Author Topic: Blue Fillet Material (Read 10653 times)

Howard Rush · « **on:** May 01, 2021, 04:56:52 PM »

Having spent the last few hours with the blue — um — stuff about which so many express enthusiasm, I offer my considered conclusion: it is awful and it sucks. The emperor has no clothes.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2021, 05:27:46 PM »

Sorry about that bub. I have never used he blue-un-stuff either. The finish cure epoxy and micro balloons has always worked well for me.
Hang in there and keep pitching!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Dennis Nunes · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2021, 05:50:09 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on May 01, 2021, 04:56:52 PM

Having spent the last few hours with the blue — um — stuff about which so many express enthusiasm, I offer my considered conclusion: it is awful and it sucks. The emperor has no clothes.

What issues are you having? I've used it on my last 5 planes with no problems. I use it just like Bob Hunt showed, tape the edges, lay it in thick with a popsicle stick (make sure there is no air bubbles), remove the excess using a stainless steel cake stylus tool dipped in alcohol. Then wait about 30-45 minutes and remove the tape, then smooth out with alcohol. Once cured, some very light sanding mostly to roughen up the surface for the dope to stick. Perfect every time.

It sure beats using polyester resin with micro-balloons that I used 40 years ago!

Dennis

Jim Svitko · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2021, 06:11:57 PM »

Are you referring to Super Fil? If so, what is wrong with it? It might be a bit difficult to spread but other than that it is far better than the Epoxolite I used in the past. The Super Fil hardens much faster than Epoxolite and sands much easier. I use MEK substitute to help spread it.

I never used micro balloons so I can't compare anything to micro balloons. As long as the Super Fil is doing the job for me I see no reason to use anything else.

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2021, 07:39:44 AM »

The old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't touch it", I guess that sort of applies here.

I have always been curious about what others are using to make fillets while I continue to use epoxy with micro balloons. I get great results using Bob Smith Industries 30 min mixed with micro balloons to a stiff consistency. I have tried the tape border idea but prefer to simply lay a bead into the crotch using a wire dragging the mix along. Then I wet an index finger with Naptha and drag it through the fillet. Naptha is less volatile than most dry solvents so it gives you the time for the lubrication needed to create the fillet shape. Keeping the finger wet you can build the fillet to the depth you want depending on the wing, stab or rudder size. Add more to build out or press into the remove any excess, drag along the edges to remove any excess. No tape lines to contend with and you can drag it completely around the LE and TE as desired. As it begins to set you can go back and touch up or shape any areas you wish.

But here's my concern with B.E. epoxy, you can't sand it to remove material if you have left too much. You can rough the surface with with 150 for the primer to bite but it's HEAVY.

So what more preferred? Is Epoxolite and micro-balloons easier to use, sand able and lighter? Pros and cons comparisons?

Windy's recently posted 1987 Nobler series showed him using DAP spackling for the fillets and for touch ups. I tried the DAP years back and had terrible results, it applied nice and sanded well, problem was the paint lifted even after ample coats of clear. My experience with off-the-shelf Home Depot materials for modeling is a no no.

Steve

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2021, 08:27:02 AM »

It is like your first shot of peach brandy, an acquired taste. Bob's advice produces spectacular results, especially the going over it after a bit while it is still soft and you can mold it. What I like most about it is how well it feathers the edges and how forgiving it is with mixing ratio's.

Give it another try on it's terms. After all you have 2 years worth left over!

Ken

Jim Svitko · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2021, 08:34:48 AM »

Yes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", applies here. The Super Fil is doing what I need so why change? Other methods might be better, depending on your point of view.

Maybe the problem some have with Super Fil is due to making the entire fillet out of Super Fil. Such a big glob might make it difficult to work with. I never tried it this way, or with any other filler material.

My fillets are not entirely Super Fil. To strengthen the wing-fuselage joint and the stab-fuselage joint, I glue in some balsa, such as triangle stock. Where the curvature is greatest, such as leading edge back to the wing high point, I will cut balsa into a rib shaped to match and glue that in. I wrap sandpaper around a section of brass tubing to get a radius and sand to contour. I clean up the edges, and any other irregularities, with Super Fil, and sand the Super Fil.

