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Author Topic: Using less balsa  (Read 3751 times)

Offline Steve Glass

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Using less balsa
« on: August 09, 2023, 03:22:15 PM »
Here's some pics of more experiments to try to use less balsa wood.

The total tailplane area is 150 sq.in. and, as it stands, weighs 78g.

The elevator weighs 25g and is from 6mm Depron, vacuum bagged with 48g cloth and carbon tows top and bottom. The elevator has a 3x6mm balsa LE.

The stab at 53g has a lightweight minimal 6mm balsa frame with flat composite skins, top and bottom.  The skins are made from 2mm wallpaper foam, vac. bagged with 48g cloth on the outer surface and 25g cloth on the inner. Integral with the skins are spar caps of 100g cloth about 20mm wide.  When epoxying the skins to the balsa frame, carbon tows were also added to the spar.

These items are already fuel-proof apart from around the edges and are very stiff.

Steve

Offline Miotch

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Re: Using less balsa
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2023, 06:22:21 AM »
Looks nice.  I googled "wallpaper foam" to see what it is and all I came up with was foam wallpaper, almost all of it with embossed textures ....  Can you explain the materials more ??   I'm all for alternatives to balsa, but I also don't want to learn and perfect new skills such as vacuum bagging and a whole lot of fiberglass work ... 

Offline Steve Glass

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Re: Using less balsa
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2023, 02:19:36 PM »
Looks nice.  I googled "wallpaper foam" to see what it is and all I came up with was foam wallpaper, almost all of it with embossed textures ....  Can you explain the materials more ??   I'm all for alternatives to balsa, but I also don't want to learn and perfect new skills such as vacuum bagging and a whole lot of fiberglass work ...

This is the product I use.  It is an insulating wallpaper liner. Is it not commonly found in the US?
https://www.erfurtmav.com/erfurt-mav-wallpaper-products/insulating-wall-coverings/heatsaver-2mm-wall-underliner#hikashop_show_tabular_description

I've found vac-bagging dead easy to master, also vac-bagging gives a nice finish with minimal weight gain and adds strength.

I use a diy vac bagging system that cost me less than £30.  A compressor from a scrap fridge and a diy electronic vacuum switch. For the vacuum bag, I use heavyweight polythene sheet, the sort used for damp-proofing buildings.

Steve





Offline David_Stack

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Re: Using less balsa
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2023, 05:22:49 PM »
Impressive work Steve;

How much vacuum are you pulling when you apply the skin to the stabilizer frame?  Any sign of the skin being deformed by the vacuum, resulting in concave depressions in the 'hollow' areas of the stabilizer framework?

Are you orienting the carbon tow on the elevator as individual lengths, or do you have some sort of an external frame with locating pins that you use to lay out the carbon tow as a grid, and then place the grid down onto the elevator when doing the layup?

Offline Steve Glass

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Re: Using less balsa
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2023, 12:13:05 AM »
David,
Just to clarify, the individual stab skins, top and bottom, are vac formed. Then the skins and balsa frame are then glued under weights.

The elevator carbon tow pattern is drawn on the outside of the mylars. individual tows are placed by hand, dry, on top of the wetted cloth. Works very well.

I use a Sharpie to draw on the outside of the mylars. Can be wiped off with some meths.

Steve

Offline Steve Glass

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Re: Using less balsa
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2023, 12:24:21 AM »
Forgot to add.

High stress areas and corners that might get knocked can be strengthened with a patch of extra glass during layup.

Steve

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Using less balsa
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2023, 06:26:58 AM »
Steve,
Very nice work. Do you make up the FG as a sheet then apply it to the frame like you would do with a balsa skin? Seems one could wet out the glass flat then after it gets fairly firm apply it to the frame.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Steve Glass

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Re: Using less balsa
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2023, 10:32:52 AM »
Steve,
Very nice work. Do you make up the FG as a sheet then apply it to the frame like you would do with a balsa skin? Seems one could wet out the glass flat then after it gets fairly firm apply it to the frame.

Best,    DennisT

Indeed, the stab was built like regular balsa skin construction.

Excellent idea To add the frame to the almost set skin, a very worthwhile weight saving. I'm sure that if this method could be perfected and also by thinning the epoxy 10 to 15g could be shaved off!

I use West epoxy with the fast hardener. In the past, I've thinned this epoxy with methylated spirit (denatured alcohol in the US?) and it didn't seem to lose strength nor will it attack foam.

Steve

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