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Author Topic: Cutlass XL....more pictures  (Read 4959 times)

Offline Derek Barry

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Cutlass XL....more pictures
« on: September 12, 2012, 10:38:26 AM »
My new plane is under construction. After two take apart planes one of which was very heavy I decided to built a non take apart plane for next year.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 05:24:47 AM by Derek Barry »

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 10:44:31 AM »
2

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 10:45:03 AM »
3

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 10:45:44 AM »
4

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 10:46:40 AM »
Blue foam mold for turtle deck. Thanks Bob!

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 10:47:21 AM »
6

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 10:48:23 AM »
Millennium wing construction.


Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 10:56:00 AM »
more wing stuff

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 10:58:14 AM »
I realized that I was grabbing pictures from the wrong folder, I can include more per post now.  HB~>

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 10:59:36 AM »
going together in my granite jig.

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 11:00:54 AM »
wing and stab installed.

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 11:02:45 AM »
Turtle deck and top block on. Removable tail wheel mount.

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 11:05:10 AM »
Cowl shaped, gear blocks in, and pipe tunnel almost done.

The bottom block has been glued on as of now but I have not taken any pictures in the last couple days. I will post more pictures soon.

Derek

Online Matt Colan

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 11:12:59 AM »
2

That PA has certainly seen better days!

Looks great Derek!!! That paint scheme you picked is gonna be AWESOME!

Matt Colan

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 11:24:16 AM »
That PA has certainly seen better days!

Looks great Derek!!! That paint scheme you picked is gonna be AWESOME!



That is a heat treated 65...

Derek

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2012, 11:29:06 AM »
sanded those flaps yet?  #^
Steve

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2012, 12:09:09 PM »
sanded those flaps yet?  #^

Hell no.....still procrastinating...

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2012, 01:11:50 PM »
That is a heat treated 65...

Derek

HI Derek,

I am sure this will be a great looking model!  BTW: I noticed the "fire survivor" PA, don't think any of us want them "heat treated" that way.  But glad to see things are back to normal or even better!

BIG Bear
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2012, 06:04:09 PM »
Cutlass XL, who's design is that ?
Allan Perret
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2012, 06:51:56 PM »
Veeery impressive, gave me some ideas I will incorporate into my next SV project.  8)
Pete Cunha
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2012, 09:41:21 PM »
Lookin real  good... I am glad the lollygagger  hasn't shown up yet :-)    ;D ;D ;D

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2012, 04:29:33 AM »
Cutlass XL, who's design is that ?

Well, in my quest to have original planes or at least ones that nobody has seen or built before I called Randy and told him about the "look" I was going for. After much discussion he said that he had something similar to what I wanted. (a clipped wing Dreadnought/Tempest/Matrix/ hybrid) He said that years ago he was working on something for himself but never finished it. It was the Cutlass, designed around the PA 51. He sent me some partial plans and gave me instructions on what to change to make it suitable for the 65. I took his advice and made the necessary changes to the wing and stab. I used the Matrix vertical fin/rudder, a deeper fuselage, and the Dreadnought style canopy. It really is all over the place and not truly a "Cutlass" but I like the name so I just added XL to the end. I guess to answer the original question, it is a Smith/Barry design.

Derek

Offline Airacobra

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2012, 07:08:30 AM »
Derek, is there no plywood doublers in the nose?
Keith Bryant

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2012, 07:19:54 AM »
Derek, is there no plywood doublers in the nose?

Nope, just balsa. I don't like sanding plywood.

Derek

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2012, 04:57:14 AM »
I started covering with carbon. I have always used silkspan but I decided to try somthing different on this one. Hope it works like I want it to. I like it so far, it goes around the compound curves very well.

Derek

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2012, 06:17:07 AM »
Wow Derrick!

Your first post was on the 12th. It is now the 14th. That is super fast!

All kidding aside, it looks great.
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2012, 06:38:31 AM »
Wow Derrick!

Your first post was on the 12th. It is now the 14th. That is super fast!

All kidding aside, it looks great.

Thanks Tom, all kidding aside, that is about 3.5 weeks worth of work. I have been building like crazy.

