Author Topic: Brodak Flight Streak (Read 21931 times)

Avaiojet · « **Reply #100 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:09:32 PM »

Mark,

Thanks for the reply, it's an eye opener!

I never used the tape because I've seen, eventually it would get gummy and have to be removed and replaced. In all honesty, I never cared about it back then.

Now, I would like to know a bit more about this and will absolutely take your advice and search. I must say, I had no idea CL modelers used tape to seal the hingeline. Placed on the bottom I'm guessing? Color?

Now you have me thinking about the application. It must be "tucked" into the hinge line? I hope I'll see photos when I do my search.

Thanks again for that.

Charles

Bill Little · « **Reply #101 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:13:34 PM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 25, 2012, 04:42:49 PM

Just got back from the field. My laps clocked in at 3.78-3.82 seconds on 52 foot lines. My overall run time is a whopping 7.5 minutes lol. That old O.S. .25 is a fuel sipper. I had all kinds of fun and my engine and needle setting are getting better each flight. I'm starting to be able to get a wet to dry break. Dry not being the correct word but you get the meaning.
Mark, I apologize for being an inconvieniance to you. I have done searches for hinging methods and was unsure of the reasoning behind sealed hinges. Perhaps, in the future, I will refrain from questions that have been already asked, so as not to bother the more seasoned posters.
Bill and Charles, I haven't tried the nylon yet maybe on a future build. Right now I am enjoying beating my head against the wall with these dubros LOL. I have always finished after hinging when using cloth and will probably do the sme here. I am betting that the nylon ones would be easier to cover-up. Thanks again guys for the input and advice.

HI Nathan,

I would say that you should probably move to 58' eye to eye lines. The plane should easily handle those length lines. Once you get closer to 60' lines you should probably be flying in the upper 4 sec. range. 4.8-4.9 would hep in learning to stunt, etc..

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #102 on:** July 25, 2012, 06:11:15 PM »

That was my estimation as well Bill. I am space limited were I fly and we have already made some incidental contact on the flightbox with 52' lines so I will probably be staying put until we find a larger area to fly in. I am still getting nervous my first couple of flights and have learned not to attempt to complex of a manuever while I'm a little stiff. After a bit I free up. Most of my flying has been on a junior that was pretty durn fast so I am sorta use to it but wtchin my dad's RM with a fox makes me jealous of the low speed level flight. Once agin rambling lol. We narrowly avoided some storms today; hopefully, it will be clear tomorrow nd I'll get more than a couple flights in. Right now I am focused on my three consecutive loops and wing-overs. Net she is going on her back.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #103 on:** July 25, 2012, 08:06:30 PM »

Nathan,

Hey! I've been busy.

Flying in tight areas? Ever have to run with a model to get the lines tight? You'll have to run twice.

Well, the HS was closed, missed it by five minutes, so the tail feathers will have to wait a day.

I hopping to fly with 60'. Hope the .25 will keep the model out there.

The wife and I looked over Alpharetta, sp? Other places also. Nice there.

Hey! Three pages. Congratulations and kudos!

Charles

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #104 on:** July 25, 2012, 09:55:16 PM »

Yeah it kinda looks like you have been a little busy. It also looks like my key board is dying my A's and X's are not working properly. I'm jealous that you have a local HS I gotta load a covered wagon and face starvation and the elements to traverse the nation to get to mine LOL. I don't think you'll have a problem on 60' lines if you can keep your weight down. My flying area is crooked and I dare not try 60 footers it would work but I wander too much when I am flying. Alpharetta, sp? Whats that about? Some place in Spain, I here the rain there mostly falls on the plains.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #105 on:** July 25, 2012, 11:01:59 PM »

nathan,

WHY AREN'T YOU IN BED?

Alpheratta Georgia, just notrh west of Atlanta. You must know of it? You pulling my leg?

You have to try to find a larger field. Don't they play baseball in your town?

Yes, you did say you drove for a few hours to get to your HS. Mine is two miles away. The best one is 16 miles away.

