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General control line discussion => AS TIME GOES BYE => Topic started by: Matt Colan on May 23, 2010, 07:54:28 PM
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Now that I have another motor (PA 51), I've been thinking of what to build for it. Obviously I would build it after the Cobra was finished. I've looked at some designs and have narrowed my choice of plane to two planes.
Randy Smith's Intrepid XL
Randy Smith's Tempest II
Randy offers both as a kit, so I would get one of them, but am still thinking.
Oh the choices of today's designs for 1 engine...
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If I had a PA51 laying around, Randy Smiths original Vector (not the Vector 40) would be near the top of my list. The Shrike might be a close second. The other planes you mention can be pulled by the 51 just fine too if kept reasonably light I would think and be very competitive.
Now that I reflect on it, I had a tired old original case (not light case) PA40 ON A HEADER MUFFLER in a Staris at 67 OUNCES, and flew it at Huntersville elevations just fine. Randy's motors are deceptively powerful. Assuming you will run it on a pipe, and not a muffler, you could probably pull a patternmaster fine with the 51! Pick something that trips your trigger and go for it. Just do your best to keep it light and straight, just like you would anything else, and you should be fine.
Randy has a new'ish plane called the "Classic" that I've been eye balling, and it looks like it might be a good choice for the 51 too. Not sure if anyone has built one yet, but I'm sure it fly's as good as any of his other designs, and sports a neat classic look.
Randy can have foam cut for anything you want, and with a set of plans handy, you can just cut the rest yourself if he doesn't kit it.
Half the fun is dreaming of your next build. Don't feel obligated to stick to your first choice. Take your time, enjoy the day dreaming. H^^
EricV
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Yea, I now have a new RO-Jett .61 sitting on the bench with nothing to do. I've been burning up the drafting table this week.
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Matt,
If you happened to get a PA .51 from Nat, It's the one I sold to him back in April of 05 before I moved from Manassas to Charlottesville, VA. It is a very good engine, I put about 350 flights on it.
Jim Pollock H^^
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Matt,
If you happened to get a PA .51 from Nat, It's the one I sold to him back in April of 05 before I moved from Manassas to Charlottesville, VA. It is a very good engine, I put about 350 flights on it.
Jim Pollock H^^
No we got the PA 51 from Rick Campbell. After getting only 14 flights on the Oriental Plus, and really only 3 with the motor running just perfect, I am soooooo spoiled over the piped engine. I hurt the motor during the crash, so I had to send it to the PA doctor to get it fixed.
Flew the Ares yesterday, and that little OS 35 has a lot of quirks, and the PA has none as far as I can tell...
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If I had a PA51 laying around, Randy Smiths original Vector (not the Vector 40) would be near the top of my list. The Shrike might be a close second. The other planes you mention can be pulled by the 51 just fine too if kept reasonably light I would think and be very competitive.
Now that I reflect on it, I had a tired old original case (not light case) PA40 ON A HEADER MUFFLER in a Staris at 67 OUNCES, and flew it at Huntersville elevations just fine. Randy's motors are deceptively powerful. Assuming you will run it on a pipe, and not a muffler, you could probably pull a patternmaster fine with the 51! Pick something that trips your trigger and go for it. Just do your best to keep it light and straight, just like you would anything else, and you should be fine.
Randy has a new'ish plane called the "Classic" that I've been eye balling, and it looks like it might be a good choice for the 51 too. Not sure if anyone has built one yet, but I'm sure it fly's as good as any of his other designs, and sports a neat classic look.
Randy can have foam cut for anything you want, and with a set of plans handy, you can just cut the rest yourself if he doesn't kit it.
Half the fun is dreaming of your next build. Don't feel obligated to stick to your first choice. Take your time, enjoy the day dreaming. H^^
EricV
I would think any big airplane can be pulled by the PA 51 effectively. I saw a SFVM video with Bob Hunt interviewing Frank McMillan, and he had a piped 40 in a 780 sq inch caudron. Obviously more power is better.
Other plane's I have an eye on, Randy's Rapier, but that may be a bit big. Also the Classic looks very good. And there's also the Evolution, and the Astra, and a Shrike and...well I guess you get the picture.