Until Super Fil showed up, I used Epoxolite in the manner described above. I believe Epoxolite has been discontinued for about five years now. Being able to use water to help spread Epoxolite and clean up was nice but it took two days to set up enough to sand it without the Epoxolite wadding up. And, it was like sanding a rock. It took forever.

Epoxolite was a Sig product.

dale gleason · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2021, 09:18:49 AM »

I've experienced one failure of Super-Fil and asked for help here on Stunt Hangar. One problem was the temperature in my basement work area was below that required for it to harden. The fillets stayed gummy for days and were easy to remove. Then I noticed the two-to-one mixing ratio specified in small print. Following directions solved my problem totally.

I've used micro balloons, epoxolite, and other materials quite successfully, but, find Super-Fil better, exponentially better.

dg

Kim Doherty · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2021, 02:15:05 PM »

I have been using Aeropoxy Light from Aircraft Spruce with excellent results. Good open time, not ultra critical on mix amounts, easy to shape and sand, takes paint well. Not entirely unlike Epoxolite. Not silly expensive.
Kim

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2021, 03:27:35 PM »

Exoxy stuff for larger fillets usually results in an imperfect job.; And sanding hard epoxy is nearly impossible..

I use leather fillets whenever possible. No mess, no failures.

For small fillets, I always go with slow-cure epoxy with lots and lots of micro-balloons. The additive reduces strength, but permits sanding.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2021, 03:54:03 PM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on May 02, 2021, 03:27:35 PM

Exoxy stuff for larger fillets usually results in an imperfect job.; And sanding hard epoxy is nearly impossible..sanding.

SuperFil is sands very easily.

I am not sure what problem Howard is having, but the one consequential downside I have found is that you have to use alcohol as a lubricant instead of water.

Brett

Trostle · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2021, 04:21:19 PM »

The only problem I have with the Aircraft Spruce provided Super Fill is its shelf life. After several years, it gets very difficult to work with. With a fresh supply, there is little problem with working this stuff. Great tools to work this is a set of ball bearings of different diameters - 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", and 7/8" epoxied to the end of dowel rods. These are sold separately by Jim Lee. Dipped in alcohol, these press the material into the joint, leaving a perfect radius. The material the round bearings leaves at the edges is easily cleared away with a thin easel blade. The only problem is the surface that is created is too smooth and has to be sanded to remove the gloss before paint.

Keith

Howard Rush · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2021, 04:32:27 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on May 02, 2021, 03:54:03 PM

I am not sure what problem Howard is having, but the one consequential downside I have found is that you have to use alcohol as a lubricant instead of water.

Jimby says water. You have to get your stories straight. This is a shoddy conspiracy.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2021, 04:35:53 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on May 02, 2021, 04:21:19 PM

The only problem I have with the Aircraft Spruce provided Super Fill is its shelf life.

My first batch was stiff on arrival. I sent a note to Aircraft Spruce, who told me it was new stuff. I used it around the house as spackle. This batch is a year old. It wasn't as abhorrent when it was fresh.

Tom Luciano · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2021, 06:19:00 PM »

Re: Superfill
I have found a drop or two of isopropyl alcohol makes all the difference. You can get it to a very smooth easy to spread consistency. Just remember a little goes a long way. Slows drying time and you can still do the smoothing process with alcohol and a instrument of choice. I have not had any ill effects from adding the alcohol.
My batch is 10 years old and still works great! Howard is right it makes a great filler around the house too!!

My contribution
Tom

wwwarbird · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2021, 06:34:42 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on May 02, 2021, 04:32:27 PM

Jimby says water. You have to get your stories straight. This is a shoddy conspiracy.

Definitely use alcohol.

I'm really curious where the dissatisfaction is coming from, I was hooked from the very first time I ever used Super Fil.

