Author Topic: Undressing my Score (Read 3465 times)

Bob Reeves · « **on:** March 24, 2009, 06:49:02 AM »

Now that the Latency is ready to fly but the wether sucks decided to start the recover job on my Score. It was slowly undressing itself but it's really too good an airplane to retire. With the help of a heat gun the covering came off fairly easily leaving very little adhesive. Was really surprised that even the places I had stuck back sown with CA came off fairly easily. Squirted a little K2R on the oily places, need to go see if I can find more K2R, ran out and believe it's going to take several applications. a few places are really oil soaked.

BTW: Someone once posted in an oil removing thread to cover it with cat litter so I did a little experiment by putting the hatches in a coffee can filled with cat litter. The tank hatch has been in the can for a week.. It doesn't work as well as I thought it would, it soaked up the surface oil but hasn't helped what is soaked into the wood. Oh well it was worth a shot and was planning on making new pieces anyway.

Think the biggest problem will be around the nose, will probably cover the nose with fiberglass, silkspan on the rest of the fuselage. Paint the fuselage and cover everything else with Ultracote. Might be a good candidate to experiment with Klass Kote on.

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2009, 06:42:05 PM »

Richard Oliver used to sell cans of K2R for $6 each or $25 for a box of 6. It's been reported that ACE Hardware has it, but I've never found any there. Check out this website for many more: http://www.k2rbrands.com/purchase/stores.htm

If you're unable to locate some I can sell you one of mine.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2009, 11:24:58 PM »

Thanks Ralph,

Went to a local Homeland grocery store yesterday, they had 3 can's on the shelf so I bought all 3. Must have been fairly old stock as the cans were dusty and marked $4.29. This should get me through the Score, if not I'll try alcohol and corn starch.. If that doesn't do it I'll just bury it under CA..

Apreciate the offer..
Bob

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:32:22 PM »

Bob
I think it was Larry Renger who reported that he was able to control some greasy spots on his Smoothie-Arf recover by coating with Balsarite. Maybe keep that one in the bag of tricks too?

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:26:46 PM »

I think Balsarite (at least the film version) is also a good way to harden the balsa so that it doesn't ding so easily. I'm not sure what the difference between the thicker "fabric" and thinner "film" versions is--unless it is just the thickness. Clearly the fabric has an adhesive to stick things down, but I'm not sure if the film is chemically different or not.

added from Tower Hobby site:---note they claim it is good to use over fuel soaked wood!

Balsarite is a Clear Liquid that is used to Prep the Wood Surface Before
Applying Covering. Balsarite absorbs into the wood, waterproofing it,
strengthening it, and increasing the adhesion.

**NOT FOR USE ON MICAFILM**

FEATURES: This is for use with Film Coverings such as MonoKote, TowerKote,
EconoKote, UltraCote, 21st Century Film, Black Baron Film and
other similar coverings
Can be Applied to Fuel-Soaked Wood so that Covering can be Reapplied.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:33:18 AM »

Balsarite sounds like it might be better than CA and we can still get it in Oklahoma

The problem I've had in the past with using Balsarite is bubbles forming under the Monokote and not being able to iron them out. Could be I was putting it on too thick, if I end up with areas on the wing that I can't get clean I'll try it again (have a can of each fabric and film) but this time thin it something like 50/50.

So far 3 applications of K2r and several places are still leaching oil. Had no idea it had soaked in that much oil. Sure wished triclorethylene was still widely available, I'd just dip the whole thing.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2009, 01:24:10 PM »

Bob; One thing I used to do on my R/C pattern planes, was to use the non alergic CA to apply 1/2 oz. glass cloth to the nose of my plane. I just layed the glass cloth on the plane and rubbed the CA into the cloth with a piece of Saran wrap or a plastice bag covering my fingers. This worked very well. The one thing you have to do is wait several days before sanding and applying epoxy paint because it does need to gas off. I have a friend that painted a plane the next day after applying the glass, and it popped the paint off in several places the next day when the epoxy cured out. This might work well to seal everything before painting.

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2009, 08:43:24 PM »

Bob,

I use the Glass Cloth and Foam Friendly Ca glue often. Bob Hunt used to do whole planes that way in the past.

It sand easy and can be coated with Nitrate dope and finish per your choice. If done correctly it does not weigh much.

For whatever reason the Foam friendly Ca Glue sands well.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2009, 09:30:35 AM »

On my 4th can of K2r, some spots were so oil soaked the K2r never dried just turned into goop. Discovered if I wipe it off with a paper towl dampened with prep-sol it takes the oil soaked powder off pretty easy. Then it's ready for another squirt. On a few places that could drain I squirted with brake cleaner/degreaser and it seemed to help.

I'm winning but it's a battle..

Brett Buck · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2009, 05:28:19 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on March 28, 2009, 09:30:35 AM

On my 4th can of K2r, some spots were so oil soaked the K2r never dried just turned into goop. Discovered if I wipe it off with a paper towl dampened with prep-sol it takes the oil soaked powder off pretty easy. Then it's ready for another squirt. On a few places that could drain I squirted with brake cleaner/degreaser and it seemed to help.

I'm winning but it's a battle..

