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General control line discussion => AS TIME GOES BYE => Topic started by: Jim Pollock on March 26, 2010, 01:26:20 PM

Title: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on March 26, 2010, 01:26:20 PM
Of the United States Model Airplane flyers lets try to list all that have caught lightning in a bottle and have been dominant during various previous stages.

Here are the ones I think have done so:

 Lightning in a bottle finders:

#1  Davey Slagle,  1946,47,48
#2  Lew Andrews, Unknown what years
#3  George M. Aldrich 1954, 1957
#4  Bob Palmer 1955, 1959
#5  Bill Werwage 1958, 1963, 1972, 1980, 2004
#6  Les McDonald 1978, 1980, 1982
#7  Paul Walker 1983 - present
#8  Jim Cassel 1977, 1979, 1981,1985
#9  Ted Fancher 1972, 1978, 1995, 2000

P.S.  There are many single time US Nats winners, but the only one who could take up the handle and be a great threat to win again immediately is Bart Kaplinski.

In my defense this was thought up on the spur of the moment, there could be a couple others that have caught lightning in a bottle!

Jim Pollock   :o
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Howard Rush on March 26, 2010, 08:34:43 PM
Bob Gieseke, too, for stunt

Riley Wooten for combat, 1956-'68
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: john e. holliday on March 26, 2010, 08:36:06 PM
Has anybody passed Windy Urtnowski on number of top five's??? H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on March 26, 2010, 09:10:38 PM
Yup Howard,

Good ole Pipe puffin' Bob Gieseke I forgot. Shucks..

Well, since I'm limiting this to 1st and 2nd places, I guess I should add ummm  Gene Shaffer?

Jim Pollock   H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Brett Buck on March 26, 2010, 09:48:25 PM
Yup Howard,

Good ole Pipe puffin' Bob Gieseke I forgot. Shucks..

Well, since I'm limiting this to 1st and 2nd places, I guess I should add ummm  Gene Shaffer?

Jim Pollock   H^^

    I don't think I fully understand the meaning, but any list that doesn't contain David F is probably quite amiss. The run he is on now is at least in the ballpark with Paul's, and he's far from done. Aside from those two, NO ONE else's "run" is even close as far as winning goes. Paul has 10 and a WC, David has 13 or 14 (counting the Jr. Sr. and Open, I think) and a WC.

     Brett
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Brett Buck on March 26, 2010, 09:53:38 PM
Has anybody passed Windy Urtnowski on number of top five's??? H^^

   Windy's not close to that record. I would guess that Ted is far and away the leader of that one, something like 30 times. Bear might be in the running too. I would guess that Ted is also the leader of the pack in second places.

       Brett
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Howard Rush on March 26, 2010, 10:02:21 PM
I didn't even notice that David wasn't on the list.  I guess I just assumed that he was. 
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Brett Buck on March 26, 2010, 11:09:49 PM
#9  Ted Fancher 1972, 1978, 1995, 2000

    82, 86, 95, 00

     Brett
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on March 27, 2010, 10:32:41 AM
Thanks Brett,

Like I said, I was doing it without looking up anything so I knew I'd foul it up somehow.

Let's see Dave Fitzgerald 1977 to present - I think that's close to everything for Dave.

I agree, Dave is nowhere near done.  He could end up with 20 Nats wins and 6-7 WC's before being done!

Jim Pollock    mw~   y1
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Mike Ferguson on March 28, 2010, 11:58:59 AM
#8  Jim Casale 1977, 1979, 1981,1985

Jimmy's run didn't start 'til 1983. It was a little later than that.

#8  Jim Casale 1983, 1985, 1988, 1989
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Clancy Arnold on March 28, 2010, 12:46:43 PM

How about Jim Vornholt, NATS Stunt winner 1960 and 1961.  And if you include CL Scale there is Steve Ashby with three straight NATS wins in Sport Scale in the 1980's and Steve Couch 2007, 2008 and 2009 NATS winner in FAI Scale.

These are just the ones from Indianapolis.  LOL
Clancy
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Tom Niebuhr on March 29, 2010, 08:47:09 AM
Gieske, Fitzgerald, Hunt, Fancher should all be on the list.
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on March 31, 2010, 06:50:42 PM
Well Tom,

Not Bob Hunt he has only won the Nats 1 time.  Were not paying homage to someone who has one less that 3-4 times.  I also forgot good old Billy Werwage.  I think 3 World Champs and 3? Nats wins qualifies as Lightning in a bottle!