This motor may even be a good candidate to build USA-1 with an SV-11 wing in it...
Day dreaming is great!
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The PA .51 pulled my 64 Ounce Intrepid X/L just fine. I just decided to join the rest of the world and bought me a PA.61 and pipe for it. All I need to do now is finish repairing my Intrepid X/L from its unfortunate encounter with the ground at the '04 Nats. All I really need to do is re-hook the rudder offset device put the Pipe hold-down setup back into it remount the new engine and pipe and Landing Gear. It should be a killer flyer then! Just gotta "Get er done!"
Jim Pollock, Laziest flyer on earth.....ugh!
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Sure, like I said, it'll pull anything, even a Sweeper with ease probably! But... there's still some things you might like to consider taking advantage of. (and I must confess, most of this is stuff Randy himself has pointed out to me)
Now, before you read on, small is relative, and the 51 is kinda a tweener size, so the "small" advantage isn't probably as great as a PA40... but it's still there, just incremental: Prop clearance with a 51 is probably going to be better than a 65-75, so you can do lower slung planes, smaller landing gear is lighter, smaller prop also means the prop is lighter, and you might want to use the smaller, lighter 1 3/4" spinner, and since it will probably have a smaller fuel tank so that saves weight, and smaller lighter tuned pipe, etc,. It all adds up, and you can probably shave more than a few ounces off the entire plane just by downsizing everything associated with the power package.
So, even though it will haul almost anything you want fine, I just think it would be worth fully exploring your options to get the most bang for your buck performance wise. I would imagine you could get an original Vector with a PA51 for instance easily into the sub 58 ounce range, which would be a killer combo... 8)
EricV
I would think any big airplane can be pulled by the PA 51 effectively. I saw a SFVM video with Bob Hunt interviewing Frank McMillan, and he had a piped 40 in a 780 sq inch caudron. Obviously more power is better.
Other plane's I have an eye on, Randy's Rapier, but that may be a bit big. Also the Classic looks very good. And there's also the Evolution, and the Astra, and a Shrike and...well I guess you get the picture.
This motor may even be a good candidate to build USA-1 with an SV-11 wing in it...
Day dreaming is great!
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Its good to be thinking ahead #^
I try to think and plan three airplanes ahead of wherever I'm at. Often, I alternate between a serious stunt job and a "fun" plane like a profile or classic job. Right now I'm finishing a Dreadnought, then I intend to build a Genesis 35, then a Rapier for my PA-51, and then a top sekrit research and development ship. While building one plane, I try to gather the raw materials and engine, etc for the next model. It never ends! n~
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Its good to be thinking ahead #^
I try to think and plan three airplanes ahead of wherever I'm at. Often, I alternate between a serious stunt job and a "fun" plane like a profile or classic job. Right now I'm finishing a Dreadnought, then I intend to build a Genesis 35, then a Rapier for my PA-51, and then a top sekrit research and development ship. While building one plane, I try to gather the raw materials and engine, etc for the next model. It never ends! n~
I do the same thing, that way I kind of have something to look foward to. Only difference is, I use the motors that grandpa has already baught the motors and he buys the paint etc. The only time I have bought anything was a Smoothie ARC, and a PA 40UL.
I really really like the look of the Rapier...
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After seeing Derek Barry's Dreadnought, I've decided to do the Tempest for the PA 51. The only reason I would do the Tempest rather than the Dreadnought is it looks more aggressive and it doesn't have that tall canopy, it's nice and low slung.
Now to start saving up for it, and thinking of paint schemes #^
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Matt, you had better take special care of Grandpa. My Grandpa was a fisherman, or that is what he said. He would set up four or five lines on the bank of the lake and then sit down and lay back against the tree. I had the job of telling him if a bobber disappeared. He thought my model planes were a waste of money. Dad said model planes kept me home so he knew where I was at. So take care of Grandpa as he is the only one you will have. R%%%% H^^
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Here is a paint scheme I came up with. Sadly the skin like color that is the base color is supposed to be a tan color because I didn't have a tan sharpie, just a dark brown one so I had to do the next best thing.
I'm definitely going to be coming up with more schemes than this one though y1
Edit: This is actually a side view to a Dreadnought, but since it is a similar airplane, I used that as a basis for this scheme...
