Author Topic: Build threads look fun (Read 80487 times)

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #300 on:** December 10, 2013, 09:08:55 PM »

'Exit ramp'

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #301 on:** December 10, 2013, 09:10:36 PM »

Now soft 3/32" floor.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #302 on:** December 10, 2013, 09:11:12 PM »

wwwarbird · « **Reply #303 on:** December 10, 2013, 09:21:27 PM »

Everything looks great Dave but I can't help but wonder, is there any special reason you're still using "old school" spliced pushrods?

RC Storick · « **Reply #304 on:** December 10, 2013, 11:10:46 PM »

Dave you don't know me real well but I want to make a constructive criticism on your push rods system. The way you are doing it is NOT the best way. Three reasons, first is flex and second is the chance for slippage and lastly is weight. That weighs about twice as much as a CF pushrod and is not as strong and is not as reliable. Just a thought for your next plane.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #305 on:** December 11, 2013, 06:18:35 AM »

Hi guys. Maybe it's just an old dog thing. I used a couple CF rods way back. They were OK but I had to use quick links on them to get fine adjustments. When people started losing airplanes over quick links I stopped using them. I know they weigh a little less but I'm not too fanatical about it. I like the ability to nail the level adjustment more. I suppose I could fiddle with carbon rod and get the length perfect but seems more time consuming than i think worth it . As far as flex, they will if not supported but there I'm using plywood fair leads which control that. The first use i remember seeing of the carbon rod was the Impact and Blue Max take apart airplanes where the wing came out and the pushrod had to swing down to remove. It required no pushrod support to allow the movement so carbon was the answer. I dont think it was about weight then. That was just a bonus. By the time I would be happy with it, it may not weigh less anyway. Maybe it's because I've done this reliably for so long I can seal it up in the fuselage and forget about it. It won't let me down. Maybe it's the Ford/Chevy thing- I drive Pontiac. Robert your new ship is looking really great! Can't wait to see it this summer.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #306 on:** December 11, 2013, 10:29:35 AM »

I too still do the two piece push rod thing. But do you really save that much weight with carbon rods? By the time you add the ball links, which I am thoroughly sold on and wrap the carbon at the end so it doesn't split, yes I've had the ends split, is it lighter? Guess I will have to grab the old scale and check for myself. On my latest project I weighed the new leading edge and compared to the original leading edge of the plane. A full 2 ounces of difference. Pictures forth coming.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #307 on:** December 11, 2013, 12:04:48 PM »

John I'm not sure. I'd graft in 3/32 wire to tie on to. I'm going to risk saying that this was a follow the leader thing with many doing this without really understanding why or what brought it on in the first place. There are a few other things like that in this here sport!

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #308 on:** December 11, 2013, 05:42:33 PM »

Quote from: Dave_Trible on December 11, 2013, 12:04:48 PM

John I'm not sure. I'd graft in 3/32 wire to tie on to. I'm going to risk saying that this was a follow the leader thing with many doing this without really understanding why or what brought it on in the first place. There are a few other things like that in this here sport!

Roger that brother Dave! Sometimes change is for the better, sometimes change is just....change. Doing it just cuz the other guy is doing it ain't a good enough reason!

BTW have been admiring your build all along the way - keep posting the lessons!

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #309 on:** December 11, 2013, 06:00:41 PM »

Hey Denny!!! Yaw mon!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #310 on:** December 11, 2013, 09:54:19 PM »

To each his own Dave, I will agree that quick links aren't the greatest thing.

I'm also an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" kinda guy, but FWIW...

I've never had a quick link fail on me, but a half dozen or so models ago I started using ball links exclusively and have found them to be a LOT better. I use Du-Bro 4-40's and also add a jam nut at the end of the link. I use JB Weld to install the threaded fittings into the carbon tube, no wrapping. Properly set up you'll have perfectly smooth operation, and no slop anywhere. I'd say it's splitting hairs on the overall weight difference, and it's not difficult at all to nail the proper length. I usually build mine starting out with the ball links threaded midway or slightly more onto the fittings, and then cut the carbon pushrod to the necessary length. Done right, this leaves enough adjustment for absolute fine tuning. With the control arms, all you have to do with them is tap the holes for the ball link connection. It's totally the way to go Dave, try it, you'll like it.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #311 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:10:36 AM »

Mornin' Wayne. I know the ball links have caught on. I'm sure they are fine and you can get adjustment with them. They are probably strong enough. I doubt I'll be using them until I find a reason they improve my game. ( I sensed you rolling your eyes). OK here's my beef with them. The very thing many tout as a virtue with them, no slop or play in the controls is exactly my problem with them. I don't like the feel of tight controls and they don't allow for any slight misalignment or anomaly in a flying surface. These then REQUIRE the ability to fine tinker the adjustments to set right where my antiquated method is more tolerant and I'm not fiddling with it. This I think is more a personal preference and I call it just that. There sure was a big push toward these by a few which is fine but I would struggle with any idea that they are required to be competitive as some might assert.
Been slow about getting those drawings to you. I need to doctor them some but haven't had the bench clear to do it. I'll get it together eventually Wayne.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #312 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:55:09 AM »

Like Dave, I prefer slop in the control system as well. LOADS OF IT!!!!!!!!