I prefer using a steady finger over any sort of tools, and no gloves. On long fillets, like all the way around a wing/fuselage joint, mix and apply only enough product to do one fillet at a time. During application make sure you don't trap any air underneath that may create a bubble while you're shaping the fillet. If you do happen to end up with a bubble simply poke it with a toothpick and then re-smooth the area. A key factor in the shaping and smoothing process is keeping everything good and wet with plenty of alcohol. Also, let any fillet work fully cure before going on to the next, I usually wait 24 hours.
Use of some lighting technique is a big thing too. Similar to "shadowing", situate and steady your project so that while everything is still soft and wet with alcohol you can sight down the reflections in the fillet to aid your final smoothing. Using these techniques I'm able to get any fillet finished to a point where the only sanding required is a light scuff to prep for paint.

Dennis Saydak · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2021, 10:43:51 AM »

I agree completely with Wayne's advice. Blue Fill is the easiest to use fillet material I've found over the years.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2021, 11:55:50 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on May 03, 2021, 11:09:26 AM

Can the Blue Fill be used to glue ply doublers or motor mounts in place?

Or joining foam wing halves in place with a balsa root rib in each side?

How about gluing ply bellcrank mounts in place?

I'd like to know if this Blue Fill has gluing strength?

It is more than adequate for your application. For everyone else, probably not.

It has some bulk strength, and is reasonably strong as an adhesive, but it is not appropriate nor intended for gluing in small bond lines and has minimal penetration into the material of the joints. Make a 1/2 thick plate out of it, and you would have trouble breaking it with your bare hands. Not as strong as Epoxolite, but also much lighter. Don't use Epoxolite for these applications, either.

It is not "Blue Fill". It is Poly Fiber Super Fil:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/superfil.php?clickkey=12902

As the name suggests, it is intended as a *filler* for composite construction on full-scale aircraft. It doesn't work too well as a filler on balsa, because it is much harder than wood. But (Howard's problem aside) it does work very well for fillets on model airplanes, and is admirably light, easy to sand compared to the alternatives, and paint sticks to it well.

I am not sure what you mean about "balsa root ribs on foam wings". You can put that together with Ambroid for what little good it does you, but foam wings do not typically have "balsa root ribs" and count on only the surface joint, the overlying fiberglass and epoxy reinforcement strip, and the joint at the landing gear spar (if any).

For any solid structural connection, you *do not want filler* as a general rule, you want the material touching with a minimal bond line thickness. If you have gaps, and you absolutely must use a structural filler, then use something like milled fiberglass powder and a proper adhesive.

Brett

p.s. Note that the "you don't want filler" extends to liquid fillers, at least for maximum strength. Almost all consumer epoxies are heavily "filled" with inert resins or oils to get the mix ratio near 1:1 or 2:1. That significantly reduces the strength from the maximum possible. Fortunately, it doesn't matter, because for almost any purpose we might use it for, it is still far stronger than you need it to be.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2021, 12:00:44 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on May 02, 2021, 04:32:27 PM

Jimby says water. You have to get your stories straight. This is a shoddy conspiracy.

I am not sure how he gets away with that, it works *much easier* with alcohol. The only time I have had any issues with it is when I tried to do too much at once and it started to set up before I got done. Fortunately, it sands pretty well.

It does tend to separate in the cans, mine usually gets a blue or amber liquid at the top and I have to stir it up. That's because it sits in my closet (with a temp range of maybe 40 to 120 degrees) for years untouched.

Brett

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2021, 12:24:27 PM »

I just love Super Fil! I used to use Epoxolite for fillets and it was good too.

Here's a tip, Brett, to prevent the part B from separating so badly: Store the Part B upside down half of the time.

I posted a fillet how to on SH some years ago, and I'll re-post the photos here.

LAter - Bob Hunt

Howard Rush · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2021, 12:30:31 PM »

You can’t fool me with those Photoshopped pictures. The shadows are all wrong.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2021, 01:09:11 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on May 03, 2021, 12:30:31 PM

You can’t fool me with those Photoshopped pictures. The shadows are all wrong.

Sorry, Bob, I guess he is on to us! Should have know better than trying to slip one past the Argus eyes of Howard.

