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Author Topic: Ball links  (Read 3388 times)

Offline Rick Bollinger

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Ball links
« on: November 17, 2012, 01:00:52 AM »
I am doing a Sig Twister wing and I am wanting to go with ball links at the bellcrank and flaps. I have never used them before and what I have is Dubro 6-32 heavy duty #2266. Are these the right ones? And besides screwing the rod in two far are there any other possible concerns? Thanks Rick
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 06:29:36 AM »
Most use the 4-40 ball links, even on 60 size birds.  So 6-32 would be overkill on a Twister.
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Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 11:36:29 AM »
OK thanks
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 11:48:52 AM »
Most use the 4-40 ball links, even on 60 size birds.  So 6-32 would be overkill on a Twister.

There have been problems here in the Southwest with the small DuBro Ball links where they get bound up and loose their freedom of motion.  We have had several models equipped with those ball links where the controls literally froze up.  We have not had that kind of problem with the large DuBro ball links, other brands, or the ball links that the RC car guys use.

Keith

Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 07:21:42 AM »
Do you have the Du-Bro part numbers so that I can see what to stay away from and what not to?
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 03:03:46 PM »
Keith, thanks for posting that because here in the northern midwest we had MANY 100+ degree days last summer and if that should become a two or three year event, we appreciate being forwarned.  I have two good flying ships with the 4-40 DuBros in them, so need to do a lot of preflight checking should the weather repeat.  (Gads, I hope it doesn't!) ~^ ~^ ~^
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Trostle

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 03:25:58 PM »
We have not figured out what the problem has been here in Tucson.   As I mentioned, we have had two stunters where the DuBro ball links have had a problem.  One was almost completely "frozen", the other very stiff where it was not flyable.  It might be a combination of temperature and low humidity that got to the those things.  The small DuBro links, whether the 4-40 bolt ons, or the 2-56 threaded balls or the 1/16" threaded ball are not the problem.  It is the nylon cap that goes on over the balls.  This has not been a problem with the large DuBro links and I do not think anybody here is using any of the really small micro ball links (except some can be seen on some of these 1/2A profile scale planes here - no problems with those).  I

It could be just a random thing with these two airplanes and those DuBro ball links, but it is enough for me not to want to use them.  I gave up on those "medium" sized DuBro links some time ago because I do not like the almost too flimsy couplers that usually need to be used.  I still prefer the ball links that come from the race car counter at the hobby shop.

It would be interesting to know if there are others who have had a problem with these medium sized DuBro links.

Offline Bob Johnson

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 03:28:40 PM »
Hey Rick, are you fixing your old Twister or making a new one? Stop by the shop (call me) and I'll be happy to show you what's worked for me. All the best.

Bob

Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 08:37:13 PM »
Bob, Fixing the one I crashed at Sig. Building a new wing and want to do some upgrading. Will call, Thanks
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Offline Leester

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 03:49:15 PM »
I always bought my ball links from Tom Morris.
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Offline dirty dan

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 12:13:08 PM »
While I have seen very little evidence that previous suggestions from this quarter have been believed, I will take at least one more shot at it.

There are ball links readily available from any decent hobby shop which stocks Associated RC car parts. (And there are other brands as well.) All one one need do is to saunter over to that section of the shop and ask to see a selection of ball links as used in both steering and suspension linkage of RC cars.

You will be stunned, although your first impression will be, "Dirt's gone stoopid on us! These things can't possibly be reliable!"

While that's not exactly the reaction I got from Roy DeCamara when demonstrating these things, prompted by his description of mildly seized ball links in a couple models, it was far from certain he was convinced.

Okay. First point. Note the weight of your average off- or on-road RC car. Note the speed at which they can travel. Ask where these cars are being run, whether in competition or just for sport. If you have a choice go for an area where concrete curbs are involved. You tell me what the forces might be as cars bang into each other, into curbs and so on.

Second point. While these links feature very low friction they can actually be a bitch to remove. As in when making adjustments even though the car is sitting on a bench. So manufacturers began selling steel (and titanium if you like trick stuff!) balls which accept a hex key. The nylon link itself has a hole drilled in the top of the cup and through this one inserts a hex key, neatly removing the ball itself. Adjustments are made, ball replaced, all without messing with removing the nylon link.