I'll get my wood tomorrow. Possibly by the weekend I'll silk this puppy. Silking it just for the experience.

Can't wait to fly the thing.

Charles

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #106 on:** July 26, 2012, 12:00:16 AM »

Yeah I figured it out after a bit. I'm a little slow these days. I'm turning into a night owl for the net three weeks that I am off. I'm down in Valdosta GA and am a transplant so I am not real knowledgable bout the area. We have a soccer and baseball diamond close to us at a park but there is someone normally there so we use a grass parking lot area off to the side. We try nd stay out of the way so that the law leaves us alone. I can't wait to hear the report of you flying yours either.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #107 on:** July 26, 2012, 12:46:31 AM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 25, 2012, 04:42:49 PM

Mark, I apologize for being an inconvieniance to you. I have done searches for hinging methods and was unsure of the reasoning behind sealed hinges. Perhaps, in the future, I will refrain from questions that have been already asked, so as not to bother the more seasoned posters.

Nathan,
not sure what gave you the impression that you are an inconvinience to me? My reply was pointed towards Charles as he was asking about taping hinge lines,, and Just because I did not feel like retyping something at that moment had less to do with being put out, and more to do with not having time,, ( I was at work,, dont tell the boss ok)
The search tool however is a very good tool,, there is lots of info there, but if you dont know that something is there, you dont know to search,, that is why on some questions I suggest searching, and others I do not,,
some topics have quite a history, and much of it written by much more qualified persons than me,, so I prefer to point people to the source,, rather than risk paraphrasing something and getting it wrong on some point,,
I regret that I gave you the impression that I was put out by your question,, not at all the case,,

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #108 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:02:01 AM »

Mark, It's cool I just misunderstood because it was originally my question concerning the sealed hinges. When searching out techniques for using dubro hinges I found alot of references too sealing hinge joints. I still am unsure of what effect this has on the flying charecteristics. I have made extensive use of the search function but to be honest it is a grueling process because often the simpleist problems are often glazed over and for me these are the areas that I am looking for due to my limited knowledge. Reading the threads by the advanced builders and flyers is much like reading Einstein to learn arithmetic LOL.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #109 on:** July 26, 2012, 07:12:06 AM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 26, 2012, 01:02:01 AM

Mark, It's cool I just misunderstood because it was originally my question concerning the sealed hinges. When searching out techniques for using dubro hinges I found alot of references too sealing hinge joints. I still am unsure of what effect this has on the flying charecteristics. I have made extensive use of the search function but to be honest it is a grueling process because often the simpleist problems are often glazed over and for me these are the areas that I am looking for due to my limited knowledge. Reading the threads by the advanced builders and flyers is much like reading Einstein to learn arithmetic LOL.

Nathan,

Mark is cool and a stand up guy, although I guess he sometimes sits. I believe Mark and I both have different models called "Avenger." Mine was finished in representation of the British Avenger television series. Flag graphics, etc. I have no Idea why Mark calls his model that? You would have to ask Mark. Maybe it was the kit? He knows what he's talking about when he offers information, he's also an excellent builder and finisher. He was correct on this spar thing issue of mine in another post.

Searching. You can waste a great deal of time searching and come up with nothing. I searched to find out what chemical Al Rabe used when he did his glassing over sheeted balsa. Never did I find the brand. I figured I glassed enough sheeted balsa in my time and decided to stay with my winning game. I never even asked the Forum. They would have told me to do a search.

Yeah Baby!

Charles

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #110 on:** July 26, 2012, 08:25:50 AM »

Hey Charles,, you did ask,, and we told you ,, remember all the conversations about Polyester resin versus epoxy?

anyway,, the secret to the search is to try different search words,, but at least it gives you a basis to begin understanding,

as to the sealed hinge lines,, basically it makes the control surface more "efficient" and it eliminates any variation as the hinge line rotates through its range of motion,

There is an opportunity for the gap to open or close at different points making the airflow vary over the surface. taping it eliminates any variation as it goes through its motion, making the response more linear and consistent......