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Here is a paint scheme I came up with. Sadly the skin like color that is the base color is supposed to be a tan color because I didn't have a tan sharpie, just a dark brown one so I had to do the next best thing.
I'm definitely going to be coming up with more schemes than this one though
Edit: This is actually a side view to a Dreadnought, but since it is a similar airplane, I used that as a basis for this scheme...
I like it -- you have a good eye for color schemes. You could use that same "shape" with a lot of different colors, I think.
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I like it -- you have a good eye for color schemes. You could use that same "shape" with a lot of different colors, I think.
Thanks Tim. There are also plenty of other shapes and color designs I could think up right now as I sit here...
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Matt,
Just pick a successful design and rework it to your liking.
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That's been my undoing. It's probably better just to pick a successful design.
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Hmmm,
Like maybe the original stock plans Impact Howard???? Oh, and use a Foam wing in it too, that makes it really STOCK!
Jim Pollock H^^
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>>That's been my undoing.<<
Yea, all those high Nats finishes and local contest wins must be killing you. ;D
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Using a Hot Rock handle against recommendations did in the first one. Now people tell me that I'd be better off with flaps that weren't so big or stiff, but that's how the Jive Combat Team rolls.
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I think I'd listen to Paul. Listening to The Dirt can get you into trouble.
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Well I've been thinking and thinking and thinking about the Tempest. I was thumbing through RSM's website and found they are going to be offering the Thunder Gazer as a kit starting the day after independence day. I've already talked with Dave Fitz through email and he says a PA 51 would be more than enough power for a Thunder Gazer. I compared prices and the Thunder Gazer is about 80 dollars cheaper. With me on a very fixed income, and the proven contest record of the Thunder Gazer (not that the Tempest is a bad airplane by any means), I've decided to get a Thunder Gazer kit when it comes out!!!
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With your skills and your Grandpa's, why not build from scratch. Then you can pick your wood. Also making templates allows you to make spare parts when needed. I see you did good at Brodaks. H^^
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Matt, been watching your progress. You're too far along in your building, AND your contest progress,(second place Advanced Brodak's) for any kit. Build from scratch brother!!
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Matt,
Don't listen to them. The ThunderChicken is a great plane. I'm sure Eric will do a bang up job on the kit. Go for it.
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Matt,
Don't listen to them. The ThunderChicken is a great plane. I'm sure Eric will do a bang up job on the kit. Go for it.
I will. I don't quite feel like my skills at building have progressed enough to the point where I can build from scratch. I'm thinking maybe after the Thundergazer, I would build something from scratch.
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Matt,
Don't listen to them. The ThunderChicken is a great plane. I'm sure Eric will do a bang up job on the kit. Go for it.
Randy you should be building from kits. Just joking. Tell Matt to roll how he wants. While I still think he would be better off with a set of ThunderChicken plans, (once you get that first scratch build under your belt) not everybody feels comfortable moving at the same rate.
That said, a lot of cats seem to forget that your first scratch build does not have to be a Paul Walker B17! Even a very simple, but well chosen scratch build, like a Barnstormer, will pretty much give you most of what you need to build a lot of typical fuselage jobs.
In addition, I just happen to have the full photo build sequence of Windy’s own Barnstormer. He can send somebody like Matt just about anything he needs to build it. If it is one consistent thing that I have noticed in my many years of modeling, is how guys always seem to state how easy scratch building is compare to kits, ONCE YOU DO IT. That is the key, you only have to do it once, and you always seem to wish you’d done it sooner.
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Milt,
yea, I've been build stuff from others plans and my own sketches for a very, very long time. I build the occasional kit (like Walter Umland's superb units) but mostly build from scratch. With planes like the Ringmaster Deluxe, I sort of sketched it up then made it up as I went along. Which is why now that it may be kitted, I'm having to actually draw plans (Yikes!).
My point was just to have Matt do what he was comfortable with. I'm sure he'll be hacking balsa soon enough. Give the guy a chance, he's still in high school. ;D
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Milt,
yea, I've been build stuff from others plans and my own sketches for a very, very long time. I build the occasional kit (like Walter Umland's superb units) but mostly build from scratch. With planes like the Ringmaster Deluxe, I sort of sketched it up then made it up as I went along. Which is why now that it may be kitted, I'm having to actually draw plans (Yikes!).
