the comfort of my shop. 

After looking at the video, though, I think I'll be adding a clamp to the end of it like Fred has -- that looks to be the bee's knees for holding everything tight while you're working.

* That's a woodworker's "exactly", not a machinist's or engineer's "exactly".
Now that is a good idea.  I still question why we even try and make the lines *exactly* the same length when most of us use a different handle for each plane and have to tinker with the handle adjustment anyway.  Anything up to a 1/4" or so is close enough for both leadouts and lines.   Lots of folks stagger their leadouts by 4-6" or so anyway so a set of lines for them is going to be different lengths.  I still try and get them close but exact?  I like the Woodworkers Exact!  I was a machinist in my wasted youth and we had a joke about government work that had specs of .0005 +- 1/4" LL~

Stretching the lines out attached to a single nail, pulling them tight together then marking where you want the eyelet to center will get them close enough.

Ken
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2022, 02:11:32 PM »
Now that is a good idea.

Thanks

I still question why we even try and make the lines *exactly* the same length when most of us use a different handle for each plane and have to tinker with the handle adjustment anyway.

Because if I try for equal length lines, then I won't need one 1/2" long line clip and one 3" long line clip.

Lots of folks stagger their leadouts by 4-6" or so anyway so a set of lines for them is going to be different lengths.

I do that.  I also hang my planes from their leadouts for storage (yes, I'm aware of the perceived downsides -- haven't seen it happen yet).

I don't have a picture, but for each plane I make a little hanger that holds the leadouts just right for the bellcrank to be as close to neutral as I can get it.  This does two things: first, I can hang the plane so it's not hanging by one leadout; second when I make up my lines, I use that hanger as a fixture to get exactly the right amount of differential in the line length.  And, once again, I avoid some really absurd differential in the line clip length.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2022, 02:47:54 PM »
Thanks

Because if I try for equal length lines, then I won't need one 1/2" long line clip and one 3" long line clip.

I do that.  I also hang my planes from their leadouts for storage (yes, I'm aware of the perceived downsides -- haven't seen it happen yet).

I don't have a picture, but for each plane I make a little hanger that holds the leadouts just right for the bellcrank to be as close to neutral as I can get it.  This does two things: first, I can hang the plane so it's not hanging by one leadout; second when I make up my lines, I use that hanger as a fixture to get exactly the right amount of differential in the line length.  And, once again, I avoid some really absurd differential in the line clip length.
Another good idea.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2022, 08:16:57 PM »
Ummm. I feel like an idiot. What are "Hello Kitty" line clips? All I see is a silly little cartoonish kitty...nothing remotely useable on airplanes in any way.

I've seen fishing line clips and Jim Lee's clip bending tool.

Thanks in advance,

Offline Craig Beswick

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2022, 08:53:00 PM »
I believe theses are, "Hello Kitty", line clips. But I may be wrong!
AUS 87123
"The Ninja"

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2022, 05:31:11 PM »
Yer do a pair of ends , the other ends undone .
Run em out , untwirl them . Get a thing to stretch them abit .

So the made ends staked , the free ends together , and neutralised , bend over both on the same straight edge edge , piece of 1/8 wire , or whatever . Or use mega sticky tape ! .

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2022, 09:06:52 PM »
Ummm. I feel like an idiot. What are "Hello Kitty" line clips? All I see is a silly little cartoonish kitty...nothing remotely useable on airplanes in any way.

I've seen fishing line clips and Jim Lee's clip bending tool.

Thanks in advance,

I only know because I was told the story.

Someone -- I can't remember who -- sold sets of line clips in a bunch of different sizes.  They were in little ziplock bags that were bought surplus, and had the Hello Kitty logo on them.

So, an unofficial brand was born...
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2022, 05:30:59 PM »
Ummm. I feel like an idiot. What are "Hello Kitty" line clips? All I see is a silly little cartoonish kitty...nothing remotely useable on airplanes in any way.

I've seen fishing line clips and Jim Lee's clip bending tool.

Thanks in advance,

  Shown above. They originally came in a plastic bag with a "hello kitty" logo on it. Some wise-ass took one look at the bag and in less than two seconds, named them "Hello Kitty" clips. The rest is stunt history.

   Brett

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: How to make sure both lines come out equal in length?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2022, 07:38:49 PM »
Maybe you guys will find humor in this...I've spent cumulative hours looking at "Hello Kitty branded-anything" anytime I passed the brand name trying to find a component that can be removed/used as line clips. I can be a bit OCD about some things, for example, just look at the inventory of kits I have for "that day" I no longer have to work. I hope to still build and fly then.

I used to fix laser printers. Once I discovered the distributor advance springs in my Triumph TR6 are just about impossible to source, I discovered a spring inside an HP laserjet 4200 that matched length and tension close enought to work. Anytime "the company" sold/replaced a 4200, I would find time to strip the onsolete printer to acquire the spring. I think I have 20 of them squirreled away someplace now. I know for a fact five are with the extra distributors I have for that car.

Knowing the backstory means I can let one more obsession go. Thanks much, Gents!
 ;D


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