Avaiojet · « **Reply #111 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:25:26 AM »

Mark,

Thanks for that. Kudos on the spar.

The tape line?

I'm guessng with the advent of removable control surfaces, i.e., that long wire system, the actual gap the tape is sealing is the thiskness of the exposed hinge. That could be almost an .09". Correct?

What's with these other, really beautifully finished models, that appear to have a slight notch at each hinge?

I can see the clear taping of that also, but what method is used to remove those control surfaces? Doesn't seem like these modelers are using that long wire system. Keep in mind I'm viewing from photos.

Thanks again,

Charles

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #112 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:31:00 AM »

Loving the streak Charles. She looks rel good. I like the red on the tail.
Mark, Thanks I can see how the gap changing throughout a maneuver as input changes would cause an inconsistency problem. I was looking at the problem too two dimensionally.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #113 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:48:35 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on July 26, 2012, 09:25:26 AM

Mark,

Thanks for that. Kudos on the spar.

The tape line?

I'm guessng with the advent of removable control surfaces, i.e., that long wire system, the actual gap the tape is sealing is the thiskness of the exposed hinge. That could be almost an .09". Correct?

What's with these other, really beautifully finished models, that appear to have a slight notch at each hinge?

I can see the clear taping of that also, but what method is used to remove those control surfaces? Doesn't seem like these modelers are using that long wire system. Keep in mind I'm viewing from photos.

Thanks again,

Charles

I do not use removable surfaces ( yet) ,,

here are some threads,,
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=1922.0
look at post #7 specifically, it shows the hinge pocket tool

and another thread with some pictures,,

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=2040.0

post 8 has a close up of the hinge pocket,,

basicallly it allows you to get the surfaces closer together, and accomodate the barrel of the hinge,,

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #114 on:** July 26, 2012, 10:03:10 AM »

These are two of the many threads I found related to this subject. There are many for sure. I think I will stick to the cloth hinges after this build, I may change over to the nylon taffeta that was mentioned earlier. These dubro's are a serious pain with the dubro tool or with my regular e-xacto. Maybe I'll try the kleets sometime.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #115 on:** July 26, 2012, 10:16:29 AM »

Once you have a system down for doing them its actually very easy,,

One trick I have seen done is to build up your control surface in three layers,, a core of 1/32 is used,, you cut your hinge slots in that ( actually they are pockets for the hinge leaf) then you laminate 1/8 balsa over each side of the 1/32,, this gives you a perfect hinge slot with no muss,, just dont use an excess of glue when laminating,,

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #116 on:** July 26, 2012, 10:23:50 AM »

Yeah I seen that when I was researching. That does look very simple and accurate. I had already commited to using one solid piece so I didn't give it too much thought. I am going to be painting this model so I am going to drill a few small holes on each hinge and inject some CA through them then strike it off clean, sand, and paint. My problem cutting the holes has been the compacted balsa from using the dubro forked blade. The compacted area takes a relative mount of force to dig out and each time something gives I am putting the piece of work in danger. I'm just crying lol it isn't too bad it's just time consuming nd there is no real gaurentee that I'm getting them in there straight laterally.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #117 on:** July 26, 2012, 03:49:44 PM »

YEA BABY!

Hey! Hey! Nathan,

Picked up my sheet of 3/16 balsa today and I'll be working on my tail feathers. Is your rudder also 3/16" balsa?

I use 30 minute epoxy resin on my Klett/Dubro hinges. I work it in the hinge opening then put the hinge in place, all of them pinned. I scuff the hinge up with sandpaper first, not sure that helps. From underneath I set up a drill with a stop so not to go all the way through, just to get through the hinge. Toothpicks work. Cut them off after. Only one side to sand, the bottom.

Three pages! Congratulations!