Brett

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2021, 03:30:04 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on May 03, 2021, 12:30:31 PM

You can’t fool me with those Photoshopped pictures. The shadows are all wrong.

Only if the fillets were on Doug Moon's ship...

wwwarbird · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2021, 09:02:40 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on May 03, 2021, 11:55:50 AM

It is more than adequate for your application. For everyone else, probably not.

Brett

wwwarbird · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2021, 09:15:10 PM »

Quote from: Bob Hunt on May 03, 2021, 12:24:27 PM

I just love Super Fil! I used to use Epoxolite for fillets and it was good too.

In my early days I used to use Sig's Epoxolite. My experience was that it worked well but you had to get the fillet shaped and finished perfectly during application because once cured it was like trying to sand granite. I'm thinking it was pretty heavy too.

Not being happy with Epoxolite I switched to 30 minute epoxy and micro balloons for many years. It worked pretty well, but I never really loved it. After discovering Super Fil about 10-12 years ago I can't imagine using anything else.

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2021, 06:09:34 AM »

Hi Wayne:

Yeah, almost forgot how difficult it was to sand Epoxolite after it had cured. You did have to put the fillets in almost perfectly. You could sand the fillets afterwards, but you had to be real careful not to gouge the sheeting on the wing/tail and/or the fuselage sides.

Attached are a couple more photos of fillets installed with Super Fil. Two are of my Second Wind Twin, and one is of the new "Easy Wind" (Thank you Robert Hunter) twin.

Later - Bob Hunt

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #26 on:** May 09, 2021, 06:36:20 PM »

The MSDS included on the Superfil page shows silica. Is it likely "fumed silica" or Cab-o-sil. If so, those who want to mix their own can buy Cab-o-sil and add it to epoxy. Aircraft Spruce also has Cab-o-sil, as does Amazon and others. The shelf life would then be your epoxy.

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #27 on:** May 10, 2021, 06:00:40 AM »

Fred,

It seems I'll never get away from wearing a mask. We love those sandables!

Health issues
Fumed silica is not listed as a carcinogen by OSHA, IARC, or NTP. Due to its fineness and thinness, fumed silica can easily become airborne, making it an inhalation risk, capable of causing irritation.

Steve

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #28 on:** May 10, 2021, 11:14:18 AM »

Lauri,

That's correct, once anything is encased in non sandable epoxy (concrete) it's forever as far as for our modeling purpose.
However, if the MDS said fumed silica is found in sandable Superfil the point is to use caution not to breath the fumed silicate during sanding. For that matter microballoons made from any of the materials you refer to should not be inhaled.

Steve

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #29 on:** May 10, 2021, 11:31:58 AM »

Next time around I plan to try the tried and proven Superfil, no matter how near perfect the epoxy fillets go down there is always a small irregularity or imperfection you end up having to live with.

Steve

Stuntflyn · « **Reply #30 on:** May 10, 2021, 04:12:45 PM »

I have used epoxy, MB and denatured alcohol in the past without ill effect, but I have since learned I should not use denatured alcohol. Does anyone know the specific reason? Does it leave some contaminants or change the properties of epoxy (or superfil this case ).

Also, is any particular percentage of alcohol preferred ? (91% vs 70%, 60% ) etc.

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #31 on:** May 10, 2021, 04:47:21 PM »

Quote from: Steve Dwyer on May 10, 2021, 11:14:18 AM

Lauri,

That's correct, once anything is encased in non sandable epoxy (concrete) it's forever as far as for our modeling purpose.
However, if the MDS said fumed silica is found in sandable Superfil the point is to use caution not to breath the fumed silicate during sanding. For that matter microballoons made from any of the materials you refer to should not be inhaled.

Steve

Quote from: Lauri Malila on May 10, 2021, 11:23:48 AM

You’re right, Steve. But the colloidal silica is propable the least harmfull ingredient in the mix. It’s totally inert. And also widely used in food industry. But of course, no dust should be inhaled.
I was merely correcting Fred’s comment about making your own putty from silica & epoxy.

