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Author Topic: Tip on taping hinge line  (Read 2393 times)

steven yampolsky

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Tip on taping hinge line
« on: August 07, 2007, 07:57:39 AM »
On a thread about flap design considerations, Ted Fancher has mentioned importance of taping hinge line. Ted happens to be the guy who has driven the point home for me last year when I was having hunting problems with VanLoo Chipmunk and called for advice. I was thinking of design limitations of classic ships, warps, tail-heavy, etc. His first question was: "Did you tape the hinge line?" I didn't since I figured that you only worry about it when a model doesn't turn well. Boy, was I wrong! That one act of taping the hinge line has done more to improve performance of my model than all other trim changes put together!

With that in mind, here is my method of taping the hinge lines
  • Put the model on its back
  • Pull on the down line(up line for the elevator) as far as it will go
  • Attach hemostat to the down line up against the wingtip in order to prevent the flaps from moving
  • Put talcum powder in the wedge so that it fills it up. If the gap is too large and the talcum just falls through, just put some masking tape on the other side
  • Wipe excess talcum from the flat surface of the wing and the flap where the tape will go
  • Go over the attachment surfaces with alcohol saturated paper towel.
  • Attach the tape to the wing either as one single tape or as per Ted's recommendation:tape the spans between the hinges. The tape will try to "curl" up a bit and will not stick to the flap.
  • With gentle, palm down, stroking kind of movement roll the tape over the flaps. The tape will fall on the flap in its relaxed state. It is important to make sure that the tape is relaxed and not stretched in any way.
  • Flip the model over and rap your fingers gently on the wing along the hinge line. This will cause talcum to fall on exposed tape and prevent it from ever sticking
  • Flip the model on its back again, remove the hemostat, return flaps to neutral and rap your fingers along the hinge line to remove talcum from the gap
  • Repeat the same steps for the elevators, just pull on the UP line instead.

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2007, 08:15:13 AM »
I have found, when using iron-on plastic, I can run it over the gap and onto the flap, with it in full "whichever" direction as you describe, then using the edge of the iron work it down into the hinge gap.  I do it both sides.  Sounds like a recipe for stiff controls, doesn't it?  but not so!  Controls are free and easy, and the hinge gap is thoroughly and forever sealed.

--Ray
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2007, 10:17:11 AM »
Steve:
I do not normally use tape to seal the hingelines - because it can be hard to handle.  However I REALLY like the method you described and will give it a try.

My first experience with gap seals was a profound as what you described for your Chip.  What is a little perplexing to me is that I had several airplanes that flew well before I learned about seals.  I keep wondering WHY did they fly as well as they did and HOW MUCH BETTER might they have flown with seals?  I am trying to recondition a 33 YO bird that was built before seals and flew very well.  If I can get it back in the air I want to fly it as built without seals, then seal it up.

You mentioned what the seals did for the Chip - have you gone back and added seals to anything else that you thought flew well - and did you get an improvement on a already good flying bird?  I have a hunch that some birds are (for what ever reason) more responsive to seals than others...


Ray:
Ditto the monocote method.  I also like using CA hinges cut into narrow strips. and I allow the hinge gap to be as wide as 1/32" - that way it is EASY to sneak the moneycote down into the gap (use a trim iron), and when you can do it from both sides with the 'cote touching in the middle, as you describe, you get a moneycote hinge too.

Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

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steven yampolsky

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2007, 11:11:59 AM »
What is a little perplexing to me is that I had several airplanes that flew well before I learned about seals.

33 years ago the pattern was not flown with corners as hard as today's pattern demands. Chances are,  you won't be able to fly that model with Paul Walker corners.


You mentioned what the seals did for the Chip - have you gone back and added seals to anything else that you thought flew well - and did you get an improvement on a already good flying bird? 

No, I crashed everything I flew before the Chip. H^^

I have taped all models since the Chipmunk revelation.


Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2007, 12:03:02 PM »
Let's just say I am still not worried about anything outcornering it - then or now...   #^  Like I mentioned it is (was) a very good flying bird, but I am curious what effect seals will have on it.
Denny Adamisin
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Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 01:33:18 PM »

  Fellows are ya'll using a particular type or brand of tape ? If so where do you get it and what is it called ??
                           Thanks, Gil
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steven yampolsky

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2007, 02:44:45 PM »
  Fellows are ya'll using a particular type or brand of tape ? If so where do you get it and what is it called ??
                           Thanks, Gil

Noname packing tape for me.

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2007, 03:12:37 PM »
Art supply houses (Pearl around here) have 1" bookbinding tape....it's a bit thicker, but also seems more flexible that Scotch, and if the surfaces are clean, it lasts a loooooong time. I use a credit card to smush the tape into the gaps. The tape is kinda price (I recall a $6.00 per roll tag?) but if stored in a zip-lock bag, will last.....

