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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: John Miller on September 19, 2009, 05:32:22 PM
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Two weeks ago, I cut out the parts for my new twin engined stunter. It's what I call a Phantasy Scale Stunter. Imagine, if you will, the Germans needing a close air support/air superiority aircraft, esp. on the eastern front where they were being heavily schooled by the Russian tank bustinng Il-2 Stormovik, the first of it's kind, destroying German armor at will.
I imagined that the Nazis managed to steal some plans from the US, particularly for the Grumman F5U Skyrocket.
How would they have built something similar?
Here is my idea of what such a plane might look like. I call it Zweipanzerflug.
I might have been further along, but I had to build a second set of nacells as the first, original set were going to be too heavy. I redesigned them to use RC style motor mounts. Other changes as well, allowed me to save 6.5 oz's total for both nacells, with engines, tanks, props, and spinners. I hope this savings will allow me to come in at a good flying weight.
A few specs:
575 sq inches wing area.
44 oz's projected finished weight.
Power is a pair of Magnum .15XLS engines.
Props, 9X4 APC's
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And the pilot(s) sit where? ;D
Jim
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Why, in the painted on cockpit of course. y1 ~> H^^
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John,
That's Awesome! I love it. And you're a faster builder than me.
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John, that looks very cool, now how is the pilot going to see if you are going to "tint" the canopy a dark color? ;D
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Matt, come on now, you are not that isolated are you? I have cars pass me in which I wonder if someone is driving them because the tint is so dark. But, when you get in the car it is very easy to see out as long as all the windows are rolled up. Similar to the one two way mirrors, lights off in the one room the glass looks like a mirror in the lighted room. Soon as light is turned on in the dark room you can see both ways. DOC Holliday
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... and to not forget the positively teutonic 37mm tank-buster cannon!
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Matt, come on now, you are not that isolated are you? I have cars pass me in which I wonder if someone is driving them because the tint is so dark. But, when you get in the car it is very easy to see out as long as all the windows are rolled up. Similar to the one two way mirrors, lights off in the one room the glass looks like a mirror in the lighted room. Soon as light is turned on in the dark room you can see both ways. DOC Holliday
No DOC, I'm not isolated, just poking fun at John. If it's a semi-scale or even fantasy scale, I think it should have a canopy, my opinion. John it's up to you what you want, it still looks good H^^
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No DOC, I'm not isolated, just poking fun at John. If it's a semi-scale or even fantasy scale, I think it should have a canopy, my opinion. John it's up to you what you want, it still looks good H^^
While I'm usually the first to insist on a real canopy, I'm cutting a few corners on this one. Mostly because I want to see extactly what my most minimum wing loading can be. After I've played with this one a bit, I'll build another, probably E-powered, with those retracts, and a nice cockpit detailing.
OR, I could say that the Nazis had been studying using sound and Radar for navigation, so no windows were needed. Yeah, that's it. S?P
Dennis, "... and to not forget the positively teutonic 37mm tank-buster cannon!".
Funny you should mention this. I'm considering mounting at least one, and perhaps 4, 10 or 20mm. Firing from the planes centerline should make them very accurate, ehh?
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Dennis, "... and to not forget the positively teutonic 37mm tank-buster cannon!".
Funny you should mention this. I'm considering mounting at least one, and perhaps 4, 10 or 20mm. Firing from the planes centerline should make them very accurate, ehh?
One really big cannon mounted low slung on centerline would look, uh, masculine! b1 n1 LL~ LL~ LL~
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Hmmm, I see your point. Perhaps two? LL~ LL~
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"One really big cannon mounted low slung on centerline would look, uh, masculine! b1 n1 LL~ LL~ LL~"
And with a large drum magazine mounted on each side of the cannon breech------ VD~
Jim
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Puts me in mind of the Gumman Skyrocket.
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Groan,, this thread sure drifted,, sigh,, cannons ,, drum ammo feeders,, sigh
John, looks like a fun project go be sure,,
Next up,, a Blohm and Voss BV-161 ;) ?
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Mark,
Lighten up, let us have a little fun!! ;D
Cheers,
Jim
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Jim,
No! This is like the NFL (No Fun League). Probably why I like college football though they are getting there.
don't pay any attention John. I think it's great and will be interesting as heck in the air.