Third point. My first Impact used Morris-supplied ball links at the 'crank and flap horn but Associated hardware at the elevator. It's real narrow back there, I wanted as little friction as possible but I also wanted adjustability. All right, back then I also had questions as to durability. So the idea was that if wear became a factor this was the one link which was easily accessible. While the model is now history it had nothing to do with linkage and it died with the first Assiociated ball link assembly installed.

I have since used cited ball links on all manner of CL Stunt models, ranging from two more Impacts, all three Wimpacts, an Oriental and so on.

So while they are not the only option out there you're making a mistake in not at least knowing about them, thus considering them for your next control system.

Personal note to Mr. Trostle: Above is serious input and I know you to like this sort of thing, plus at least in your area there is a problem with some of the more normal ball link arrangements. I am interested in your response.

Dan

P.S. Sorry, but the above sounds as if maybe Associated links continue to be used in my models but only for the elevator link. Not so. They are typically used thoughout my control systems and with only few exceptions. The option of removing entire ball and link assembly when making adjustments has also been enthusiastically embraced as has another option, that of making pushrods into turnbuckles. Former for major adjustments or plugging in entirely new pushrod; latter for fine adjustments at flying field. dan

Dan Rutherford

Offline Trostle

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 07:35:03 PM »

Personal note to Mr. Trostle: Above is serious input and I know you to like this sort of thing, plus at least in your area there is a problem with some of the more normal ball link arrangements. I am interested in your response.

Dan


Dan,

I do not think we have any argument here.  I know you have a lot of serious experience with the RC cars.  If the ball links used in those things hold up, I am convinced they will withstand any of the loads we put on them with our airplanes.  I have used Team Associated ball links, RPM ball links, Team Tecnacraft ball links over the years.  (Some of these are not available anymore.)  I have used these on all of my flap and elevator horns.  On the Bearcat, there is no more play in them now than there was over 1,000 flights and 12 years ago.  They held up to a full power belly-flopper that pushed the gear back to touch the wing.    I have had two airplanes go in full power and straight down (handle cable failure - totally avoidable) and the ball links stayed together.  I do not think those small DuBro links could stand up to that kind of abuse, plus those DuBro caps need too small of a coupler that can fail as one did for me once.  Plus, as mentioned before, it is those small DuBro links that have caused some seizing problems here in Tucson on several occasions.

Keith

Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 09:40:43 PM »
I did order some from Tom Morris earlier this week. But if some of you could post some name and part numbers of ones that have worked. And some to stay away from. That would be great. I have no experence with using them at all. With part numbers I can look them up and at least get a visual. Thanks Rick
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 06:56:02 AM »
I did order some from Tom Morris earlier this week. But if some of you could post some name and part numbers of ones that have worked. And some to stay away from. That would be great. I have no experence with using them at all. With part numbers I can look them up and at least get a visual. Thanks Rick
Dubro #899     heavy duty 4-40
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Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2012, 11:41:17 AM »
Thanks Allan
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2012, 12:03:54 PM »
Dubro #899     heavy duty 4-40

Are these the ones Tom offers?

Charles
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Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2012, 04:42:22 PM »
I think so. I recieved them today and they look the same. I did not recieve the small cone standoff's are these normally not used? Seems like they would be of benefit for more clearance. Rick
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Offline Dave Rountree

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2012, 10:25:58 AM »
could be possible on external ball links that exhaust oil residue gummed up the ball joint. just a thought.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2012, 02:21:27 PM »
could be possible on external ball links that exhaust oil residue gummed up the ball joint. just a thought.

The ball links we have had problems with here have all been internal.  No oil.  No oil residue.

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 08:37:35 AM »
  while working for the TORO lawn mower Co we ran into a problem ,for cost reduction they replaced some Bronze bushings with plastic ( nylon ) bushings . in the first month of testing they swelled up and the shaft would not move and had to be honed out to finish the test
rad racer

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Ball links
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 01:59:18 PM »
I had ball links drag in cold weather. Suddenly the controls on my Twister were stiff. Since it was all out in the open I oiled them. That freed them up. Of course I could eyeball them for wear and see if the oil attacked anything causing slop and potential failure. No problem for the next fifty flights or so. Then, one winter day, fuel ran out and the engine quit at the cross of an over head eight... Splat.


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