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Author Topic: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa  (Read 2388 times)

Offline Steven Kientz

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engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« on: March 15, 2017, 02:13:24 PM »
I am curious if anyone has tried foam instead of cross grain balsa in an engine crutch. Currently building a new fuse for a Tutor II wing  and I'm building the crutch before cutting out the space in the fuse. I've already glued in balsa was just curious.

thanks
Steve
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 06:07:39 PM »
I don't think there's any foam material that would work in place of cross-grain balsa.  You need the crutch to be dimensionally stable, and the balsa provides that.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 06:50:12 PM »
There is a hgh density foam that machinests use to proof CNC process before dedicating a chunk of metal, ,dont know any more about it than that, but its almost a plastic it is so dense,, and it machines easy,,

but I still think thats not the best solution
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Offline Chris Brainard

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 10:11:29 PM »
I've used the blue foam from Home Depot between the maple motor mounts in place of balsa on the last dozen or so planes I've built, BUT, I cap both the top and bottom of the mounts with 1/32" plywood. Engine runs have been excellent. I believe the foam acts like a shock absorber and "kills" vibration from getting to the tank. Usually, I use 3/8" square maple engine mounts. Sandwiching the maple mounts and foam between the plywood caps makes a very rigid crutch assembly.
Chris

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 07:37:58 AM »
I've used the blue foam from Home Depot between the maple motor mounts in place of balsa on the last dozen or so planes I've built, BUT, I cap both the top and bottom of the mounts with 1/32" plywood. Engine runs have been excellent. I believe the foam acts like a shock absorber and "kills" vibration from getting to the tank. Usually, I use 3/8" square maple engine mounts. Sandwiching the maple mounts and foam between the plywood caps makes a very rigid crutch assembly.
Chris
Have you used this method with 60 size motors ?  What is the weight differential with blue foam and 2 ply caps vs lite balsa for the amount used in a motor crutch ?
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Offline Chris Brainard

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 09:22:59 AM »
Yes, I've used this on .60 sized stunters. I haven't done a weight comparison since I also relieve the thickness of the maple next to the foam and eliminate F1.
Chris

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 10:54:40 AM »
I've used the blue foam from Home Depot between the maple motor mounts in place of balsa on the last dozen or so planes I've built, BUT, I cap both the top and bottom of the mounts with 1/32" plywood. Engine runs have been excellent. I believe the foam acts like a shock absorber and "kills" vibration from getting to the tank. Usually, I use 3/8" square maple engine mounts. Sandwiching the maple mounts and foam between the plywood caps makes a very rigid crutch assembly.
Chris

That feels like it should work.  Like Allan, I'm not sure how much weight you'd be saving, but it feels like a valid method to me.
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Offline Chris Brainard

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 12:43:03 PM »
The intent behind using the foam was never based on potential weight savings, although it has turned out to be a side benefit. Initially, I used 1/8" x 3/8" maple glued up in a Warren Truss configuration between the engine mounting beams under the tank, again sandwiched between two layers of 1/32" plywood, and started having fuel foaming problems. This happened on three different models, all using this type crutch. I concluded it was too stiff and transmitting harmonic vibrations straight into the tank. The foam insert solved the problem. Balsa might have worked too, but I never tried it since even contest grade weighs more than the foam. The plywood doesn't significantly contribute to the weight since the maple is relieved down to 1/8" wide under the tank. The composite structure is rigid, light and easy to build flat...and eliminates F1.
Chris

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 12:58:14 PM »
The intent behind using the foam was never based on potential weight savings, although it has turned out to be a side benefit. Initially, I used 1/8" x 3/8" maple glued up in a Warren Truss configuration between the engine mounting beams under the tank, again sandwiched between two layers of 1/32" plywood, and started having fuel foaming problems. This happened on three different models, all using this type crutch. I concluded it was too stiff and transmitting harmonic vibrations straight into the tank. The foam insert solved the problem. Balsa might have worked too, but I never tried it since even contest grade weighs more than the foam. The plywood doesn't significantly contribute to the weight since the maple is relieved down to 1/8" wide under the tank. The composite structure is rigid, light and easy to build flat...and eliminates F1.
Chris
Eliminating F1, you did that because you felt like your crutch construction had addional strength to where F1 wasn't needed ?  I can see the added benefit of easy tank installation without an F1.
Allan Perret
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Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Chris Brainard

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Re: engine crutch with foam instead of balsa
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 05:21:37 PM »
Correct. F1 was always a pain in the neck to work around. Eliminating it really cleans up the front end. I create a pocket to slide the tank in by gluing 1/8" balsa parallel to the engine crutch directly above the tank...usually making the inside height of the pocket 1/4" taller than the height of the tank. Essentially, this is a structural replacement for F1 without blocking easy access to the tank, lines and fuel filter. The composite crutch doesn't need the notches in F1 to help hold the engine mounts in place. The 1/32" plywood caps lock the whole crutch together.
Chris


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