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Have fun guys, I can take it, I hope..... ::)
I think it'll be a very different looking stunter. The numbers are good except for having to deal with a lower thrust line, but I think I've got it covered. Thanks to all for your comments, even if some are close to being X rated.... b1
Yesterday, I got the Polyspan installed on the flying surfaces. Today, I intend to align, and install the fuse, stab, and nacells. This is about the most important part of building a twin. Alignment is critical to whether it flies like a dog, or brilliantly. Wish me luck. H^^
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OK I'll try to keep my commentary on the up&up.
* Randy is right college IS football, NFL is the no fun league (uh, how 'both dem Huskies???)
* John: looking over the plans, one unusual feature is the very low AR stab/elev. To be sure it will be helped out some by the end plates (dual fins) However, have you ever used anything like that before?
Today I got a PF for the purpose of making IT a twin... will post when there is something to say about it.
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Great news Dennis, I take it you got the plans?
Yes, the AR of the stab and elevator is low. and I am depending on the twin rudders to increase the efficiency of the elevator. They both come to about 25% of the wing area.
It was Kieth Trostle who suggested the present AR a couple of years ago when I showed him an early set of plans. I personally have not used a low AR stab-elevator, so I'm going by gut feelings and suggestions by others.
I'll soon see if it will work or not. H^^
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John,
That is a great and unique project.
But..... "Why, in the painted on cockpit of course. ".. This is forboetten! Das pilot must see better... Ya?
I would think that a custom formed canopy would weigh less than a painted block.
I have just finished making a unique shaped plug for an OTS (Classified) airplane that I am building in honor of John Miske.The extra work is worth it.
I think that you have it covered well with the low AR stab/elevator. As with all new designs, you will probably make some changes on the 2nd one. But, probably a very few.
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Jim,
my coment was tongue in cheek and in humor, not in anyway intended as a slam. I was only poking at John and others, sorry if it read wrong.
Hey John, I have a really awesome WW2 pilot figure,, hes even in German Garb,,,,,, hint hint,,,
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"Hey John, I have a really awesome WW2 pilot figure,, hes even in German Garb,,,,,, hint hint,,,"
Ya Ya!
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Even the best laid plans...... I started out with good intentions, even got the silkspan attached to the flaps and rudders. I took a break, and went to the local favorite B'fest and coffee shop just down the road.
Well, as luck would have it, One of my friends needed some painting done. So sense I needed the $, I went to work for the rest of the day.
Got home in pain due to a eruption of a tooth ache, so I took some pain killers, and laid down until the pain went away. Woke up at 2:30 this morning. Hmmmm, should I try to work on the plane? The pain came back after only 30 minutes, so more pain killer, and back to bed.
I've been thinking, when lucid, about a clear canopy, and cockpit detail. I really wanted to just paint on the canopy, save the weight, and time for this prototype. Marks implied offer of a fantastic WW2 German pilot, may put me over the line. It wouldn't be too hard to do, since I've come up with an idea that wouuld use much of the existing structure, and I coulod use flat sections of clear Butyrate glued into the framework.
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John,
Now your talking!
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Hey John, I'm afraid your bones are Teutonic. Mine are Gallic.
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John, I may even be coerced into painting the little dude for you.
your thoughts on the canopy are pretty much what I did on my bf 109, 1/8" balsa with 1/64 ply facings to form the canopy frame. Then flat stock glued onto it to form the canopy. It looks pretty good to me. Had I actually finished painting it, you may have seen it this year,, of course I didnt yet,, and besides you didnt come to any contests up here so it doesnt matter,,,, S?P
Let me know man,, I will make him super special for ya!
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Mark, you silver tongued devil. I had in mind the BF 109 canopy when I was working it out last night. Pain can cause some vivid hallucinations. OK, I'll do it.
I'm so breaking my own arm patting myself on the back. I covered the wing with polyspan, from tip to tip, including the Nobler style wing tips. They look good to this old buzzard. Who says you can't do wing tips with polyspan?
Tonight, I'll join the wing to the fuselage for sure. I hope to instal the elevator pushrod, and ths stab. I will probably have to set up the Nacells tomorrow. They really have to be dead on or I can have problems with tracking, so I need to measure three times, glue once.
Randy, my Gallic friend. My bones are so mixed up. I'm a true Hienz 57, a product of the melting pot that once was America. Though to be honest, with my Scot, Welsh, and Yorkshire ancestors, mixed up with my German, Austrian, Prussian, and Swiss ones, I'm about 50-50 Gallic and Tuetonic. A much nicer mix than my ex wife who was half Norwegian, half German... mw~ mw~ HB~> HB~>
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Mark,
No problem at all---------we're just having fun while we can!!
