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Author Topic: Build fuselage around the wing  (Read 3299 times)

Online Motorman

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Build fuselage around the wing
« on: November 09, 2024, 09:06:30 PM »
Building a full fuselage old time stunt with upright engine. I was told to build the wing with the push rod hanging out then build the fuselage around it. How do you do that, what do you do first? The push rod ends up coming out the side to connect to the elevator. Never did it this way before.


MM :)

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Offline kevin king

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2024, 02:52:13 AM »
Build it the way you feel most comfortable with.
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Offline pmackenzie

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2024, 06:17:34 AM »
You could cut a slit in the fuselage side from the pushrod exit to the rear.
That way you could slide the fuselage side on, open the gap to get the pushrod through, and then glue the slit together.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2024, 08:37:07 AM »
Quote from: Motorman on November 09, 2024, 09:06:30 PM
How do you do that....
I wonder why you would do that.  Leave the top and bottom blocks/sheeting off until the wing and stab are glued in then slide the pushrod wire through the slot in the back.  I don't think there is any penalty for using modern control linkages in Old Time so I would use a CF rod and ball links.  Thread the ball link and count the turns you want for centering then put the ball link on the bellcrank and take the pushrod off.  Once the wing is in hold the plane vertical nose up and pull the up line.  The ball link will be dangling right next to the cutout.  Slide the pushrod through the fuselage holes and gently thread it into the ball link.  QED

I do this on all of my planes.

Ken

The "and stab" was a brain fart.  Ignore it.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2025, 08:49:20 AM by Ken Culbertson »
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Online Motorman

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2024, 10:35:25 AM »
This is an Upstart, the fuselage construction is very different and integrated with the wing. Motor mounts go back through the wing and hold bellcrank mount. Can't slide the wing in or drop it in from top or bottom. Half of it is all sticks that go from square to triangle to flat rudder. A real head scratcher on what to do 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

MM :) 
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2024, 10:53:40 AM »
Quote from: Motorman on December 21, 2024, 10:35:25 AM
This is an Upstart, the fuselage construction is very different and integrated with the wing. Motor mounts go back through the wing and hold bellcrank mount. Can't slide the wing in or drop it in from top or bottom. Half of it is all sticks that go from square to triangle to flat rudder. A real head scratcher on what to do 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

MM :)

  Where did you get the plans? They should have had the construction article also. It was in May, 1948 Air Trails. A Claude McCullough design and he did pretty good articles. When in doubt, read the instructions!

   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Online afml

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2024, 12:52:46 PM »
If memory serves....  Which is usually WRONG.... LL~
Check with Jim Lee. I believe he built one.
I have pictures of it at a contest way back when.

Good luck & Merry Christmas!
"Tight Lines!" H^^
Wes
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Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2024, 08:59:54 PM »
Send me your email address and I will send you a link to my Upstart construction photos
« Last Edit: December 22, 2024, 10:30:49 PM by Jim Hoffman »
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2025, 08:46:03 PM »
Quote from: Ken Culbertson on December 21, 2024, 08:37:07 AM
I wonder why you would do that.  Leave the top and bottom blocks/sheeting off until the wing and stab are glued in


      !!!  I would not recommend that - there's no way to align the stab. I always finish the fuselage construction completely, except for the block right over it, because the fuselage is not in its final shape until you have completely finished. Align it and tack glue it in, let it sit for a day or two, make sure it stayed where you expected. correct if necessary, repeat until it stays, glue in solid, repeat. Then tack the block over the top of the stab, let that sit, adjust to restore alignment, then when it is aligned and stays, glue it in finally.

    Brett
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Online 944_Jim

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2025, 10:16:45 PM »
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2025, 08:22:38 AM »
Quote from: Brett Buck on January 11, 2025, 08:46:03 PM
      !!!  I would not recommend that - there's no way to align the stab. I always finish the fuselage construction completely, except for the block right over it, because the fuselage is not in its final shape until you have completely finished. Align it and tack glue it in, let it sit for a day or two, make sure it stayed where you expected. correct if necessary, repeat until it stays, glue in solid, repeat. Then tack the block over the top of the stab, let that sit, adjust to restore alignment, then when it is aligned and stays, glue it in finally.

    Brett
Brett:  My apologies, you are absolutely correct about the stab.  I should have proof read that better and left out the "and stab" which really had nothing to do with the question.  What we were suggesting were ways to build the fuselage when the bellcrank to elevator pushrod exits the fuselage side for an exterior attachment to the elevator.  Using the method I suggested you could install the pushrod(s) after joining the wing to the fuselage without using the "Nobler" type cutting of the sides under the wing and slide it in like you would a profile.

Ken
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Build fuselage around the wing
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2025, 09:18:06 AM »
Quote from: Motorman on December 21, 2024, 10:35:25 AM
This is an Upstart, the fuselage construction is very different and integrated with the wing. Motor mounts go back through the wing and hold bellcrank mount. Can't slide the wing in or drop it in from top or bottom. Half of it is all sticks that go from square to triangle to flat rudder. A real head scratcher on what to do 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

MM :) 
I just read the article and you are right.  This plane was not designed, it was composed and plans made for the end result.  It looks like it is an early version of a Detroiter type wing with a log of a spar vs an "I" beam. It is built around the fuselage yet the article says the fuselage is built first.  Interesting design.  Airfoil is high lift but thin, aft moment quite modern.  I question the lack of center section sheeting which totally answers the question we have all been trying to address.  The bellcrank is open with the wing attached which means you can slide the pushrod in from the either the front or back before gluing on the huge carved blocks which will require a second mortgage to buy.

Good luck, I really like the lines of the plane and suspect it flew quite well for it's day  - Ken

Side note - The article is very interesting.  Reading the "state of the Art" in 1948.  If PA is still arouud in 70 years I wonder if they will read our writings and marvel at how wrong we were!  LL~
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