Charles

Bill Little · « **Reply #118 on:** July 26, 2012, 04:50:34 PM »

I, along with many others, finish all the parts, up to and including clear, before attaching the control surfaces. The sanded in "pockets" for the barrel will have just enough extra room for all the hinges to line up correctly. And we do not use single long "pin" to attach the surfaces. One all the parts are finished, epoxy the hinges into the control surface all at one time. By pressing the LE of the surface onto a flat surface you will get all the hinges lined up straight. Once they have cured, apply epoxy to the hinge slots on the wing or stab and push the hinges in. Using oil, white grease, or melted Vaseline in the hinge barrel you will not get epoxy into the hinge. So far I have not attempted removable control surfaces. And pinning the hinges in place is not necessary since we have good epoxy.

BTW, Charles, Mark's Avenger is so named because the original model (in the '60s, it is Classic legal) was named Avenger when Don Shultz designed it.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Avaiojet · « **Reply #119 on:** July 27, 2012, 07:53:48 AM »

Quote

BTW, Charles, Mark's Avenger is so named because the original model (in the '60s, it is Classic legal) was named Avenger when Don Shultz designed it.

Bill,

I thought so, but I haven't given out any false information yet and I certainly don't want to start now.

Nice name for a kit, but the TV show wasn't in play at that time.

Charles

Trostle · « **Reply #120 on:** July 27, 2012, 08:21:34 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on July 27, 2012, 07:53:48 AM

(Clip)

Nice name for a kit, but the TV show wasn't in play at that time.

Charles

So What? For your information, Don Shultz is at the upper limit in the spectrum of creativity. Do not even suggest that he is not.

Keith

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #121 on:** July 27, 2012, 08:26:38 AM »

I can attest to that,, he was pretty active doing cartoons for at least one of the model magazines for many years
His Avenger was quite a departure aestetically and structurally and in my humblest opinion, its one of the more unique designs from the era,,

( caveat,, I was not active in the 60s,, and in the 70s all I did was read magazines and wish,,so I only know what I have learned since,, and seen during the time by magazine exposure,, )

Avaiojet · « **Reply #122 on:** July 27, 2012, 08:54:30 AM »

Nathan,

Let's try to get back on topic! Shoot for four pages!

Hey! How's that second Flite Streak coming? Should be framed by now? You said you were going to paint the second? Colors? Any big changes to it?

I cut mt 3/16" tail feathers, made the elevator a bit wider, and cut my hinge pockets. I'll try to get them done over the weekend. Gotta put on a couple of coats of Dr. Good to fill and add strength to the wood, fuel proofs it also.

If you want the stab and elevator, I'll mail them to you.

Charles

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #123 on:** July 27, 2012, 09:21:53 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on July 27, 2012, 08:54:30 AM

Nathan,

Let's try to get back on topic! Shoot for four pages!

Charles

Charles,, you may have not caught it, ,but as a hint,, this constant concern of yours for page count,, and post count is kind of annoying to a lot of people,, it may help you get along here if you quit putting a premium on this,, and instead focus on quality information, instead of quantity information,, just trying to help you get along,,

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #124 on:** July 27, 2012, 10:52:47 AM »

Mark, I appreciate your concern about our member's reputations; however, in the future I would suggest contacting them through PM or contacting a moderator if this is insuffecient. I am concerned about this thread becoming a mudslinging event; consequently, being deleted. Please respect my concerns.
My most humble thanks,
Nathan

Avaiojet · « **Reply #125 on:** July 27, 2012, 02:14:02 PM »

Nathan,

I asked a question of you that I imagine you missed?

You did say your stab and elevator were made of 3/16" stock. My "original" Flite Streak kit, and I know I should have sold it on ebay, had these parts made from 1/8" stock. I remade them with 3/16" stock.

I asked about the rudder parts. Are yours made of 1/8" stock or 3/16" stock?

I do have some 3/16" stock left over, but I really don't want to remake the rudder.

Also, take your best photos of your finished Flite Streak. There should be a Flite Streak photo Thread. Probably plenty of guys with them!

Thanks,

Charles

Trostle · « **Reply #126 on:** July 27, 2012, 02:55:31 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on July 27, 2012, 02:14:02 PM

(Clip)

I do have some 3/16" stock left over, but I really don't want to remake the rudder.