Feel the love!! :o
Jim
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John,
At least all yours come from the same region of the world. How about Welsh/Scottish/Apache/Cherokee in pretty much equal portions with a light sprinkle of German. Makes for some odd looking relatives.
Edit
I should say that my grandfather came over on the boat from Wales. His name was Ernstgert ap Hwyl. It was changed at Ellis Island to Ernie Powell
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Hmmmmm....... mostly German with Dutch and Cherokee here.
Of course, John, if you DON"T go with a clear canopy, it could be one of the planes (like the JU-88s) they hooked to the bottom of Fw-190s and loaded up with TnT! I really can't remember what that was called, it's 3AM here and I have been up a LONG time! LOL!1
Mongo
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Here's an progress report on this project. All parts have been covered except the Fuse and Nacells. I'm holding off on them until I get the canopy figured out, and have the incidences set for the engines.
As it sits, with what you see, and the flaps and elevator, weight is 22 oz's.
Still looking good for a mid 40 oz finish.
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Lookin great John!!
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If and when that gets finished it should scare the competition away. I like it. DOC Holliday
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I like it and I also like your nice clean work bench. Hope you have had good summer. HB~> HB~>
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Thanks guys, and Leo, I'm building in my small mobile home. Not a lot of room, so I keep all the stuff on the work bench so I can find it. LL~
I put some time on the project today. One of the Nacells is mounted. I messed up a little on the motor mount, and had way too much downthrust. Had to rebuild it once I had the incidence right. tomorrow, I'll mount the other one.
I did make a mold for the canopy, and formed one. It looks good sitting in place.
I used the soda pop bottle method.
Here're some pics of the mold process.
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What did you use for the canopy, looks a bit like a mountain dew bottle.
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I used a Sprite bottle. I wanted a green canopy as I'm planning to use a camo trim and feel that the green will work good with it. Wouldn't it be great if they made 2 liter soda bottles in more colors? y1 H^^
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Wow that canopy really looks good & teutonic also. This project is REALLY coming together for ya!
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John,
send me the dimensions of the interior of the canopy so I can trim the pilot dude before I paint him up,,
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John,
send me the dimensions of the interior of the canopy so I can trim the pilot dude before I paint him up,,
Hi Mark, The length is 5.5" to where the angled bulkheads start, about 2" from the floor to the extreme high spot, and slightly more than 2" wide at the widest part.
I'm actually happy that you guys talked me into using a conopy. It does make the plane look better.
I'll attach a photo or two of the plane with all the major parts in place. The stab and elevator looks good, and not too low AR.
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Mark,
Make sure there's a slot in the pilot's posterior. He's going to get quite a massage from the pushrod. Wheeeeee!@!!
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What can I say Randy. it is Tuetonic....... >:D #^ ~> S?P H^^
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Update, I built and installed a pair of super charger intakes. I also installed the armement. It now has a pair of 7.9mm, a pair of 20mm, and a pair of 30mm in the nose.
I've installed small magnets to close the cowls with, installed leather fillets, several coats of butyrate, one coat of primer, and sanded most of that off.
Tomorrow, I'll spray on a coat of platinum grey for an undercoat.
Almost ready for color.
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If I ever use Nitrate dope under butyrate again, I hope someone kicks my butt ~^
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I'm with you, John. Don't understand how so many get away with nitrate first coats, then butyrate. Nothing but grief! About all you can say for nitrate is that it fills the pores better than butyrate. I take Windy's advice and go with Brodak start to finish!
Floyd
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I take Windy's advice and go with Brodak start to finish!
I do too, and have never had a problem.
By the way John, it's looking great!!
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I took the new plane to club meeting last night. It had a alligator looking surface from problems I'm assuming come from the two different dopes. The consensus from my clubmates was that many had used Nitrate, as base coats with great success in the past, but they seem less compatible today. The theory was put forward that with changes mandated by invironmental laws, has made them less able to tolerate each other.
This morning, the crazing has settled down and appears less a problem. I'll be able to save the finish I believe, but never again will I use anything except Butyrate from the wood up.
One of my clubmates used to work as an advisor to the military. He specialized in specifications and operational matters on other nations aircraft. We spent almost an hour discussing the Axis Ground attack aircraft, units, markings, and their weapons systems. I've been told, (if I remember correctly), that those 30mm cannons fired at a rate of about 400 rounds per minute, and were awsome with their effect on target aircraft, and armor.