That being said I use a combination of ball links and clevises throughout the system. I use the ball link at the BC where the short rod attaches to the BC. That way there is no bind with an L bend. And UHP clevises all the way back from there on Carbon rods both front and back. At the elevator horn I hog out the hole some where the clevis goes through and that gives me my elevator slop. I usually start with a 1/16" amount and it goes up from there as the system wears in. For some reason that slop loose feel in the system gives me more ability to finesse it, read that fudge it when I blow it, around the bottoms and nail my angles.

The rods are the small central hobbies ones with the titanium 4/40 fittings. Not the big fat arrow shafts. With the carbon rods you have no need for guides and you can take out most of the formers in your model before you close it up. Since you have a pipe floor and the top of the fuse sides are filled with cross grain balsa (very nice I might add!) you could go back and take out most of the former used in the initial layup leaving just a small window frame look at each former. You have a box with the top and bottom closed and that box fuse is really strong. With no plywood guides and the extra former material out of there that is where the weight savings comes in and you have not sacrificed any strength in the controls.

At the same time what you are using works and you like it so no need to change it. I just wanted to say there is a way to get slop with ball links. And no I would never use a quick link...

Doug Moon · « **Reply #313 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:58:03 AM »

By the way. I have checked this thread every day since day one. I think your plane looks great and I cant wait to see the rest of it and the finish. Thank you for taking the time to post pics and how you go about the builds. There is always so much I learn from these build threads!

Thanks again.

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #314 on:** December 12, 2013, 08:21:56 AM »

I like this thread a lot. And it's nice tosee different approaches to various things...
About the slop, many years ago the GT Bicycles freestyle team came for a series of shows here.
I was hired to be the TM, as I already knew some of them.
One of the riders, Brian Blyther, one of heroes, came on this trip, and while we were having a little fun, I picked his bike to play around...
There was nothing "tight", everything was loose.. I couldn't really ride his bike.
Later, I asked another guy from the team if that was really the way Brian rode his bike, and Dave answered with no words, just a crazy face...

I must have my controls slop free, but that's me...
Anyway, I think the carbon pushrod could be a cool improvement.

Marcus

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #315 on:** December 12, 2013, 10:32:11 AM »

Doug and Marcus. Thank you very much. Sometimes I've wondered if anybody is following along. And Doug I still lay claim to 'King of Slop'. I remember reading in years past how others had to go back in and loosen controls up. I recall Bill Werwage telling how after he rebuilt the controls in one it didn't fly right and had to go back in and slop them up some to cure hunting. That can drive a sane man over the edge, especially if its fine upright but hunts inverted etc. I am glad we can all do stuff our own way because like Marcus said, it can feel very different to the individual. After 50 years this dog barks like he learned it as a pup.

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #316 on:** December 12, 2013, 10:42:58 AM »

I'm watching too - always learning. These threads always draw interesting, informative comments too.

SK

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #317 on:** December 12, 2013, 06:53:22 PM »

Glad you are on board Serge. Tonight I'm putting the rest of the 1/16 sheet fuse webbing top and bottom. Also putting in the tail gear wire. The first shot is a 1/16 plywood platform and 1/16 music wire gear.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #318 on:** December 12, 2013, 06:56:43 PM »

I tack glue the wire in place to make wrapping easy. Also you can see I have a .027 lead out cable looping through. This is my stooge launching cable. I also hang the airplane from this cable at home. I think it's the best way to keep the airplane straight in storage.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #319 on:** December 12, 2013, 06:57:33 PM »

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #320 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:00:22 PM »

I won't be winning any sewing bee but I sew soft brass wire to lash the gear and cable to the plywood.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #321 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:05:36 PM »

Here I glue on some 1/8sq. to gain some glue contact surface.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #322 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:07:37 PM »

Now epoxy is applied over all wraps then inserted in the fuselage. The blue tape keeps epoxy off where I don't need it.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #323 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:08:36 PM »

Tape pulled, job done. Next airplane.

Curare · « **Reply #324 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:28:28 PM »

I too am watching! As a matter of fact I stole your wing tip idea for my last plane, amazingly light, and easy to do:)

It's a bit of a trick to get an adjustable leadout in them, but nothing too hard:)

Keep going! I'm learning!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #325 on:** December 12, 2013, 11:08:25 PM »

Quote from: Dave_Trible on December 12, 2013, 07:10:36 AM

This I think is more a personal preference and I call it just that.

No problem Dave just tossing it out there, personal preference is all that really matters.