Derek

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2012, 09:32:16 AM »
Derek, that "motor" looks like you had a prop strike and the ESC burned up? LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ HB~> HB~>
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2012, 09:22:39 AM »
Derek, that "motor" looks like you had a prop strike and the ESC burned up? LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ HB~> HB~>

You know it!!! LL~

Derek

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2012, 05:15:48 AM »
Finished covering the nose and stab...

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2012, 05:17:33 AM »
Shaped the sides of the fuse to allow for the canopy.

Painted in auto primer

then sanded.

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2012, 05:19:06 AM »
Painted the cockpit polar grey...

Now I just need to finish the instrument panel and button up the canopy.

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2012, 05:21:35 AM »
And now the rudder is glued on.

 It's coming together now, I hope to be painting soon.

One day I will taper the flaps...

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2012, 05:23:46 AM »
Here is the pilot, I have not decided whether to use the yellow face shield or not.

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2012, 06:03:44 AM »
Derrick,
Looking better and better. Good to see some cockpit detail. Even a simple cockpit shows more effort than the painted on "cockpit" I feel that this is one of the small things that should make the difference between 1st or 2nd & 3rd row. Of cource that is my opinion. 
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2012, 06:05:21 AM »
Derrick,
Looking better and better. Good to see some cockpit detail. Even a simple cockpit shows more effort than the painted on "cockpit" I feel that this is one of the small things that should make the difference between 1st or 2nd & 3rd row. Of cource that is my opinion. 

I agree, thats why all my planes have cockpit detail.

Derek

Offline Trostle

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2012, 12:15:32 AM »
Derrick,
Looking better and better. Good to see some cockpit detail. Even a simple cockpit shows more effort than the painted on "cockpit" I feel that this is one of the small things that should make the difference between 1st or 2nd & 3rd row. Of cource that is my opinion. 

"a simple cockpit shows more effort than the painted on 'cockpit'"

Not necessarily.  The event is judged for appearance.  A nicely done painted on canopy with trim that compliments the overall appearance of the model can look better than a "simple cockpit" not done well.  I can remember one year when I was one of three appearance judges at the Nats.  After we were through with the alignment by rows, we did a quick walk through of all of the rows to check if we had the right alignment.  When we were finished and looked at the models in the front rows, we realized that something like 4 of the top 6 or 8 airplanes in those first two rows had painted on canopies.  And I for one am not a big fan of painted on canopies.  I do not remember the airplanes or any of the details, but if I remember right, there was not a 20 point row that year.

Keith

Offline Trostle

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2012, 12:15:54 AM »
Derrick,
Looking better and better. Good to see some cockpit detail. Even a simple cockpit shows more effort than the painted on "cockpit" I feel that this is one of the small things that should make the difference between 1st or 2nd & 3rd row. Of cource that is my opinion. 

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2012, 09:28:10 AM »
Cockpit detail can be well done or terrible. That is all part of the consideration.

I don't think that there is anything worse than using Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck type figures for a pilot.

I agree that there are cases that a painted on canopy could be better.

 All I am saying is that canopy detail should be part of the consideration. Certainly a Ron Burns or Charlie Lickliter Ballerina III cockpit is superior to a paint-on every time. But a simple cockpit can be well done.

Again, a nicely done cockpit along with all the other appearance considerations should be make a difference.
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Offline Gene O'Keefe

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2012, 12:59:30 PM »
Derek...what are you using to adhere the carbon veil to the airframe ?
Thx.

   Geno
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2012, 01:42:31 PM »
Derek...what are you using to adhere the carbon veil to the airframe ?
Thx.

   Geno

Hey Gene,

I use Nitrate to put it on. I applied 3 coats of barely thinned nitrate, maybe 30%, to the bare wood parts prior to covering. Sandind with 220 grit sandpaper between each coat. I then used heavily thinned Nitrate, maybe 75% to apply the carbon. I went back over that with some 50-50 nitrate/thinner for another 3 coats or until it looked and felt sealed. I sanded that with 400 grit sandpaper before moving to the primer that you see in the early cockpit photos. That was followed by polar grey dope, wet sanded and sprayed again. That is what you see in the finished cockpit area.

Derek

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2012, 03:46:08 PM »
Cockpit detail can be well done or terrible. That is all part of the consideration.

I don't think that there is anything worse than using Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck type figures for a pilot.

I agree that there are cases that a painted on canopy could be better.