(Clip)
Thanks,
Charles

I apologize in avance to others on this forum, but felt it was my civic duty to contribute to the page count here.

Also, for any that are interested, I have some scrap 3/16 stock if anybody needs some, maybe even enough to make a rudder.

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #127 on:** July 27, 2012, 03:27:52 PM »

Charles sorry about that, My rudder is made from 1/8" It seems to hold up well so far.
I apologize to anyone on the forum who believes I am purely posting on this thread in order to make a "thread count" I am purely enjoying building and flying my plane and thought a thread to ask questions in and to express my enjoyments and issues with this plane was within the "spirit" of a forum. I suppose I am wrong and have started to see that unexperienced flyers should be seen and not heard. I do appreciate the feedback and help that I recieved from everyone.

Bill Little · « **Reply #128 on:** July 27, 2012, 04:03:50 PM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 27, 2012, 03:27:52 PM

Charles sorry about that, My rudder is made from 1/8" It seems to hold up well so far.
I apologize to anyone on the forum who believes I am purely posting on this thread in order to make a "thread count" I am purely enjoying building and flying my plane and thought a thread to ask questions in and to express my enjoyments and issues with this plane was within the "spirit" of a forum. I suppose I am wrong and have started to see that unexperienced flyers should be seen and not heard. I do appreciate the feedback and help that I recieved from everyone.

You are fine, Nathan. Your posts have been exactly what everyone is here for. Keep it up and we will try to make helpful comments for your model. It's not your fault.

Bill

john e. holliday · « **Reply #129 on:** July 28, 2012, 09:55:06 AM »

Nathan, Bill has hit the nail on the head. We were all beginners at one time or another. I have only met one man that built his first control line stunt plane and made it look like he had been building for years. He got several flights on a trainer before we let him fly his bird. My first Flight Streak was built box stock.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #130 on:** July 28, 2012, 01:15:30 PM »

Nathan,

Sorry about all that sideways stuff also, but, you're doing fine with your build Thread. Lots of guys have Flite Streaks. I built a few as a kid!

I'm a newbie also, I don't have anything to fly that's CL and nothing finished!

Thing is, I have difficulty concentrating on any one single model. I generally work on a few at the same time.

I'll get this Flite Streak finished then start working on The New American until it's completed. I'll continue with that build.

I'll get a photo of my Flite Streak framed.

Yeah Baby!

Charles

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #131 on:** July 29, 2012, 08:14:10 PM »

Had to sit at the field for an hour or so today to wait for the wind to die down. I got two flights in today but hung it up early because of fuel tank issues again. I changed my tank back to the original one that broke. I resoldered it and soldered the vent tubes together inside the tank. I also changed the mounting from a single tin strap to two mounting tabs soldered to the tank. I am using a thin piece of closed cell foam in between the tank and the fuse. I doubt the foam is doing much because the tank is mounted pretty stiff. Anyway My fuel is foming; therefore, I can get no consistancy. I recieved another tank in the mail yesterday from Brodak and am going to try something I just don't know what. We had some flight experts join us but they had little incite to our problems. Instead they just seemed pleased to eat a stale hot dog roll.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #132 on:** July 29, 2012, 08:45:27 PM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 29, 2012, 08:14:10 PM

Had to sit at the field for an hour or so today to wait for the wind to die down. I got two flights in today but hung it up early because of fuel tank issues again. I changed my tank back to the original one that broke. I resoldered it and soldered the vent tubes together inside the tank. I also changed the mounting from a single tin strap to two mounting tabs soldered to the tank. I am using a thin piece of closed cell foam in between the tank and the fuse. I doubt the foam is doing much because the tank is mounted pretty stiff. Anyway My fuel is foming; therefore, I can get no consistancy. I recieved another tank in the mail yesterday from Brodak and am going to try something I just don't know what. We had some flight experts join us but they had little incite to our problems. Instead they just seemed pleased to eat a stale hot dog roll.

save youself the hassles. Get a 2oz plastic clunk tank, hook it up to muffler pressure, use a sintered brass clunk - engine problems over!!! if you need any more info -you can PM me ..