As you can see, I'm having fun with this project dispite any pitfalls as to paints. HB~> H^^
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I think you're right John. Various formulation can cause all kinds of problems. I'm convinced that some of the finishing problems I've had recently have been due to using two (or more) different batches of paint. Even if they came from the same company, let alone different kinds of paint.
Now I use the same stuff from the same can from the wood up.
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John,
I can't help but agree with you, on no more Nitrate, considering my "Sea Vixen" cronicles. The crazing never really stopped over the wood areas, and the covering continues to split on its own. I am working on some other projects, then will completely strip the "Vixen". Hopefully I can start the refinishing in about a month or less.
I am working on an OTS airplane in tribute to John Miske.
I am also working a 2 new projects, one for PAMPA expert. (Highly Classified)
For the other program, the CAD work is about 80% completed. It will be "Out of the Box thinking" (Also Classified)
The "HOBO" is coming!
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John,
I can't help but agree with you, on no more Nitrate, considering my "Sea Vixen" cronicles. The crazing never really stopped over the wood areas, and the covering continues to split on its own. I am working on some other projects, then will completely strip the "Vixen". Hopefully I can start the refinishing in about a month or less.
I am working on an OTS airplane in tribute to John Miske.
I am also working a 2 new projects, one for PAMPA expert. (Highly Classified)
For the other program, the CAD work is about 80% completed. It will be "Out of the Box thinking" (Also Classified)
The "HOBO" is coming!
I'll be looking forward to seeing your stealth projects. I'm sure they'll be spectacular as usual.
Gordan came over yesterday, and we consulted on the finish problem on the "flug". It's been decided that I will apply 3 more coats of clear butyrate, and then one coat of silver. After a few curing days, I'll sand off the silver, and try to not sand through the clear. This should level the finish so the problem won't affect it anymore.
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John,
I am keeping my fingers crossed for you.
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John,
did you already sluck the canopy in place? like permenantly even?
hmm almost had the german dude ready to send your way,, let me know man!
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Hi Mark, no, the canopy is just sitting in place. I'm holding off on finishing the cockpit, and the rest of the plane for the German "dude".
Are you going to the Follies?
H^^
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John, No, the Follies are a no go for me this year. I have had to take a forced sabbatical from stunt the last half of this year. Just to many irons in the fire and no planes finished to fly, well except my poor reliable profile Gee Bee but its getting pretty tired,,,,
I will have a new fleet ready for next year. They are all built, just need painting.
at least thats my story for now,,,
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I understand. In my case, funds, with the current economy, have been next to non-existant, so only VSC for me this year.
Hope next year to make the Regionals.
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Yea, same for me. Money is a scarce commodity. I should make VSC next year, though. Hopefully, things will have lightened up and I can make it to contests next year. Be nice if the kid could find a job so I could stop supporting him.
Anybody know of jobs in Olympia, WA. ;D
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Gordan came over yesterday, and we consulted on the finish problem on the "flug". It's been decided that I will apply 3 more coats of clear butyrate, and then one coat of silver. After a few curing days, I'll sand off the silver, and try to not sand through the clear. This should level the finish so the problem won't affect it anymore.
Well, I did it. I sanded the clear coats this morning and just finished sparaying a very light coat of polar grey, with some white added to lighten it up a little. I believe it worked, and saved me from having to strip the finish and start over.
Here are a few pics.
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John,
That is a really neat design! H^^
I love the lines, and proportions you used. Can't wait to see the finish trim, and flight reports.
Too bad the early Werhmact designers didn't have your artistic talents. Most of their early airplanes used a green house style canopy, probably because the designers were farmers, before they lowered their social status to war plane designers. LL~
Bill (very old farm boy, and proud of it!)
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Thank you for the kind words Bill.
I've slowed the pace a little as I'm awaiting the arrival of the pilot, so I can finish up the cockpit. I've applied the sky blue to the bottom. I was going to use the red and white stripes from the "Defense of the Reich" color scheme, but I've taken to watching the weight build up as I get closer to finished.
H^^
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Mark better get the pilot to Utah quick. The 4th Reich is getting impatient.
John, the plane looks awesome.