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2007, 06:28:28 PM »
I do not use tape very often but when I have the best (thinnest/most flexitble) tape I have seen is REALLY CHEEP tape in the bulk packs on 1.5" wide (or so) rolls.  Gotta put it down and cut it into strips but it works fine.  The "better" packing tapes all seem thicker.

Steve - is that like the "no-name" tape you mentioned?

I also try to tape from both sides if possible with the tape meeting in the middle.  Again the thinnest tape helps, but I thing it helps keep the tape sealed from fuel and tight.

Peabody - I usually use a scrap of thin balsa or a popsicle stick to rub it down - but I like your idea.  Can you send me your credit card so I can try using that to rub down my tape???  LL~  LL~  LL~
Denny Adamisin
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steven yampolsky

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2007, 06:31:51 PM »
Steve - is that like the "no-name" tape you mentioned?

Bingo! Those no-names are skimping on thickness in order to save manufacturing costs which happens to be EXACTLY what we need. Try a 10 cent store, buck-a-book, Dollar-rama or any other super cheap place.

Offline Tom Dugan

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2007, 08:01:05 PM »
I have never taped a wing before.  If the wing were monocoated...would a strip of monocoat work as well?

Thanks TD

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2007, 08:16:49 PM »
Here is my take on this. Don't do it!

If you build it straight and light with tight hinge lines. You don't need it. If you ever get to see Billy Werwage's planes you won't see tape. Nor will you see it on mine.

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steven yampolsky

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2007, 08:51:55 PM »
Here is my take on this. Don't do it!

Try it for a few flights! What have you got to loose? It you don't notice any improvement, no problem! Take out heat gun, warm up the tape and it will come off in a hurry. Wipe off remaining goo with alcohol and that's it.
My bet though is that you WILL notice improved corner. For me, the biggest benefit is CONSISTENCY of a corner. Of course, if a gap is large, you also get improved effectiveness of controlls in ALL maneuvers but that doesn't look like it will be the case with your models.



Offline RC Storick

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2007, 09:03:56 PM »
in 06 Bob Whitley convinced me to tape the HL on my S6B. Crist Rigotti and I did it in the room. Came out the next day to test it. I almost hit the ground. On another note I was told by a renown flier. After he watched my plane fly it needed nose weight. I did that in 07. I will say this, I will never again listen to anyone on how to trim my airplane.

Hey if it works for you do it. But I know its not for me!!!
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steven yampolsky

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2007, 09:07:21 PM »
Hey if it works for you do it. But I know its not for me!!!

Beauty of our event is individualism!

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2007, 09:12:32 PM »
Tom D:
Yes the monocote will work well.  When I use it I usually cover the flaps first, run the 'cote through the hingeline and onto the TE of the wing.  Then cover the wing over that edge.

I retrofitted some ARF's using clear monocote seals.

Taping is pretty easy too...
Denny Adamisin
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Offline Mike Greb

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2007, 03:56:36 PM »
Monokote trim works well to seal the control surfaces on monokoted airplanes.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2007, 09:36:34 PM »
Taping the hingeline has bettered every plane I've built...that needed it.  :)

I built several planes with a captured flap and elevator and so, got a perfect seal when the controls were deflected (or not, I imagine). No need for tape. Weirdly, my current plane flies better without it. That's a first for me.
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2007, 09:43:27 PM »
I'm ready to tape a model's hingeline this weekend, but missing the essential tool: Peabody's credit card. Rich, would you please send it by overnight mail? Thanks!  LL~ Steve
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Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2007, 09:47:21 PM »
I'm with Robert, I usually get my hinglines with a gap that you could not pass a business card between. works for me.
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steven yampolsky

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2007, 05:31:34 PM »
I'm with Robert, I usually get my hinglines with a gap that you could not pass a business card between. works for me.

Peter, have you ever tried taping hinge lines on a model you fly regularly?

Tape can also be used as a trim tool. I had a model that was turning so hard, the flaps could not carry the wing and the model would stall in turns. The model didn't have adjustable horns so instead, I peeled the tape off elevators and left them on flaps. The model stalled a LOT less after that.

Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: Tip on taping hinge line
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2007, 07:51:54 PM »
I didn't see any mention of the problem I had. I worked hard or to the best of my ability (which is not so great) anyway to get my plane trimmed. It always had wing drop in all the sharp corners. Added tip weight, removed tip weight etc. etc. Finally I taped the hinge lines of the flaps and dang if it didn't start turning a nice even corner with the wings remaining level. Upon close inspection you could see that one flap had a slightly larger gap than the other causing it to have less lift than the other, thus the wing drop. Anyway it worked for me. It can change a plane the you really don't like to fly to one that is a pleasure.
Greg Bahrman, AMA 312522
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