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #133 on:** July 29, 2012, 09:19:12 PM »

Wynn, I would but my engine is a pre-muffler type design. It did come with one but it's a strap on unit and it is pretty detrimental to performance. My next lane has an O.S. .20 FP and is has a plastic hayes clunk going on it.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #134 on:** July 29, 2012, 09:49:24 PM »

Ok - on the current one - same setup with sintered clunk - but plumb it as uniflow.

the 20 FP will LOVE muffler pressure (unless you want to do the BBTU)

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #135 on:** July 29, 2012, 10:10:06 PM »

...but since you are currently using a metal tank - Pressure check for leaks. Especially if you have soldered tabs or straps to it. The heat from soldering mounting hardware can open up leaks in the tank seams. As for foaming, a couple of drops of Armor All per gallon will eliminate it. Some may disagree withthis practice but it works. Check for leaks first though, if you find any you have found the problem.

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #136 on:** July 29, 2012, 10:38:46 PM »

Wynn, I'm gonna try and solve this with the tanks I have first then I'll switch to a different tank if necessary. I do realize the beneficial nature of the plastic clunks; however, I was trying to stay within the classic methods for this plane. I thought the BBTU used muffler pressure into the Hayes clunk? I gotta reread it; although, My engine doesn't quite qualify because it is a steely.
Balsa, I had some armorall in that fuel I think. It was the last of a quart. I pressure checked the tank prior to installing it but not after I installed the bracketry. I will re-check it. The engine does not seem to vibrate too much but the bubbles to correlate to engine speed.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #137 on:** July 29, 2012, 11:54:58 PM »

Just for what it's worth: bubbles may or may not be an issue. Uniflow setups introduce air close to the fuel intake so bubbles come with the territory. Try blocking off the uniflow and uncorking the overflow. The tank reverts to a suction tank. Does the concentration of bubbles remain unchanged? I still go with the leak theory, probably introduced after the brackets were soldered on.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #138 on:** July 30, 2012, 02:20:18 AM »

Individual adjustable leadouts can be made using eyelits. Everyone seems to figure out their own method of doing this. Words fail me. And I haven't got a handy diagram. Basically you want an interior wing tip that allows the eyelits to be repositioned in adjustment holes. A slit joining these holes allows the control wire to move forward and back. The idea is to have support for the eyelits with clearance to move the wire. If you choose you can open up a channel in the inside bays (perhaps two) so that the rear leadout can be moved forward. Usually that is not necessary with these comparatively short coupled birds. I have enlarged the stab and elevator when I built a few Streaks with longer nose and tail moments. This seemed to be beneficial when doing these mods. The increased moments helped those Streaks do a better pattern. Less bobble, smoother shapes. If stock moments are used, I would keep the stab/elevator the same. When the CG is put right, these birds turn and are great fun.

Weight box, always useful for trimming.

The top is a jr Streak powered by an FP15. Needle that baby till she screams. Use spider wire. Fabulous fun.

The bottom Streak uses an ARF wing. Moments were lengthened. Stab increased in size by about 30%. Power is a Tower 40 I setup for stunt. A good way to practice the pattern. Effective in Intermediate at local contests. Especially when not too many are sandbagging.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #139 on:** July 30, 2012, 02:42:51 AM »

Yep. I thought of hanging moveable flaps on the back of a Streak, widening the originals, using an enlarged stab/elevator. I even bought a set of Brodak Streak ribs. My thinking is to add a few more bays as well. I hope to psyche myself to build this plane in two weeks max. Just too many "serious" (I am laughing) stunt projects that need work.

The Brodak Streak uses the same airfoil as the original, but wing construction is conventional. Which is a convenience. Webbing between the spars with light weight wood makes the Brodak Streak wing as strong at the original. I guess.