No sweat on the drawings either Dave, I definitely want to get ahold of them, but whenever you have the extra time.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #326 on:** December 13, 2013, 08:57:18 AM »

Hey Dave, the old DOC is here watching your progress. I am glad that Mother and Grandma taught us boys how to sew tears on shirts and pants. Also learned how to do buttons. When I seen your post about the daughter and grandson, I was wishing I had built the shop I wanted. There would have been enough room in one corner for ya.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #327 on:** December 13, 2013, 10:22:22 AM »

Oh John thank you. That got accelerated. They arrived last night. Going to try to make do here long enough to get these planes finished up then shut 'er down and make living quarters out of it. Hoping I can finish these in maybe four weeks or less. I can rub them out on the bed. Maybe this youngest grandson will take to the hobby. Got to teach him to walk and talk first! Probably put him in the jumper seat next to grandpa today and watch me cut balsa. Junior Nats Champ in the making. These ships might be pretty light. Don't know how much finish I'll have time to do. Bet the dope smell ...........

john e. holliday · « **Reply #328 on:** December 14, 2013, 08:51:48 AM »

This will make two champs in the works. Just need to get the one out more often. I have planes that need a pilot.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #329 on:** December 14, 2013, 09:25:37 AM »

Yeah Dylan likes to fly but gets bored in the shop. Have to see about baby Bryce. Maybe their girl cousin will show them up. One thing for sure. Grandpa has enough stuff to keep them going as long as they have interest. I bought about 40 engines this year, .049s , .15s, .19s, .29s, and .35s , to supply them. Now just have to see which of them will jump in.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #330 on:** December 14, 2013, 08:13:11 PM »

What the? Here's where I am starting the modifications I talked about on the regular sized plane. I remember seeing some old 1930s-40s fictitious serial aviation character drawings or cartoons for Capt. Eddie and his super fighter. Think that. You are in 1935. What would a futuristic fighter look like given what you knew then.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #331 on:** December 14, 2013, 08:13:47 PM »

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #332 on:** December 14, 2013, 08:17:46 PM »

john e. holliday · « **Reply #333 on:** December 15, 2013, 07:55:53 AM »

That sure is different.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #334 on:** December 15, 2013, 10:06:12 AM »

Cap'n Eddie checking out his new ride.

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #335 on:** December 15, 2013, 10:39:00 AM »

By Tom of Finland?

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #336 on:** December 15, 2013, 10:53:18 AM »

Lauri, by Slimline of Arizona. (Made in China)

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #337 on:** December 15, 2013, 10:58:06 AM »

The Duke, Gramps and Dick awaiting their machines.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #338 on:** December 15, 2013, 11:25:24 AM »

I need some 3/4" 4-6 lb. blocks for top blocks but we can no longer buy 4-6 lb. thicker than 3/8". If you can pick and choose you could find light block. Since most of us have to mail order light wood the option is to laminate thinner planks to get thick blocks.
The picture shows mixed 15 minute epoxy poured on the wood. Then I use an old plastic gift card to spread it around then scrape it off to near dry. Then the wood is mated and weighted flat. I have used cement for this but you need to leave it wet. It leaves a float between layers and when you carve the block even days later you find wet cement because it didn't get air to dry. You then have to stop to let that glue dry then carve a little more. Epoxy will cure but you have to get that extra weight scraped off.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #339 on:** December 15, 2013, 11:26:00 AM »

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #340 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:47:22 PM »

A run down on what we got done today. Working mostly on the Capt. Eddie airplane I needed to start getting the front together to set the top block to do the rear deck sheeting to.......... Something I know unusual or peculiar to my airplanes is a 1/4" balsa fill just over the motor mounts. This goes back to Music. Simply, I like to keep the engine centerline within 3/4" of the wing centerline for more even inside/outside turns and maybe a little closer on vertical CG. With a thicker wing and the mounts at the top of the fuselage sides there isn't much meat in sides and doublers passing over the top of the wing-hardly any. So the sides are raised 1/4" at the first bulkhead to get more strength against vibration and torsion. I then use the 1/4" balsa fill block forward which also makes shaping the nose easier.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #341 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:48:05 PM »

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #342 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:49:14 PM »

Now I am building in blocks around the nose to mount the plywood nose ring.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #343 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:49:57 PM »

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #344 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:51:35 PM »

Bolting in the RO Jett .61 and twisting in a little engine offset.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #345 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:52:12 PM »

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #346 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:57:16 PM »

With the engine in I can now use it to perfectly position the 1/8" plywood nose ring. I use 1/8 because the ring is integral to holding the cowling on as you will see. I have an old 2" spinner backplate that has become a tool for this operation. I use a lot of double sided tape as I build and here pieces are placed on the backplate and then card stock spacer shims are stuck on. Then the 1/8 ply ring is stuck to that.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #347 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:57:54 PM »

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #348 on:** December 15, 2013, 08:59:41 PM »

I test fit and build wood out or sand it back to get a light contact to the ring.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #349 on:** December 15, 2013, 09:03:28 PM »

To help with this I have sandpaper stuck to the back of a larger back plate which I can use to sand it in. Jim Lee makes a great tool for this.