I don't mind being corrected, but I am not sure that I understand. It seems that SuperFil is basically epoxy and fumed silica or Cabosil. I have used Cabosil and epoxy some years back and it was quite light and sandable, IF the mixture was made light with enough Cabosil. It then seems similar to SuperFil, and neither are good to breath when sanded.

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #32 on:** May 10, 2021, 05:05:02 PM »

Not sure what catergory Superfil falls into as a filler, but if it has adhesion qualities I'd place it in the epoxy box. It appears most adhesives don't sand well and fillers come off nicely.

When shaping your fillets using epoxy with micro balloons try using Naphtha You will have keep wetting your finger as it dries quickly. Naphtha can be bought at any place that sells paint thinners (HD and Lowes). You can use Naphtha to clean epoxy fingerprints from the painted control surfaces when installing hinges and the Butyrate canopy if epoxy finds its way into to it also.

Steve

Warren Wagner · « **Reply #33 on:** May 11, 2021, 09:06:49 AM »

Having tried everything else, Superfil is still my favorite. One of the main criteria for me, is the
easy of sanding. It "powders" beautifly. When first exposed to the product, I made a test sample
to get familiar with its sanding characteristics.

This photo shows the results of that test, and it sanded so beautifully, that I left the powder on
the sample to remind me of just how nicely it did sand.

Photo says it all.

Cheers...and stay safe.

Warren Wagner

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #34 on:** May 11, 2021, 04:47:41 PM »

Warren,

Do you recommend applying a bead of epoxy in the base of the joint between the fuse and the wing before completing the fillet with Superfil for strength or is this overkill?

Steve

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #35 on:** May 11, 2021, 07:10:13 PM »

Quote from: Steve Dwyer on May 11, 2021, 04:47:41 PM

Warren,

Do you recommend applying a bead of epoxy in the base of the joint between the fuse and the wing before completing the fillet with Superfil for strength or is this overkill?

Steve

Epoxy and glass cloth on the INSIDE.

Ken

wwwarbird · « **Reply #36 on:** May 12, 2021, 09:12:45 PM »

So Howard, have you given it another shot?

Steve Dwyer · « **Reply #37 on:** May 13, 2021, 06:06:29 AM »

Here's another option from the furniture industry, not sure of it's weight but it is available in smaller more affordable amounts.

Steve

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #38 on:** May 13, 2021, 07:35:04 AM »

I notice the label uses the term "Structural" and I would take that as it being largely epoxy with some filler and tinted to look like wood and add some strength to a joint. from the label photo it looks a lot like SIG Epoxylite fillet material. I may have that name wrong, but it was about the only SIG product that I ever used that I didn't like. It dried very hard and didn't sand well.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #39 on:** May 13, 2021, 11:38:33 AM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on May 02, 2021, 03:54:03 PM

SuperFil is sands very easily.

I am not sure what problem Howard is having, but the one consequential downside I have found is that you have to use alcohol as a lubricant instead of water.

Brett

Every time I use alcohol as a lubricant when I'm building stuff looks good when I'm handling it, but the next morning it's all crooked and my head hurts.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #40 on:** May 13, 2021, 11:45:17 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on May 13, 2021, 10:38:56 AM

Blue is not my favorite color and no one will ever convince me to use Blue filler.

No, I don't go Blue because I'm stubborn, it's because I've used micro-balloons forever.

Are Micro-balloons superior? You already have Epoxy and know how to use Epoxy. And the mix doesn't have to be perfect.

Look, Micro-balloons mixed with Epoxy can be used for MANY uses depending on the mix. Let's start with just gluing two pieces of wood together, Hey! it works. Strong bonding properties, like gluing motor mounts.

Can you use the Blue stuff as a glue? Gee. I think I'll use the Blue stuff to glue my motor mounts, see how this works out for you?

I just love posting photos of my finished models and I love boasting about my "Builds." Yes, I contribute to the Forum with photos, text and explain how I do what I do. Contributing to the Forum is a good thing, even if you're a polished builder or not, please contribute.

All my models are there in Builds, B&W, actually living color.