Jim Pollock   y1
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Brett Buck on March 31, 2010, 08:58:46 PM
. You would think that a Nats win and a World Champs win would add up to at least as much as two Nats wins. Guess I'll have to try harder.

See, and I just let this one go:

"P.S.  There are many single time US Nats winners, but the only one who could take up the handle and be a great threat to win again immediately is Bart Kaplinski."

 I am still not even sure what the meaning of "lightning in a bottle" night be.  This thread is clearly one of those "winter threads", I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it!

   Brett
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Bradley Walker on April 01, 2010, 08:49:34 AM
   I don't think I fully understand the meaning, but any list that doesn't contain David F is probably quite amiss. The run he is on now is at least in the ballpark with Paul's, and he's far from done.

Word (that's street for "true")

It qppears David will ultimately surpass them all.

Bob G won 5 Nats and one WC, Paul only beat him by one Nats win.  Bob would be top 3 (second?).
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Derek Barry on April 01, 2010, 09:21:31 AM


It qppears David will ultimately surpass them all.



I hope to put a stop to that ;)
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: john e. holliday on April 01, 2010, 09:21:54 AM
Also there are not that many that have won the NATS and Worlds in the same year. H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Mike Ferguson on April 01, 2010, 10:13:11 AM
Word (that's street for "true")

It qppears David will ultimately surpass them all.

Bob G won 5 Nats and one WC, Paul only beat him by one Nats win.  Bob would be top 3 (second?).

If you go by Walker Cup wins alone (and not Jr/Sr/Open wins, which I don't have handy at the moment), this is what you wind up with:

Paul Walker: 10 wins
Dave Fitzgerald: 6 wins
Bob Gieseke: 5 wins
Jim Casale, Ted Fancher: 4 wins
Bill Werwage, Davey Slagle: 3 wins

Every other Walker Cup winner either won it 1 or 2 times.

Paul, Dave, and Bob also each won the World Championships once, as did Bob Hunt (who won the Walker Cup once). Bill Werwage won the Worlds three times, as did Les McDonald (who won the Walker Cup once).

What does this all mean, apart from these guys - and others like them - are outstanding flyers and competitors?

I have no idea.   ;D
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Doug Moon on April 02, 2010, 08:17:14 PM
I hope to put a stop to that ;)

Me too.  ;)  LOL!!

(but every time I fly against David I am somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-40 points behind.  This past year I was 36 points behind him and I finished 3rd.  He only had 3 or 4 points on me in appearance.  Wow I have a long way to go...it will be fun trying to get there!!   ~>)
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: billbyles on April 02, 2010, 10:41:32 PM
Of the United States Model Airplane flyers lets try to list all that have caught lightning in a bottle and have been dominant during various previous stages.

Here are the ones I think have done so:

 Lightning in a bottle finders:

#1  Davey Slagle,  1946,47,48
#2  Lew Andrews, Unknown what years
#3  George M. Aldrich 1954, 1957
#4  Bob Palmer 1955, 1959
#5  Bill Werwage 1958, 1963, 1972, 1980, 2004
#6  Les McDonald 1978, 1980, 1982
#7  Paul Walker 1983 - present
#8  Jim Cassel 1977, 1979, 1981,1985
#9  Ted Fancher 1972, 1978, 1995, 2000

P.S.  There are many single time US Nats winners, but the only one who could take up the handle and be a great threat to win again immediately is Bart Kaplinski.

In my defense this was thought up on the spur of the moment, there could be a couple others that have caught lightning in a bottle!

Jim Pollock   :o

Hi Jim,

Not that it matters much but I believe that Art Palawski won the Walker Trophy in 1958 & Billy won it in 1959 as a senior.

Bill Byles
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: john e. holliday on April 03, 2010, 10:22:04 AM
Now that you brought it up.  How many have won the NATS in each age catagory(Jr, Sr, Op) while competing?  I think I know of a couple that have done it in Jr & Sr, but are still trying for the Open. H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Brett Buck on April 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Now that you brought it up.  How many have won the NATS in each age catagory(Jr, Sr, Op) while competing? 

  Only one.

    Brett
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: RandySmith on April 03, 2010, 02:10:16 PM
  Only one.

    Brett


So Far !!!   y1 #^ #^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on April 03, 2010, 03:41:23 PM
He used to fly with us in North Virginia, he's a pilot for one of the commuter airlines flying out of either Regan or Dulles.

Jim Pollock   :o   y1
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Howard Rush on April 03, 2010, 04:41:36 PM
Last I heard he was flying 767s, if I'm thinking of the right guy.
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Brett Buck on April 03, 2010, 06:30:40 PM
He used to fly with us in North Virginia, he's a pilot for one of the commuter airlines flying out of either Regan or Dulles.