I almost always go the field with a Streak or two, as well as a few more serious Stunt war wagon. When the winds are up, Streaks are still fun and low risk to splat.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #140 on:** July 30, 2012, 07:05:18 AM »

Quote

Yep. I thought of hanging moveable flaps on the back of a Streak,

Dennis,

I had flaps on a Flite Streak as a teenager, shortened the fuselage also, but I decided not to on my recent Flite Streak. Just didn't have the time and everyone said it "wasn't necessary." I did however, increased the area of the elevator, just a tad.

I'm still undecided on what engine I'm going to put in it. Probably the old fox .35 if it runs well.

Nathan,

I cannot help you with your tank issue, I'm learning there also, sorry. I can say this, as a kid, along with everyone else, we would start the engine, no mufflers, no pressure, no uniflow, and the thing would run until the tank was empty. Most of the time.

Nathan, did you notice if the stab was set at 0 degrees? It looks as if the original kit I'm building has a slight positive incidence in the stab. Might have been the way the fuselage was cut? I set it at 0.

Charles

dirty dan · « **Reply #141 on:** July 30, 2012, 12:36:15 PM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 29, 2012, 10:38:46 PM

Wynn, I'm gonna try and solve this with the tanks I have first then I'll switch to a different tank if necessary. I do realize the beneficial nature of the plastic clunks; however, I was trying to stay within the classic methods for this plane. I thought the BBTU used muffler pressure into the Hayes clunk? I gotta reread it; although, My engine doesn't quite qualify because it is a steely.

You can do both, just look at use of a plastic clunk tank as verifying or refuting engine run problems. As in if the thing won't run on a stock Hayes 3-ounce clunk tank you probably don't have tank-related issues.

As to your motor being a steelie I wouldn't give up on it just yet. No, I do not have any personal experience here; but it need not be trashed without some flight testing. You will surely need significantly more lube in the fuel with my suggestion being to use Klotz KL-200 to bring the oil up to around 25%. And it might require even more oil although at that point it might be best to just get the real thing, an ABN motor.

Dan

Bill Little · « **Reply #142 on:** July 30, 2012, 01:10:00 PM »

Quote from: dirty dan on July 30, 2012, 12:36:15 PM

You can do both, just look at use of a plastic clunk tank as verifying or refuting engine run problems. As in if the thing won't run on a stock Hayes 3-ounce clunk tank you probably don't have tank-related issues.

As to your motor being a steelie I wouldn't give up on it just yet. No, I do not have any personal experience here; but it need not be trashed without some flight testing. You will surely need significantly more lube in the fuel with my suggestion being to use Klotz KL-200 to bring the oil up to around 25%. And it might require even more oil although at that point it might be best to just get the real thing, an ABN motor.

Dan

Sir Daniel of Dirt,

I have a good bit of experience with a steelie OS .20FP set up per Brett's suggestions. As long as the right fuel is used it doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference. (it does help to run a tiny bit more oil than in the ABN FPs at least in the heat around here)

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #143 on:** July 30, 2012, 04:35:42 PM »

Wow, Lots of info here. The plane ran great with my previous tank and mounting. Which were a standard vented 3 oz. Brodak tank with a single strap and some foam behind the tank. The problem with this set-up was that the tank meandered too much. Often the aft section of the tank would be a 1/4" or so below engine centerline. So I deceided to try a more stiff mounting.
As for the Steelie .20 FP I'm gonna run her as per the BBTU to the best of my bilities. My fuel is 10% with 23% oil 50/50 syn castor. All of my O.S.'s seem to like it.
As for chnging the moments and the elevators I am going to give ol' Mr. Aldridge the benefit of the doubt and say he knew more about this than I ever will lol and just have fun stock until I see were I need some changes.
Thanks for all the responses guys. I'm gonna run some tests either tonight or tomorrow so I'll get back to you with results.