Go ahead, buy the Blue stuff, I won't, just like I won't get the Vaccine and I haven't worn a mask yet.

Yes, I designed these models and built them from scratch. I'm a builder.

I also used absolutely NO Blue filler on any of these models. Just Micro-balloons!

I've used Epoxy and Micro-balloons long before the Earth was formed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_microsphere

JUST BUY them FROM SIG, mix with Epoxy, kinda dry, and you'll see the stuff sands like balsa. The only difference is, it's strong! The joint isn't just filled, it's glued with strength.

There's no Blue filler in any of these models. Will the Blue eventually disappear as the use of dope is now disappearing more and more? That's up to you.

Look Ma!, No Blue fillers.

Did you really use Micro-balloons to glue in your motor mounts?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #41 on:** May 13, 2021, 11:46:55 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on May 13, 2021, 08:08:01 AM

Has anyone tried this stuff? I've used it for filling dings and stuff but never tried a fillet. You mix it with water, it's wood color and it sands real nice. Don't know about weight.

DO NOT use this for fillets. It's OK for a very small fill areas if you can't get anything else., but it just crumbles in large blocks.

Brett

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #42 on:** May 13, 2021, 11:49:52 AM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on May 13, 2021, 11:38:33 AM

Every time I use alcohol as a lubricant when I'm building stuff looks good when I'm handling it, but the next morning it's all crooked and my head hurts.

It all depends on where you put the alcohol.

Ken

Brett Buck · « **Reply #43 on:** May 13, 2021, 11:51:26 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on May 13, 2021, 10:38:56 AM

Are Micro-balloons superior?

No.

Quote

I just love posting photos of my finished models and I love boasting about my "Builds."

Oh really? We hadn't noticed...

Every village needs one.

Brett

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #44 on:** May 14, 2021, 06:46:31 AM »

Sigh... Yet another thread that started out to be useful and then turned into a "mine is better than yours" schoolyard fight.

Guys: Use whatever materials you find to work best for YOU. I have used so many different materials over the years and have found that some work for others where they would not work for me. And, some that work great for me have not worked so well for others. Modeling is a personal thing, and no one should belittle what produces obvious good results for someone. Try and keep, or try and discard.

I've been building model airplanes for more than 65 years, and during that time I've tried hundreds of different materials. Many of them were staples for years, and then something new - and to my way of thinking, better - comes along and replaces them in many cases. Such was the case for ME in respect to Super Fil. I have found it superior to Epoxolite (think microballoons and epoxy) and all other fillet materials that I have tried. Does that mean everyone will feel that way? Obviously not. What is important here is that we all report on what works well for US in hopes that it might help others. If you read about something here that works well for someone, and then try it and find it doesn't suit your needs, then don't use it anymore. Please, however, don't belittle those of us who find that it is just what we were looking for to do a particular job.

Play nice... - Bob Hunt

Jerry Rauch · « **Reply #45 on:** May 14, 2021, 07:57:48 AM »

Another discussion that goes south...really sad...why? ...hardly worth it to come on this site anymore.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #46 on:** May 14, 2021, 09:44:53 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Rauch on May 14, 2021, 07:57:48 AM

Another discussion that goes south...really sad...why? ...hardly worth it to come on this site anymore.

No, keep looking in Jerry. Still lots of good information here from experienced people with a verifiable background and real names . People whose names you can find in the entry lists of contests and in magazine articles and in great web sites, and you can have some confidence that they know what they are talking about and they have a proven track record to stand behind it. And they can still go out to the flying field and get the job done!! it's easy to separate the wheat from the chaff once you have looked around a bit.
And all these guys were doing was trying to help Howard figure out his problem, then one person decided to prove the old saying, "Better to be silent and thought a fool, then to open you your mouth and remove all doubt!"
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

wwwarbird · « **Reply #47 on:** May 14, 2021, 09:42:05 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on May 14, 2021, 10:01:31 AM

This guy started it as he always does.

And no one dares come forward to admit it.

Which is why this crap keeps on going for years and years.

