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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: Howard Rush on February 15, 2012, 06:34:04 PM

Title: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Howard Rush on February 15, 2012, 06:34:04 PM
The pump I got from CST 22 years ago isn't pulling the vacuum it used to, so I got me one from Harbor Freight for $80, part number 98076, http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html .  I could say that the Harbor Freight pump really sucks, but that is ambiguous for a vacuum pump.  It seems to work a treat: it makes a pretty complete vacuum according to my ancient gauges, anyhow, and it moves a lot of air when air is there, so it looks like it can keep up with little leaks.  It is intended for evacuating air conditioning systems, so I don't know how it will fare with continuous operation like all-night vacuum bagging.  I'll report when I find out. 
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Brett Buck on February 15, 2012, 08:49:42 PM
The pump I got from CST 22 years ago isn't pulling the vacuum it used to, so I got me one from Harbor Freight for $80, part number 98076, http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html .  I could say that the Harbor Freight pump really sucks, but that is ambiguous for a vacuum pump.  It seems to work a treat: it makes a pretty complete vacuum according to my ancient gauges, anyhow, and it moves a lot of air when air is there, so it looks like it can keep up with little leaks.  It is intended for evacuating air conditioning systems, so I don't know how it will fare with continuous operation like all-night vacuum bagging.  I'll report when I find out. 

   Every try a refrigerator pump?  Those tend to be bulletproof and will run continuously for years.

    Brett
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Steve Fitton on February 16, 2012, 07:40:42 AM
Keep us posted Howard.  Finding something from Harbor Freight that actually works is newsworthy.
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Steve Hines on February 19, 2012, 06:26:10 PM
Howard how much of a vac do you need?  I run my pumps 24 hours at a time. I just change the oil a lot because of the thing I pull thru mine. I dont know how long the oil is good for useing it like you are.
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Howard Rush on February 20, 2012, 12:30:03 AM
How much vacuum?  Within an inch of Hg of all the way is sufficient.  I just suck mostly air, but there also are whatever fumes come off epoxy.
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Howard Rush on March 02, 2012, 01:43:35 AM
I operated the pump about 20 hours making a cowl.  The cowl stuck to the mold, but the pump worked fine.
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Don Curry AMA 267060 on March 03, 2012, 10:15:36 AM
I know it is too late now but a freind of mine used to make a lot of cowlings for r/c models and put a rubber valve stem from a car wheel in the front of the part being molded and after curing used air pressure to pop the part from the mold.

don
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Howard Rush on March 03, 2012, 02:30:23 PM
Thanks, Don.  Some places came loose, but those that stuck would have taken a heap of pressure to blow off.  I keep coming up with new methods to stick parts to molds.  The most effective so far has been to use Frekote 700 mold release on a doped balsa plug.  It acted as a super bonding agent to affix the dope to the casting epoxy.  In that case I was able to chip and sand the balsa out.  This time I used 35-year-old K&B Superpoxy to bond the casting epoxy to the carbon-epoxy cowl.  I had hefty layers of Frekote and Johnson's wax between the ancient Superpoxy and the cowl.  I have sanded off the Superpoxy and brushed on a couple of coats of PVA for the next round. 
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Steve Fitton on March 13, 2012, 12:48:04 PM
Thanks, Don.  Some places came loose, but those that stuck would have taken a heap of pressure to blow off.  I keep coming up with new methods to stick parts to molds.  The most effective so far has been to use Frekote 700 mold release on a doped balsa plug.  It acted as a super bonding agent to affix the dope to the casting epoxy.  In that case I was able to chip and sand the balsa out.  This time I used 35-year-old K&B Superpoxy to bond the casting epoxy to the carbon-epoxy cowl.  I had hefty layers of Frekote and Johnson's wax between the ancient Superpoxy and the cowl.  I have sanded off the Superpoxy and brushed on a couple of coats of PVA for the next round. 

Speaking of molded parts, is your new plane done yet?
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Howard Rush on March 13, 2012, 11:00:41 PM
No, but I got the cowl out of the mold
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Steve Fitton on March 15, 2012, 01:37:50 PM
No, but I got the cowl out of the mold

...Now if you could just pry the rest of the plane out of that mold(!)
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 15, 2012, 01:53:41 PM
Thanks, Don.  Some places came loose, but those that stuck would have taken a heap of pressure to blow off.  I keep coming up with new methods to stick parts to molds.  The most effective so far has been to use Frekote 700 mold release on a doped balsa plug.  It acted as a super bonding agent to affix the dope to the casting epoxy.  In that case I was able to chip and sand the balsa out.  This time I used 35-year-old K&B Superpoxy to bond the casting epoxy to the carbon-epoxy cowl.  I had hefty layers of Frekote and Johnson's wax between the ancient Superpoxy and the cowl.  I have sanded off the Superpoxy and brushed on a couple of coats of PVA for the next round. 

Is this an epoxy thing?  I don't remember having that much trouble with polyester parts.  Sometimes we did, but it mostly involved people being stupid (or, in one case, malicious).

PVA was just for spraying onto a part that you wanted to cure out thoroughly, because polyester doesn't go 100% in the presence of air.  I never saw it used as a release agent in my dad's shop -- and I did plenty of mold work.  It seems like it'd mess up your nice finish.
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 15, 2012, 05:55:50 PM
Tim, Polyester releases well typically because it shrinks as it cures,, another issue is the first few parts out of a molde tend to be really prone to sticking,, IMHO,, and limited experience on our aircraft parts.. and if you spray the PVA like it was paint, you can lay it down with minimal affect on the finish,,,
On a related note,, I never heard of using PVA for force curing the exposed surface on polyester,, great idea,,
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 15, 2012, 06:52:51 PM
Tim, Polyester releases well typically because it shrinks as it cures,, another issue is the first few parts out of a molde tend to be really prone to sticking,, IMHO,, and limited experience on our aircraft parts.. and if you spray the PVA like it was paint, you can lay it down with minimal affect on the finish,,,
We certainly experienced the "first few parts out of the mold" problem -- one of the ways to @#$% up a nice new mold was to not be attentive about waxing it every time for the first few parts.

After a mold had some mileage, though, you could pull half a dozen parts out of it.  You paid attention to how easily it pulled and the surface finish, and waxed as necessary.

Man, all of this is reminding me of how happy I am that the last time I had to take care of a mold was over half a lifetime away...
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Howard Rush on March 15, 2012, 07:11:22 PM
I got this mold to work by removing the wax, washing off the PVA, sanding off all the Superpoxy, and getting a new can of Frekote. 

Pump has worked for another 30 hours or so. 
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: frank williams on March 24, 2012, 09:50:46 PM
I've used a freezer compressor for 20+ years.  When the freezer of refrig goes its generally has lost its freon due to a pinhole leak in the lines.  Its cheaper to buy a new one.  But the compressor is still good, it'll run for another 50 years.  I have mine connected to an adjustable vaccuum switch and an empty freon bottle to act as a plenum to keep it from cycling too often.
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 24, 2012, 10:34:51 PM
I got this mold to work by removing the wax, washing off the PVA, sanding off all the Superpoxy, and getting a new can of Frekote. 

Pump has worked for another 30 hours or so. 
well good job saving the mold Howard,, so was your freekote old then do you think?
Title: Re: Cheap Vacuum Pump for You Vacuum Baggers
Post by: Howard Rush on March 25, 2012, 09:29:38 PM
I guess so.  It seems to have a finite shelf life.  The problem may have been with the old Superpoxy, too.