My point was just to have Matt do what he was comfortable with. I'm sure he'll be hacking balsa soon enough. Give the guy a chance, he's still in high school. ;D
Yep I'm in high school, soon to be a Junior, and has been competing since 2007, and I just took 2nd in advanced at Brodak's. And also with the quality of kits today, it seems to me to be the way to go, until I actually feel like I can build on my own and not make mistakes (if there's something I'm not sure how to do, grandpa will show me, then I'll do it myself with him watching over me).
Edit: I'll be hacking balsa later today on my Cobra
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>>... until I actually feel like I can build on my own and not make mistakes ...<<
Well, that will never happen. Trust me. It's all in how you recover...
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Exactly as Randy says,,
In the body shop industry, there is a saying,
" the difference between a professional painter and an amateur, is that the professional knows how to fix his screw-ups!"
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Mark,
This goes with Windy Urtnowski's old saying: "No finish is every completed; only abandoned.
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Matt,
I started doing my own thing when I was in grammar school. You have a big advantage with all of grandpa's help. From what we have seen your building skills are advancing rapidly. The Thunder Chicken is a great airplane and will be great for you. But after that, it is time for you to do your own thing.
Scratch building is not for everyone, but you should really go for it. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. Anyone who does not make mistakes is a liar.
The reward for doing your own thing is an immense feeling of accomplishment.
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Another change in airplane. Eric Viglione is sending me a Trivial Pursuit kit for FREE, so now this would be the plane I would build, obviously since I'm getting it for free. Thanks Eric, and hopefully I can build this plane for next year's Nationals.
Matt,
I started doing my own thing when I was in grammar school. You have a big advantage with all of grandpa's help. From what we have seen your building skills are advancing rapidly. The Thunder Chicken is a great airplane and will be great for you. But after that, it is time for you to do your own thing.
Scratch building is not for everyone, but you should really go for it. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. Anyone who does not make mistakes is a liar.
The reward for doing your own thing is an immense feeling of accomplishment.
Tom, I'm feeling like maybe after the Cobra and Trivial Pursuit, I will start doing my own thing. I'm sure you've seen the sketches I've posted, so I could use one of those profiles, and just put Oriental Plus, Trivial Pursuit, or SV numbers in it and change the profile. The future is yet unseen.
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Matt, you are so lucky to have a family that supports you in your endeavers. Just hope as you discover girls you find one that likes model airplanes. Also don't for get to get a good education. Don't forget your modeling family here on the forum. H^^
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Matt, you are so lucky to have a family that supports you in your endeavers. Just hope as you discover girls you find one that likes model airplanes. Also don't for get to get a good education. Don't forget your modeling family here on the forum. H^^
Oh I've discovered girls ;D They just don't find model airplane cool (at least the ones I hang out with). I'm hoping to stick with this hobby/sport as long as possible, with maybe a stint of not flying because of college maybe.
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Oh I've discovered girls ;D They just don't find model airplane cool (at least the ones I hang out with). I'm hoping to stick with this hobby/sport as long as possible, with maybe a stint of not flying because of college maybe.
HI Matt,
Youaer selling yourself short, but the Trivial Pursuit will be a great plane for you! (Eric is a great guy, but don't tell him I said that! LOL!!)
As for taking time off in college, I didn't. I was even in college with a football scholarship that ate up ALL my time, but I did find time to go flying on a semi regular basis. More than I get to do now! Oh, yeah, I was even married after my Soph year. Married, football, classes, and C/L models! Even got my Masters. You will find that you will learn to manage your time a WHOLE lot better! (if not, you won't have to worry about going to classes anymore! LOL!!)
BTW: I scratch built (or plans built as Ron Burn says!) a Warburton Tony on a table in the basement of the house my Wife and I were renting an apartment in (three rooms! LL~). The two little old ladies that owned the house and lived downstairs gave the me run of the basement! But I did have to do all the doping outside. ;D
You CAN do what you want to do.