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #144 on:** July 30, 2012, 05:07:17 PM »

So I pressure checked the tank and it is not leaking. I also rechecked all screw and bolts and nothing was loose. I am considering changing over to a J hook and rurrrrer band mounting but have yet to pull the trigger.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #145 on:** July 30, 2012, 06:59:35 PM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 30, 2012, 05:07:17 PM

So I pressure checked the tank and it is not leaking. I also rechecked all screw and bolts and nothing was loose. I am considering changing over to a J hook and rurrrrer band mounting but have yet to pull the trigger.

Nathan,

Back in the day, we drilled four small holes in the fuselage, two on top and two on the bottom for the tank spread, then used mechanic's wire with twists to hold the tank. Tightened right to the fuselage with no padding. GA stainless would be better, the wire used to keep drilled bolts from loosening.

Did you follow the plans for your rudder offset?

I'm close to covering.

Charles

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #146 on:** July 30, 2012, 07:28:27 PM »

No Charles I did not I reduced the amount of off-set and pretty well centered the forward portion on the fuse. rather than having it off to the left side. Right now I am not too high o any form of hard mounting a metal tank. I have had too many problems with fuel bubbles and foaming.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #147 on:** July 30, 2012, 07:49:32 PM »

Quote from: nathan Metzner on July 30, 2012, 05:07:17 PM

So I pressure checked the tank and it is not leaking. I also rechecked all screw and bolts and nothing was loose. I am considering changing over to a J hook and rurrrrer band mounting but have yet to pull the trigger.

thats how I used to mount mine of profiles - you can also make a ply backing that the rubber bands go on which is then scewed to the fuse - screws go through a slot in the ply so you can adjust up and down as required.

nathan Metzner · « **Reply #148 on:** July 30, 2012, 08:06:06 PM »

Wynn, I really like that idea. I am having a hard time picturing how the bands connect to the ply. Do you have any pictures of that arrangment? I have some ply that should work and I could make use of the holes I have already drilled both of these things appeal to me greatly.

dirty dan · « **Reply #149 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:00:41 PM »

Nathan,

There's another way, keeping in mind that not only must the tank be secured properly, it ought be readily adjustable, and be a light installation.

Obtain either 2-56- or 4-40-sized inner rods from one of those tube-in-a-tube pushrod sets so commonly used in RC models.

Drill suitably sized holes in your fuselage, two on upper side of tank, two on the bottom. Give these a vertical spacing which will allow moving the tank up and down at least 1/4 inch, quite likely more if using the Hayes 3-ounce tank. (This tank is not symmetrical and typically needs to be mounted about 3/16" high.)

Noting the pilot holes need to be a little tight (13/64" if using 4-40 tube) pound in short lengths of this tubing. Hit them with thin CA.

Now you need some hooks and these are easily bent up from that threaded-one-end metal rod (again used in many RC control systems) available at Local Hobby. (It's worth noting that SIG sells 4-40 threaded hooks which are ready to use, although they are sometimes a bit short for my applications.) Lots of ways to bend these hooks and I prefer to use snipe-nose pliers.

Screw hooks into receptacles installed per above.

Install tank. Yes, you can use rubber bands even if that's quite tacky. Or there are lots of .060- and .090-inch "O" rings out there which you will find handy and quite reliable.

Note that tank is now free to move up and down under flight loads. During first tests it's okay to make balsa or ply shims of various thicknesses in order to shim tank to whatever height seems correct. I typically use shims as thin as 1/64-inch with the rest thicker. (Later on, with tank in "magic" position, you can fabricate shims which will not get soaked with oil.)

At the field you can run the engine while a helper holds. Get an rpm reading both upright and inverted. Any differences will be a clue as to shimming tank.

Fly the model. Even with above test it probably won't be right. Shim accordingly, noting that you will merely be, for example, removing an upper shim and replacing it below the tank. Total shim stack stays the same, meaning there are no issues with measuring, counting shims and so on.

Do not be satisfied with flying tests which are limited to upright and inverted flight. Fly maneuvers instead with horizontal 8s being valuable although not necessarily the final word, depending upon how experienced you are and how critical you want to be in getting the best engine runs possible.

Dan