Sparky! WHAT'S IT GONNA TAKE???!!!

Chris Wilson · « **Reply #48 on:** May 16, 2021, 04:47:52 AM »

Agreed, this thread needs moderation.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #49 on:** May 16, 2021, 08:16:44 PM »

Quote from: Chris Wilson on May 16, 2021, 04:47:52 AM

Agreed, this thread needs moderation.

It was a very good, informative and productive thread until a certain someone decided to chime in with his usual self-centered idiocy. As a result it's now soured, another of countless threads on this forum ruined by the same individual.

Chris Wilson · « **Reply #50 on:** May 17, 2021, 12:05:32 AM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on May 13, 2021, 11:51:26 AM

Every village needs one.

Brett

Not this village.

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #51 on:** May 17, 2021, 01:55:45 AM »

I think the point has been made. So let's not all have a whack!

For the novice, me, Super Fil is idiot proof. Weigh each part and you are off and running.

I have tried Micro Balloons and epoxy but it seems there is an optimum amount of balloons to epoxy and I haven't found where that is. So, if someone has a formula of, "X", millilitres of mixed epoxy to, "Y", grams of Micro Balloons?

Until then, Super Fil for me.

Craig

Avaiojet · « **Reply #52 on:** May 17, 2021, 09:03:05 AM »

Quote from: Craig Beswick on May 17, 2021, 01:55:45 AM

I think the point has been made. So let's not all have a whack!

For the novice, me, Super Fil is idiot proof. Weigh each part and you are off and running.

I have tried Micro Balloons and epoxy but it seems there is an optimum amount of balloons to epoxy and I haven't found where that is. So, if someone has a formula of, "X", millilitres of mixed epoxy to, "Y", grams of Micro Balloons?

Until then, Super Fil for me.

Craig

Craig,

You could say, 6 one half dozen of another? But I won't. And "name calling" for whatever the reason, is totally unnecessary. They just don't want me saying anything! Period!

24 HOURS then go on to the next one!! That alone is a reason, for me anyway, to use Micro-balloons. Takes me minutes to do fillets and they DRY IN MINUTES!! 5 actually because I use 5 minute Epoxy!

Is it a punishable crime to switch from Blue to white or even suggest it?

What is the hobby coming to?

These fillets were done in minutes and needed no sanding to shape them. I just drag a finger, generally my middle finger. A light scuff and you're done, no waiting 24 hours before you go onto the next fillet.

"I have tried Micro Balloons and epoxy but it seems there is an optimum amount of balloons to epoxy and I haven't found where that is. So, if someone has a formula of, "X", millilitres of mixed epoxy to, "Y", grams of Micro Balloons?"

I've explained how I mix this stuff many times with photos in my Builds. For the GBR-3 canopy I mixed a tad of black paint and finished the canopy in one shot, minutes, black outline and all. No sanding, DONE!!

I'm sold on Micro-balloons for a list of reasons.

Inexpensive!
Small container!
You already have Epoxy!
Easy to mix and YOU control the consistency!
Light as a feather!
Ultra fast drying time! 5 MINUTES!
Done correctly, requires no shaping or tools or sanding!
Epoxy is a strong glue, so you are "gluing" the area not just filling the area!
You don't need heat to dry it!
Heat will actually loosen epoxy to a liquid if a repair is needed! (Heat to a liquid, remove with a rag by wiping.)
It's not Blue!

Craig Beswick · « **Reply #53 on:** May 17, 2021, 04:46:59 PM »

Charles,
I didn't want the post to degenerate to a stage where everyone else would end up being guilty of what was being complained about in the first instance!

As you well know I abhor bullying and have voiced this and stood up for you in the past. I was trying to get the thread back on track. So let's do that?

It was because of your posts I used Micro Ballons in the first place. But, there is a point where if you do not add enough balloons to the epoxy it would not sand at all! Then, if you add too much it cracks. Mixed as per instructions Super fil does not do this. As I said, for me, Super Fil is easier.