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Dude,
uh,
perhaps I could have better luck if I had your uh,, mailing address!
so email it to me,,
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Mark, very easy, go to msn.com, then white pages, of course have to go to John's profile to see where he lives in Utah. I discovered over ten pages of John Millers in the state of Utah. The city narrows it down. That is how I found Wayne Buran and was lucky as he was only one in the state. DOC Holliday
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Good advice Doc,,,
but I think its easier to make John do some work too, lol
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Mark, I e-mailed you my addy, did you get it? #^ H^^
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Yes, I did,
I was over at the shop painting a Pylon racer today,,, just got home. The "dude" / test pilot will be on its way to you.
He looks pretty happy to be going to some one elses test program,, not sure what that says about the rumors floating around in my Pilot figure stash drawer, I think perhaps some of my experience pilot figures have been spreading stories about my flying skills?
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Mark, I don't know why you keep saying stuff like that, about your pilot figures being skeered. Your "bottoms" are so high that they'd cause Acrophobia sufferers to get nose bleeds! Work on that, wouldja?
Greg and I missed you in Salem. You may have noticed that I flew Advanced. The Judges were Meanies...
LL~ Steve
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Steve,
its not the bottoms that kill them,, it is the tops,, they are so over the top you know,, lol
I know you moved up, thats why I stayed away, figured I would let you have one shot without me there to brutalize ya,, lol
next year man,, can you say epic contests,, ?
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Epic,
Well, since I'm dropping down to Advanced... ;D
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Randy,,
two words,,
BRING IT!!!
~^
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#^ I'm hoping yout pilot dudes don't know about my flying. I thought I'd solved the rumor problem in the pilot storage bin, by using non-standard pilots. Darth Vader being one of my favored pilots because he has no fear, what with being allied with the Dark Side of the "Force". Trouble is, recently converting over to actual Military style pilots has not improved my flying. I think they found out the truth. :!
So, let's see, Steve, Mark, and Randy flying advanced at next years Regionals, I won't have a chance.
As for the "Flug", I'm going to apply the base green of the splinter style camo today.
I'm still awaiting the venturiis for the engines, but I'm having a lot of fun with this one. H^^
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Just kidding, guys. If I'm going to lose, I'd rather lose to the best. I'll stick with Expert.
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Randy,
first I am flattered that you think we in Advanced would beat you,
but second,, if we did beat you,, we would be the best,,
well the best in advanced anyway,, LL~
John, sorry we have kinda hijacked your thread,,, but I cant let Randy off you know,, n1
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Here are the fruits of last weeks labor. I've got the basic paint and trim in place. I won't install the balkenkrus and swastika decals or the other bits of trim, until after the cockpit detail is finished, and the canopy is set into it's final place.
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Looks great John. I love the darker shade of green, looks great!
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John,
I look forward to seeing it at the Regionals next year.
Mark,
>>first I am flattered that you think we in Advanced would beat you,
but second,, if we did beat you,, we would be the best,,
well the best in advanced anyway<<
My point exactly.
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Ok, I couldn't wait, so here it is basically finished as far as trim goes.
Cockpit details, and engine mounting to be finished.
I'm happy with the results.
Hope to be able to test fly it before the snow flies.
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John,
your test pilot should be there any minute now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Yeah, he's probably getting last minute instructions from the Air Marshal.
Thanks Mark for your pilot dude. I'll try to give him a great ride. H^^
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Showed the wife pictures of the plane. She turned her nose up, so I may build one just to irritate her. Looks great to me. DOC Holliday
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Well. today I got both engines setup with venturiis. I mounted everything up, including the stock mufflers. It weighs in at 48 oz's. The math worked, and the balance is right on target. I'm very happy so far. #^
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John,
Excellent! H^^
How about a picture or two of her off the work bench?
She looks good now, but pictures without all the background clutter would be so much nicer. ;D
Bill
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Here ya go Bill. I took her out to the porch and an unclutterred table.
#^
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As teutonic as, Lilly Von Schtupp! ("A wed wose. How womantic.")
Great job John!
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Looking better by the minute. Has the pilot arrived yet? Is the cockpit detail finished and ready for das pilot's preflight?
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Thank you all for your support, and generous comments. It's been a fun project, and I hope to have the initial test flights soon. The pilot is still meeting with the air Marshall. I'm sure that he's having the importance the great leader has placed on this being a successful test project, driven into his conscious and sub-conscious.
His mount will be awaiting when he gets here, but the cockpit will be sized to fit, so it'll be a few days after he gets here. #^
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DANG he should be there!
Maybe he stopped off in Boise to see Pat on the way by, Knowing Pat has his spitfire in progress perhaps he wanted to spy on the competition?