 All I am saying is that canopy detail should be part of the consideration. Certainly a Ron Burns or Charlie Lickliter Ballerina III cockpit is superior to a paint-on every time. But a simple cockpit can be well done.

Again, a nicely done cockpit along with all the other appearance considerations should be make a difference.

HI TOM ..   All

Below is the judging guide, it does cover Canopies... see below

                                                                          Appearance Judging Guidelines

   Judging appearance in the Precision Aerobatics Event is a subjective process just as is awarding points for flight maneuvers.  In every contest a set of models are presented for judging.  The object of the judging process is to assign points to the models in the correct order, with the appropriate differential, in that contest.  Consistent, predictable results can be realized only through training and adherence to established guidelines.  It is strongly suggested that the event director brief the appearance judges on and stress adherence to the following guidelines.  Preparation would be enhanced by a short evaluation of several models, followed by debriefing and critique.  This parallels the proven process used for the flight judges.  This is particularly important at national and major regional contest.

   Model presented for judging will be judged as presented. Precon-ceived opinions, such as model type, (ie: semiscale vs. classic), color selection, model design, etc. are not appropriate to the process.

The major factor in assigning points is the execution in the model’s construction and finish.  A general example of (relative position) would be equally constructed and finished models, one a full blown competition model, the other a basic, simple model.  Given that the models are indeed equal in finish and construction, the more complete/complex plane would be awarded more points.

The Process

   Appearance judging should not be a random process, but should evaluate the presented model in a methodical system.  This will insure a uniform, fair approach and award of points. The following is offered as an orderly methodology; additional specific amplification of judging criteria is provided in the appendix.

STEP 1: Individual Appraisal
              
                Flying Surfaces - Construction – consider structure; smooth,                  
                straight, and uniform. Surfaces precisely aligned, with mating
                surfaces properly fitted.  Straight, uniform edges proper hinge
                execution.

              
 STEP 1: Individual Appraisal (cont.)
              
                Finish – Color – all colors uniformly applied and consistent in
                density.  Color separations smooth and clearly defined.  Ink lines
                uniform width and density.

                Surface – all grain filled and surfaces polished and glossy.  Color
                patterns applied in a balanced manner, top and bottom of the plane
                equally finished.

                Fuselage Construction- Symmetry – Smooth integration of mating
                surfaces, such as cowling, hatches and fillets.  Functional opening
                precisely executed with tight uniform joints.

         Finish – Surface smooth and flowing. Color application consistent
                with location, surface preparation consistent over entire aircraft.

                Summary – General – After examining each model; judges will
                have an opinion on their individual worth. Note that appearance    
                points are not assigned now.

STEP 2: Comparison and Appraisal:
            
               At this point in the process, the models are compared to each other.
        The object is to place the models in order of their worth, as deter-  
               mined in step one.  There will be examples of equal value, for
               differing reasons, and there will be a varying disparities.

Step 3:  Assigning Point Values:

               Once the models are arranged in groups, points can be assigned.
               Points on a specific model may vary from contest to contest, as the
               process is designed to provide comparison of models at one
               contest.  However, as the process is followed, the range of award
               should be relatively narrow.  Because groups are adjacent does not
               mean there should be a difference of only one point.  Rather, the
               assigning of point value should again reflect the group worth.  The
               best group of airplanes should be assigned best score, but not
               necessarily a maximum or near maximum score.  Likewise, the low
 Step 3:  Assigning Point Values:  (cont.)
 
               group may not be assigned a minimum value.  Inbetween groups
               should be assigned scores relative to their value between the high
               and low groups.  It is possible to be skewed low or high in this
               relationship.  The important point is that the award reflect the
               differential worth.

Summary

   The process described generally follows the process that has evolved over the years at the national level.  There are adjustments and insights added to improve uniformity.  It is a subjective process, but the results should reflect the actual values of the models submitted for judging.  There-fore, it is strongly suggested that the process be followed at all precision Aerobatics contests.  For contests where PAMPA skill classes are flown, classes may be combined for appearance judging.

One Appendix:
Appendix:

INDIVIDUAL APPRAISAL                                                                

Specific Details for consideration
Note:  Specific details mentioned as examples are not intended to infer requirements.  They are provided as sample differentiators to aid in separating apparently equal  models.

Fillets
Fillets should be smooth and consistent in size.  They should feather into the adjoining surfaces with no visible ridges or unevenness.  Size of the fillets is in general a matter of the modeler’s preference and should not normally be a consideration in appearance assessment.