    Incorrect, I think.

     Brett
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on April 03, 2010, 10:29:57 PM
Well, since we are talking about one person who has won Jr 3 Time and Sr. 4 Time but not won Open - yes I did fly with him in North Virginia.  Unfortunately, my memory doesn't dig up his name but I think he did that in the late 70's and early 80's right after McClellan and before Todd Lee.  Also Todd hasn't won Open either.  Or, McClellan hasn't either so that's more than one, I think that would add up to "3"  Anyway the one that I was thinking of when he was winning was from Mass.  And, yeah I did fly C/L with him in 04/05 in Northern Virginia.

Jim Pollock,  Not wrong about who I'm thinking of!  ;D
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on April 03, 2010, 10:39:19 PM
One other this,

The person I'm thinking of holds the record for most Jr. and Sr. wins with 7.  Soooo, who is it I'm thinking of?????

Jim Pollock   %^@
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Brett Buck on April 03, 2010, 10:52:07 PM
Jim Pollock,  Not wrong about who I'm thinking of!  ;D

   And not who I was talking about either. Your statement was about someone who one all three, and only David has done that.

     Brett
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: john e. holliday on April 04, 2010, 07:57:20 AM
Jim P., it is bad getting old and memory is going at times, but didn't the individual young lad also win the Worlds as a Junior in FAI.  Can't remember his name and he was so tall. H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on April 04, 2010, 11:01:21 AM
Hi Bob,

Unfortunately I did forget about your WC win.....please forgive  my inaccuracy.  You also deserve to belong in
"Bottle" club as I now call it!  This club is the people who have risen to the top of the sport and held that spot for lengthily periods of time.

Jim Pollock,   H^^  Unless something really spectacular happens in the rest of the world, I expect Dave to continue his
exceptional run this year.  I wounder if Paul is going to fly his electric Impact this year?????
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Shultzie on April 04, 2010, 11:40:37 AM
Hi Bob,

 I wounder if Paul is going to fly his electric Impact this year?????
Does a  NW COUGAR OR SEAHAWK POOP ON OUR NEWLY MOWED LAWNS?
Or will Paul fly his some of his  beautiful Electical CLPA ART? LL~ H^^ LL~ LL~
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Derek Barry on April 05, 2010, 05:17:26 AM
Now that you brought it up.  How many have won the NATS in each age catagory(Jr, Sr, Op) while competing?  I think I know of a couple that have done it in Jr & Sr, but are still trying for the Open. H^^
Dave is the only one to win all three so far as far as I know.

  Not to brag but I have won Jr, Sr. plus Advanced and a Jr. WC. Still have not got the Walker Cup (I was close once). And no Open WC yet but I am trying. Maybe one day I will have them all.
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: john e. holliday on April 05, 2010, 09:13:19 AM
Thanks Bobby,  got to shake his hand and meet his parents at the 2004 Worlds.  He is tall. 

Derek,  we are behind you on your chase for infamy.  Remember to have fun and do your best. 
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on April 05, 2010, 12:31:49 PM
In response to the question of who was it that I was flying with in NVA that has 7 Jr and Sr. wins!!!!


It is non other than the incredible ::  N  A  T        G  I  F  F  O  R  D  !!

Of course he was a little out of practice and his flying schedule didn't always let him fly when he wanted
but he did show the abilities that made him a 7 time champion.  If he ever gets some time off and
some practice  watch out!  Oh yeah, I also sold him my PA .51 so I could buy a PA .61 from Randy.....

Jim Pollock   n~ H^^

I got wound up and wrote the wrong first name...... Oh well, just proves I mess up a lot!
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Derek Barry on April 05, 2010, 12:48:35 PM
 Hey Jim,

It's Nat Gifford I do believe
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Shultzie on April 05, 2010, 01:12:52 PM
If we are including dominant Junior and Senior fliers, how about my son, Robby? He won 5 Nats crowns in a row starting in 1991 with the Junior crown, and then he reeled off 4 Senior wins in a row to go with it.

Bob Hunt
This shot of Robby's model is an awesome model...any chance of sharing this story about this beautiful GEO?
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Paul Walker on April 05, 2010, 01:29:22 PM
Does a  NW COUGAR OR SEAHAWK POOP ON OUR NEWLY MOWED LAWNS?
Or will Paul fly his some of his  beautiful Electical CLPA ART? LL~ H^^ LL~ LL~


Well, I have a new one done.  61.8 ounces this time, and in a smaller size. Same power system.  Yes, I would like to try it out against all at the Nats this year, BUT, I have other obligations during that time this year. I will thus be unable to fly at the Nats this year.