Bill
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HI Matt,
Youaer selling yourself short, but the Trivial Pursuit will be a great plane for you! (Eric is a great guy, but don't tell him I said that! LOL!!)
As for taking time off in college, I didn't. I was even in college with a football scholarship that ate up ALL my time, but I did find time to go flying on a semi regular basis. More than I get to do now! Oh, yeah, I was even married after my Soph year. Married, football, classes, and C/L models! Even got my Masters. You will find that you will learn to manage your time a WHOLE lot better! (if not, you won't have to worry about going to classes anymore! LOL!!)
BTW: I scratch built (or plans built as Ron Burn says!) a Warburton Tony on a table in the basement of the house my Wife and I were renting an apartment in (three rooms! LL~). The two little old ladies that owned the house and lived downstairs gave the me run of the basement! But I did have to do all the doping outside. ;D
You CAN do what you want to do.
Bill
I'm sure I could Bill! I actually started college today, Intro to College Studies, where they are supposed to teach time management skills, stress management etc. etc. Maybe after that, I would definitely see how I could find time for planes (I really would want to find time, I love flying this stuff). But this is 2 years down the road, after I graduate highschool, so I don't exactly have to worry about that yet...
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I got the kit today in the mail!!! Now I can get started on this thing soon. I can't wait to see this fly, the profile is really nice in my opinion, that scoop for the pipe is just cool!
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Well, Matt I would have liked to see you build a Tempest but you can't turn down a free plane. Eric is one hell of a guy! ;D
The guys are right about scratch building, you obviously have the skillz to do one if you wish. The kit may go a little faster, and that is not a bad thing if you want to have it done by next years Nats. Maybe you can build a Tempest from scratch after you finish the TP. I know I sound like a spokesman for Randy's stuff but it has worked very well for me over the years. Good luck and keep at it.!
P.S. I don't think that any of the girls really like the planes......that being said, if you find one that pretends to like them try and keep her! ;)
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Derek,
Yea, I doubt my wife cares much one way or the other. She usually says she like be doing it because I stay out of trouble. She loves to go to contests because she can sit in the sun (if it's out) or in the car and read. She takes the few minutes to watch me fly, then goes back to her book or magazine or one project or another.
And Matt, eventually, you can take what you've learned from building kits and scratch built planes and just draw up and build you're own. That can be pretty fun, too.
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My wife likes the smell of dope, and she likes to go to contests with me. At combat contests she yells at people and gets into fights. At stunt contests she sits in the car and reads. She used to look up when I flew, but I don't think she does anymore.
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P.S. I don't think that any of the girls really like the planes......that being said, if you find one that pretends to like them try and keep her! ;)
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I know of one that likes the planes. I keep telling Melvin he has a keeper. I don't think she has missed a NATS since 1987 when it was my sons last year as a Junior. She is also one of the movers in TOPCLASS getting a new field, well both of them. H^^
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My wife Lisa is happy I have this hobby, like other wives, she prefers it to me being out at bars at night, or sitting in front of the TV.
Because of the technical and high pressure aspect of what I do for a living, I do need to blow off some steam. Flying C/L and even the pressure of competition is a totally different kind of pressure than work, and a welcome one. At work I'm meeting someone else's goals, in competition, I set my own.
I suppose I could be building ships in bottles instead of stunters, but I don't think the beneficial effect would be even close to the same. When I finished a ship in a bottle, I guess it would go on a shelf. When I finish a work session on a stunter, I get to dream about how I will paint it, how it will fly, etc. Then when I do get to fly it, I know I've accomplished something with my own two hands and brought it to life. How cool is that?
As far as kit's go, I have built both from scratch and kits. I still build kits, and find that even if I throw away some substandard stuff like if I don't like the pushrod etc., that the wood selection and laser cutting is still better and more convenient than trying to hunt down good wood and hand cut it myself.
On the other hand, building from scratch or plans can sometimes actually go a little faster for me, because I'm less constrained by the manufacturers step by step stuff, and I can just build it the way I see fit. Somehow, that goes faster for me than following someone else's idea of how to build, and worrying about missing one of their steps.
Either way, there is no wrong way to have fun!
Thanks for the kind words, enjoy the kit Matt,
EricV