Detailed Canopy/Cockpit Vs. Painted Canopy
A well-done detailed cockpit with molded canopy should score better than   well-done painted-on canopy.  Conversely, a well-done realistic painted-on canopy/cockpit should score better than a poorly done molded canopy/cockpit.

Rubbed-out Finish
A well-done rubbed out finish should be very shiny with no sanding scratches showing.  The surface of the model should be “flat”; that is , there should  be no ripples in the surface caused by uneven sanding out of the clear coat.  There should be no “rub-throughs” that affect the color under the clear coat.  There should be no wood or paper grain showing.  There should be no ridges where one color transitions to another. (tape lines)

Plastic Finishes
Plastic coverings, ie., monocoat, ultracoat, etc., have the potential to provide high gloss finishes.  They should be considered exactly the same as other finishing process.  Joining overlaps, aircraft structure, trim application seams and surface tautness are but a few of the possible flaws in this type of finishing technique.

Semi-scale Airplanes
Not all finishes have to be “shiny”.  A semi-scale war-bird with a well done uniformly matte finish should not be downgraded because it is not shiny.  In fact this finish may be more difficult to achieve than a shiny finish.
Appendix:

INDIVIDUAL APPRAISAL                                                                

Specific Details for consideration (cont.)

Ink Lines
An airplane with well-done ink lines enhances the appearance of an airplane.  Poorly done ink lines should score lower than had the ink lines been omitted.

Mating Surfaces (hinge lines, hatches, cowlings)
Hinge lines should be uniform.  The gap should be consistent from one end to the other and in most cases the gap should be very small.  There should be no paint build up in the hinge line.  If the hinges are painted, they should be uniform in appearance.  Hinge pockets should be neat and uniform from hinge to hinge.
Cowling and hatches should fit uniformly with no gaps or ridges showing.  There should be no paint missing at the joining edges (chipping off or rub through).

Landing Gear
All things equal, well detailed wheel pants should award higher than plain wheel pants or simple fairings.  A semi-scale airplane with appropriate scale like fairings would be an exception.

Tape Lines
Uniform tape lines contribute significantly to the aesthetic appearance of a stunt plane.  Tape lines should be smooth with no jagged areas and there should not be a visible ridge showing.

Wear and Tear
Un-repaired or poorly repaired damage, yellowing of the finish, cracks in the finish, or other signs of aging must reduce the points that otherwise might be awarded.  Age of the airplane should not be a consideration in awarding of appearance points, as long as it has been well maintained and shows no signs of deterioration.


                  

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2012, 03:51:59 PM »
"a simple cockpit shows more effort than the painted on 'cockpit'"

Not necessarily.  The event is judged for appearance.  A nicely done painted on canopy with trim that compliments the overall appearance of the model can look better than a "simple cockpit" not done well.  I can remember one year when I was one of three appearance judges at the Nats.  After we were through with the alignment by rows, we did a quick walk through of all of the rows to check if we had the right alignment.  When we were finished and looked at the models in the front rows, we realized that something like 4 of the top 6 or 8 airplanes in those first two rows had painted on canopies.  And I for one am not a big fan of painted on canopies.  I do not remember the airplanes or any of the details, but if I remember right, there was not a 20 point row that year.

Keith

Hi Keith

I agree  , however i will say this, it needs to be realistic as stated in the guidelines, NOT  metallic Green ,orange, purple, or spotted, I have never seen a canopy those colors...or a solid one at that. making one silver grey, or light blue, or another color to simulate a tinted real canopy is different,

excerpt from the guidelines:

"Detailed Canopy/Cockpit Vs. Painted Canopy
A well-done detailed cockpit with molded canopy should score better than   well-done painted-on canopy.  Conversely, a well-done realistic painted-on canopy/cockpit should score better than a poorly done molded canopy/cockpit."
.


Offline Doug Moon

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2012, 03:38:30 PM »
Painted on or pilot with detail makes no difference.  

Which ever you choose is your business.  

It is all about execution of the attempt when it comes to scoring it.
Doug Moon
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Dougmoon12@yahoo.com

Offline Aaron Little

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Re: Cutlass XL....more pictures
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2012, 05:28:34 PM »
Been following on facebook really like this one.


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