Sorry John, didnt mean for this to hold you up,, sigh,,
Hope when he arrives you will feel its worth the wait
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John,
Outstanding! H^^
I've never built a twin engined anything, but your design makes me want to do one just like that. ;D
Looking forward to the flight report, and if it flys even half as good as it looks, it should be published and kitted.
Bill
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Mark, not a problem. He'll be here soon, and maybe he was able to put some fear into Pat's pilot. I'll need all the help I can get..... :## I really appreciate your doing this for me.
Bill, Twins are a lot of fun, and the sound is soo different. The prop disk area from the two props, in this case, will be more than a 12 inch prop. The thrust, and power that comes from a pair of good running engines is suprizing.
All of the rest of you guys, I appreciate your comments, and have enjoyed playing with the "Tuetonic Bones".
Now, I really do have high hopes for the flying quality. All the math, ,and figuring will hopefully prove out positive. H^^
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Mark, not a problem. He'll be here soon, and maybe he was able to put some fear into Pat's pilot. I'll need all the help I can get..... :## I really appreciate your doing this for me.
Bill, Twins are a lot of fun, and the sound is soo different. The prop disk area from the two props, in this case, will be more than a 12 inch prop. The thrust, and power that comes from a pair of good running engines is suprizing.
All of the rest of you guys, I appreciate your comments, and have enjoyed playing with the "Tuetonic Bones".
Now, I really do have high hopes for the flying quality. All the math, ,and figuring will hopefully prove out positive. H^^
Hi John,
Are you still flying your twin Flite Streak surfboard? That sounded pretty good when you got both engines happening.
Bill
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Hi John,
Are you still flying your twin Flite Streak surfboard? That sounded pretty good when you got both engines happening.
Bill
Hi Bill,
The "surfboard" is hanging on the wall. I had a landing incident about 5 years ago when I accidentally hit someones launching stooge when landing. I didn't know it was there, so it came as a suprize to me.
I need to strip it and check to make sure all damage is fixed. Since I have other, newer, planes to fly in Classic, and Profile, such repairs have been on the back burner, and may remain so for some time.
For profile, I've a Pathfinder twin that is a killer flier. thus, another reason for lack of action on the Twin Flightstreak.
This current twin should bridge the gap between the profile and PAMPA classes #^ H^^
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Well, the pilot arrived today. He had a slight air about him of cheap wine, so I'm suspecting that he stopped at a sporting house on the way here.
Mark he looks great, you did a good job with him. Pete Peterson was here when he arrived, took one look at him, and said," He looks like Leo."
Darned if he doesn't.
He's being fitted to the cockpit. He's a perfect fit. He already looks at home in the cockpit. But, he still looks like Leo,,,,, :o
Thanks Mark, and ya know I'm just funnin' wit ya. S?P
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Glad he arrived in one peice,, or ,, well part of a peice, or,, heck if he looks like leo to you,, I begin to wonder what YOU have been imbibing,,
Hmm Pete is there huh,, I see , he can travel all the way there, and see YOU, but he cant come here to fly with me,, sheesh, I see how I rate,,,
Looking forward to seeing pictures of the well trained lad in place in his new mount,,
and if he begins muttering something about taking control during the regionals,, I promise he wasnt trained to steal control on your official flights so I can have an advantage, I promise!
Leo huh, hmmmm
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Hey Guys, here's the pilot getting used to the front office of the Zweipanzerflug. Because of his uncanny resemblence to another pilot I know, I've named him Leo. Full name Leo Von Fluggenboomer, the scourge of the eastern front. y1
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If you are referring to the Leo I know, I hope he takes it as a compliment as the pilot looks great to me. Looks like a lot of work.
Mark, maybe you were not home when Pete knocked on the door. LL~ LL~ Great work on the pilot. DOC Holliday
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well??????
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It's siting on the table as I write this Mark. I'm having a couple of issues to resolve before test flights are attempted.
The engines are mounted, but there're problems with the Venturi's. They are too large. I've orderred new ones with smaller id's. I also am awaiting on recieving the posts to fit in the venbturi's.
I used vinyl decals and they have curled around the edges when I tried to seal over them with dope. Now, I've finished drawing the files for making paint masks, and will have them cut at the local sign shop.
Then, I'll be able to finish her up.
Hope all this happens soon though, we've been having great weekend weather here.