However, I plan on being back in '11.  I'll have my own personal flying site in by then, and time to practice. You youngsters may have to wait!!  :)

P Walker
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Derek Barry on April 05, 2010, 01:37:29 PM
I think this is 88 and 89 NATS. Nat Gifford is in both pictures. He built some really cool planes.

 Yes Bob, Robby did a great job during his years in stunt. He and I had some good battles. I wish he was still flying with us.

Maybe those pictures are of 87 and 88. not sure. I am sure some of the other people in the picture would know. :)
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Derek Barry on April 05, 2010, 01:42:58 PM
However, I plan on being back in '11.  I'll have my own personal flying site in by then, and time to practice. You youngsters may have to wait!!  :)

P Walker

I hear ya Paul. :o
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Mike Ferguson on April 05, 2010, 01:53:15 PM
I think this is 88 and 89 NATS. Nat Gifford is in both pictures. He built some really cool planes.

 Yes Bob, Robby did a great job during his years in stunt. He and I had some good battles. I wish he was still flying with us.

Maybe those pictures are of 87 and 88. not sure. I am sure some of the other people in the picture would know. :)

No, they're definitely 1988 and 1989. You were right the first time.   :)
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Shultzie on April 05, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
Great looking photos...from 88-89! Gee...Look how young these guys were....humm??? n~

"TIME FLIES WHEN YER' HAVE CLPA FLYIN' FUN!" LL~ H^^

Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on April 05, 2010, 09:57:14 PM
Paul,

How close is you wing to that of Dave's MoonGazer??   LL~  LL~

Jim Pollock  H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Derek Barry on April 06, 2010, 05:02:09 AM
Hey Derek:

Well, you'll get your wish; Robby's starting to fly again!

Later - Bob

Great, it will be good to see him again. I have not seen Robby since the 2004 WC.
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: john e. holliday on April 06, 2010, 08:56:24 AM
Hey that is great new Bobby.  It was a privalege for me when Robby launched for me at the NATS one year. H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Les McDonald on April 06, 2010, 03:37:37 PM
If Robby wears my old "Trick Blue Shirt With Stars" you guys don't stand a chance!

                                                                                        Les McDonald
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Matt Colan on April 06, 2010, 05:26:46 PM
In response to the question of who was it that I was flying with in NVA that has 7 Jr and Sr. wins!!!!


It is non other than the incredible ::  N  A  T        G  I  F  F  O  R  D  !!

Of course he was a little out of practice and his flying schedule didn't always let him fly when he wanted
but he did show the abilities that made him a 7 time champion.  If he ever gets some time off and
some practice  watch out!  Oh yeah, I also sold him my PA .51 so I could buy a PA .61 from Randy.....

Jim Pollock   n~ H^^

I got wound up and wrote the wrong first name...... Oh well, just proves I mess up a lot!

I met Nat two years ago at Lee, MA.  He hadn't flown for two years until that contest, and he really put on a show flying Windy's Novanta in the contest, for not flying two years.

Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on April 06, 2010, 09:16:16 PM
Matt,

In 2004-5 we flew a lot together in Northern Virginia.  He was flying out of Dulles Airport in those days.  I'm sure he and Todd Lee are troubled by the same problem.  Too many flights, not enough time off and killer sleeping schedules.
Not to mention not enough money paid by those commuter airlines they fly for.

Jim Pollock,   H^^
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on May 12, 2010, 12:08:10 PM
My silly little question now is since United and Continental are merging will David get his 777 ride back anytime soon?

Jim Pollock, just curious   :o ???
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on May 19, 2010, 05:22:28 PM
I guess nobody knows for sure.  Even David....

sorry there's so much upheaval going on in aviation these days.  What's the alternative to aviation travel these days, trains? boats? buses? cars?  Ugh...........were heading back to the dark ages.......

Jim Pollock   %^@
Title: Re: Lightning in a Bottle
Post by: Jim Pollock on June 07, 2010, 05:29:34 PM
Looks like Paul has a new lightning bolt, literally!  And is going to use it to kick the daylights out of the score board at the 2011 Nats!  Anyone for a 630, maybe 640 flight??????

Everyone who's flying at the Nats better be doing their best this year, it looks like another long session of the name Walker on the trophy in, fitting since the trophy is named the Walker trophy...... VD~

Jim Pollock   H^^