I will re read your Gee Bee 3 Thread and search for the formula to mix the balloons to epoxy. It would be great to to sand off in less than 30 minutes, agreed.
Craig

Avaiojet · « **Reply #54 on:** May 17, 2021, 05:23:13 PM »

Quote from: Craig Beswick on May 17, 2021, 04:46:59 PM

Charles,
I didn't want the post to degenerate to a stage where everyone else would end up being guilty of what was being complained about in the first instance!

As you well know I abhor bullying and have voiced this and stood up for you in the past. I was trying to get the thread back on track. So let's do that?

It was because of your posts I used Micro Ballons in the first place. But, there is a point where if you do not add enough balloons to the epoxy it would not sand at all! Then, if you add too much it cracks. Mixed as per instructions Super fil does not do this. As I said, for me, Super Fil is easier.

I will re read your Gee Bee 3 Thread and search for the formula to mix the balloons to epoxy. It would be great to to sand off in less than 30 minutes, agreed.
Craig

Craig,

I use two, cut down, cups. One for the Epoxy and the other for the hardener.

If you go to my builds, you will see I add a tad of yellow paint. I do this only so I don't over mix and lose time which is needed for the application. I use 5 minute Epoxy so I must be quick.

It's kinda like mixing grout, too dry is not good and to wet is not good.

Like cake frosting. God I love white on white cake.

I've never experienced cracking in all the years I've used this stuff, but I only purchase Epoxy provided by Model suppliers, never Ace, Home Depot or Lowe's.

Yes, once you get the hang of this medium and it's application, you can do a model in an hour.

I no longer use tape either.

I don't have the patients others have, one of the reason my building isn't polished as to the fit of each piece of wood.

Tasks have to be quick, at least for me.

The Gee Bee Z I built, there's a photo someplace where I used Micro-balloons mixed with Epoxy, kinda wet and kinda dry, used inside the fiberglass wheel pants as glue.

It's all I ever used. Mixed dry, but wet enough to stick, it goes on like joint compound and sands like balsa.

It's all over my Gee Bee Z. Take a look.

I never apply this over naked wood. Always a few coats of clear Dope or Deft Wood Sealer. I always scratch and clean the area.

I'm having better results applying silk over sheeted areas using the Deft. Others use it also.

CB

RC Storick · « **Reply #55 on:** May 17, 2021, 08:55:04 PM »

Use Super-fil for what it is supposed to be used for Fillets (Not glue) It is by far the best it beats epoxy and micro balloons and epoxolite and spackle and the rest. The only thing lighter and stronger is wood fillets. Period end of discussion!

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #56 on:** May 19, 2021, 04:40:39 PM »

Quote from: RC Storick on May 17, 2021, 08:55:04 PM

The only thing lighter and stronger is wood fillets

I use BIG fillets made from wood but finding the light mushy stuff anymore is impossible. I have tried 5min Epoxy but it never seems to dry 100% Superfill is so forgiving and it sands so smooth.

Ken

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #57 on:** May 23, 2021, 08:47:53 AM »

I like the SuperFil for all the reasons listed above. My only issue is I usually mix more than I can work or need before it starts getting stiff and end up throwing quite a bit away.. oh well. I’m having an issue with the factory paint on one of my Chevy Equinox’s coming off and am getting a little rust spot. I’m thinking I will use SuperFill to patch it and touch up the paint...gotta be better than Bondo.

Dave

wwwarbird · « **Reply #58 on:** May 24, 2021, 07:54:33 PM »

Howard, any more thoughts?

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #59 on:** August 10, 2022, 10:45:03 AM »

So, Howard, what WERE you using for fillets before the blue stuff disturbed your calm?

(I know you are busy at the Worlds, but since this thread was old already, there is no....rush.)

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #60 on:** August 10, 2022, 06:57:45 PM »

Quote from: RC Storick on May 17, 2021, 08:55:04 PM

Use Super-fil for what it is supposed to be used for Fillets (Not glue) It is by far the best it beats epoxy and micro balloons and epoxolite and spackle and the rest. The only thing lighter and stronger is wood fillets. Period end of discussion!

Right on Robert. I agree 100% and use it exclusively.

Jerry