John
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Are you sure your plane is not British, and captured by some German special forces?
http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/on/m22/m22.htm
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Are you sure your plane is not British, and captured by some German special forces?
http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/on/m22/m22.htm
I hadn't considered that possibility. Of coarse, as a Fantasy Scale design, it very well may have. Igt also may have actually been an updated prototype, captured from the Blackhawk Squadron.
y1 H^^
I'm still working on getting the engines completely converted over, and the final trim and clear coats.
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A very impressive airplane. John, I have a couple of questions. The instruments shown for checking incidence are new to me. I am also interested in the soda pop bottle method of forming a canopy. I did a search and couldn't find anything. Can you advise? Thanks.
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Dick, thank you for your kind compliment about the plane.
The instruments are known as Robart incidence meters. They are available from several sources, Tower perhaps being the easiest to access. If you catch a sale right, you may save a few bucks as well.
I prefer to have at least a pair of them, so I can check two incidences at the same time. for instance, I'll set the wing at 0-0, and while leaving the meter attached to the wing, I'll attach a second one to the engine, and check the thrust line. By having two meters, I can compare between the wing and the thrust line. It let's me know if I've bumped, or accidentally moved the plane, throwing my meters off.
Leaving the meter on the wing, I can move the second meter to the stab and check the incidence there.
When finished, I can be reasonably sure that things are where I want them to be.
Gordan Delaney has found something recently that surprised both of us. He aligned his stab and set the incidence where he wanted it, but after installing the bottom block, he rechecked and found the new block had pulled his stab out of alignment, and was giving him negative stab incidence. He was able to reestablish the incidence he wanted, thus possibly saving a ton of frustration during the trimming stages.
Up until this particular build, neither of us had considered the possibility of an added part causing such a major misalignment.
There are at least two styles of incidence meters available. One uses a spirit bubble, and a meter (Robart), the other uses a laser pointer. I've no experience with the laser pointer, so I prefer the first style.
Making a canopy from a soda bottle is fun, and relatively easy to do. You are limited size wise to what you can get out of a 2 liter bottle, though I have seen some drinks coming in a 3 liter bottle. In any case you're limited by the size of the bottle.
Soda bottles are usually PET plastic, and will tolerate butyrate dope being applied over it, an advantage in my mind.
The first order of business is to make your plug, or mold.
You can use most any material that can withstand some heat. I tend to use some of that hard balsa that I can't use for anything else to carve out the plug. I've found it helpful to make the skirts a bit over sized so I have enough material to trim after the canopy is formed.
Once the plug is sanded smooth and ready, it's time to start the forming process.
Cut the top, or the bottom off the bottle. For me, the shape of the canopy determines whether I cut the top or bottom off, but once that's done, insert your plug (mold), and insert enough filler wood to sort of jam the plug in there, so it won't easily move.
Get out your monokote heat gun, and start shrinking the plastic bottle. It will readily shrink, and in a few minutes, after cooling, remove the filler pieces, and the plug. You're ready to trim your canopy.
From there, it's the same as installing any other canopy.
H^^
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Thank you John. That method of making a canopy is so much easier than another method I read about that required an oven and involved pulling a flat sheet of plastic down over the plug clamped in a vise, with a window of opportunity of about 5 seconds. That method could also leave foul odors in the oven. I also don't have a vise in the kitchen or an oven in the garage. LL~
I remember back when I was building jet style planes but never tried forming my own canopy. I would buy large RC canopies and cut out the part that I needed. It was OK, but I never ended up with a perfect match.
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Yes Dick, it is an easy method. I learned it from an article some time back. Until I tried it, I always thought that it was too difficult to make my own canopies.
Glad to pass it along. H^^
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FYI on the incidence meters,
I have one of the laser instruments, I am totally unsatisfied with it. It is not very well engineered. The laser does not want to align with the scale effectivly which makes it impossible to get a reading from it.
I am looking to purchase another meter style meter and my laser one is in the bottom , at the back, of the furthest drawer in my shop area....
Its a great idea, but unfortunatly it seems not enough energy was expended in design and manufacturing to make the lase toole effective...
my experience,, yours may differ.
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Regarding the two major brands of incidence meters, I recall comparing the accuracy claims for both. The gravity powered Robart unit, as I recall, is supposed to be twice as accurate, and doesn't need batteries, a plus. The second brand is/was Great Planes, it's a Laser unit, but I've not been able to find them at Tower to confirm the accuracy claims. It must be .25 degrees, because the Robart claim is .125 degrees. In addition to what John says, you can put one on the root chord and then each wingtip and check for warps. This doesn't work so good when the flaps are installed, but if you make the flaps and elevators removable, all is well, all the time. #^ Steve
Here's a nice tutorial on the use and functions of the Robart unit.
http://www.robart.com/how_to/incidence_meter.aspx (http://www.robart.com/how_to/incidence_meter.aspx)
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Any flights on the twin yet John?
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Not yet. It's too cold and 5 inches of snow on the field. I'm anxious to get it airborne, but have to wait.
Sigh........... ~^
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Whicked
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Hey John, put it on skis. LL~ LL~ LL~ HAPPY NEW YEAR
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Ski's. We don' need no steenking ski's
By the time I get bundled up to survive the cold, I can't move my arm or wrist. If I fall down, I have to lie there until someone takes pity and helps me up.
I'm thinking of taking it to Tucson for the SW Regionals next month.
H^^
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What's the latest on this one John? Any flights yet?
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I'm fitting new cowls. I fitted the originals before I had the venturiis made. The cowls had to have so much material removed to accept the venturiis that they were too weak, and would easily break.
It's been a slow progress, as I've had several drawings that must be finished before VSC. Combined with more work at my job, it's made time a rarity.
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WORK, like for real get paid work,, wow thats a GOOD thing John,,
well except for the interfering with important things like models,,;)
LL~
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I hear ya, work keeps getting in the way of my modeling too. I guess that's a good thing these days. Have fun at VSC, I'll be at, uh, work. ;D :## ;D
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Since I was unable to attend VSC this year, I decided to wrap up some projects. Of course, I'd made the changes, and repowered the Torino for VSC, so the bench was clear.
A month or so ago I got the Magnum .15's back from Glen Dye. He'd made me some great post style venturiis. I like using a post in the venturii esp. after Frank MacMillians (sp) article in Stunt News some years ago. His article showed that a post is slightly better than either of the other 2 types of fuel delivery. I also like the fact that the fuel line goes straight into the NVA, and the needle is opposite of the muffler.
After mounting one of the engines to fit the cowl, I found that I had a serious problem as the needle cutout would seriously compromise the strength of the cowl.
I set it aside while I worked on the Torino, but now that project was finished. The bench was clear. I needed to figure a way of modifying the existing cowls, or build a new pair. Being basically prone to the easiest solution, (No, I'm not lazy, I'm not I'm not, I'm not.) I figured that since the plane was supposed to be a German war plane, with roots to the designs from WW2 Messerscmidts, I thought a pair of radiators similar to the Me 109's might work.
I didn't like them until after I painted them and placed them in their proper locations. They looked right, so I went with them.
I had to peel off all the self adherring decals. They curled up around the edges when I tried to spray clear over them. What a mess, but the good part was that only a small amount of paint lifted, and most of that was limited to areas that will be under the new markings.
So I gave it a couple of clear coats which was interesting. Areas of the lighter splinter camo paint got a little blotchy, but it still looked right for a wartime paint job. Weathered and all.
New markings went on today, and here it is, ready for first flights, perhaps this Sunday if the weather holds.
I hope you enjoy the pictures, and the design.
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John,
Looks like that will do it. Looking forward to flight reports.
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John, John, JOhn,
them are some whimpy little cannons you got mounted there, I hope at the least they shoot depleted uranium rounds! I mean after all the Germans were into BIG bore guns,,
Looking forward to hearing how she flies,, pretty cool concept,,
are you coming to the regionals this year?
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Mark, I hope to be at the Regionals this year, if I can get me a set of industrial grade shades to help offset the glow of your sweet Avenger.
What do you mean wimpy/ A pair of 11 mm machine guns. a pair of 20mm cannons, and for the coup d gras, a pair of 37mm cannons. Sheesh, bigger would tear the plane apart.... ~> HB~>
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WOW!
LOOK WHAT I FOUND ON S-----STUNT this morning?
BEEEUUUTIFUL WORK, JOH N!!!
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John, Pat may MAY have his SPitfire ready for the regionals, at the least he will have a Mustang, and maybe a bearcat, so we of the Axis powers need to be prepared for the onslaught. My 109 is in finishing stages now,, so it will be on hand to help I hope
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Well, I hope you can finish up the 109 in time. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I might be able to bring additional reinforcements. Gordy's got his Tony flying real well on a Stalker .81RE. Let's see, that would be 3 Axis planes to Pat's 1,,, hmmmmm. S?P y1