Well, I wish you good luck, but based on my previous attempts with K2R and oil, expect to spend a *very long time* doing this. I was astonished at how much oil was in there, and how long it took to get it out. You get it off near the surface, it seems OK for a few days, but then more soaks up to the surface, you do it again, looks OK, etc. ad nauseum. I did that on a Nobler nose for about two months, finally gave up, painted over it anyway, and it was never right. Eventually I crashed the airplane, looked at the insides, and they were still shiny with oil.

I know you didn't ask for advice, but if you had, I would suggest trying to see if you can cut away the oily parts (leaving about 1/2" beyond where you think the oil ends) and replace them. Rebuilding the whole front end (or whereever it is) will take less time to rebuild than to degrease in anything other than a trivial oil soak case. BTW, I had better luck with some magnetic tape head cleaner, same cycle applies but at least the cycle time is about 5 minutes instead of a week.

Brett

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2009, 08:24:37 PM »

As long as we're offering un-requested advice, Eddy once told me how to make a thick paste of Baking Soda and isopropyl for pulling oil out of a ship I was redoing.
Worked way better than K2R for me. Put it on and forgot about it for a couple days and it sucked the oil right up in one application. I think it's the sheer volume of the absorbant material, where with K2R you just get a thin coating.

EricV

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2009, 10:08:25 AM »

Actually I appreciate you guys jumping in with suggestions.. Even if it's something I already know or tried someone else reading the thread might learn something. The thing with this airplane is I'm in no hurry.. I can leave it for days and it won't make any difference, spending a few minutes cleaning then smearing on some magic potion and waiting a day or two doesn't interfere with anything else I'm working on.

Going to try a few of the other remedies when I run out of K2r, I have baking soda and corn starch but read someplace the best stuff to use is ground up chalk.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2009, 10:31:35 AM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on March 29, 2009, 10:08:25 AM

Actually I appreciate you guys jumping in with suggestions.. Even if it's something I already know or tried someone else reading the thread might learn something. The thing with this airplane is I'm in no hurry.. I can leave it for days and it won't make any difference, spending a few minutes cleaning then smearing on some magic potion and waiting a day or two doesn't interfere with anything else I'm working on.

It will make an interesting experiment. Just for reference, I ended up running our of K2R (or, more exactly, running out of money to buy more K2R, back in my college days) and left the nose of the airplane buried in a bucket of very fine sanding dust for about a month, once again, it was all caked up on the thing, I cleaned it off, and in a day or two, it was all oily again.

Brett

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2009, 10:43:07 AM »

Sounds like my cat litter experiment.. The hatches have been buried in a can of cat litter for a couple weeks. I'll check them tomorrow and see if they are any better when I checked them about a week ago. At that time the cat litter wasn't doing much but soaking up what was on the surface.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:04:37 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on March 29, 2009, 10:43:07 AM

Sounds like my cat litter experiment.. The hatches have been buried in a can of cat litter for a couple weeks. I'll check them tomorrow and see if they are any better when I checked them about a week ago. At that time the cat litter wasn't doing much but soaking up what was on the surface.

I hope you don't actually have a cat. If you do, you may find more in there than you bargained for.

Brett

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2009, 01:27:36 PM »

The worst I ever saw was on an old plane I was given. The wood around the cowl had turned to the consistency of soft wax. Once it's that far gone, I've had to cut and replace. If it's still got some grain structure to it, I've been able to whick the oil out. Oh, and applying some heat can help the oil run.

I really think you need a liquid carrier that not only helps loosen the oil, but also evaporates and lets the material (like baking soda, etc.) contract and suck up the oil. I can't see just applying a dry absorbant material by itself doing more than just getting whats on the immediate surface.

EricV

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2009, 08:39:26 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on March 29, 2009, 12:04:37 PM

I hope you don't actually have a cat. If you do, you may find more in there than you bargained for.

Brett

...and he don't mean HAIRBALLS!

If you go the Balsrite route, try not to coat too large a surface with it - it seems to grab and restrict the shrinkage on larger areas.

The other mix I have used (with mixed results) is baking soda in 80% grade rubbing alcohol, maybe you could even try warming it a little. Like Eric V suggested this will give you a little more active liquid penetrator, and you can use a heat gun to soften the oil & keep it bubbling out...

Gary Anderson · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2009, 09:04:59 PM »

Hi,

Why not put the plane in the dishwasher? Be sure to use a lot of soap and make sure you have hot water before you turn on the dishwasher. I'm sure it would remove the oil!

Good luck and have fun, Gary

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2009, 07:38:55 AM »

Actually we have two cats but one doesn't like the shop and the other has decided it's too cold to go out.

The cat litter experiment failed.. It did take the oil off the surface but left the parts pretty well oil soaked.. No bigie as I was planning on making new hatches anyway.. The good news is the oil spots on the main airframe are getting smaller by significant amounts. The outboard flap was really bad but now it only has a few oily spots near the trailing edge. K2r and wiping with prepsol seems to be the best from everything I've tried. It takes several applications but if you keep at it it does work.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:38:29 AM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on March 30, 2009, 07:38:55 AM

Actually we have two cats but one doesn't like the shop and the other has decided it's too cold to go out.

The cat litter experiment failed.. It did take the oil off the surface but left the parts pretty well oil soaked.. No bigie as I was planning on making new hatches anyway.. The good news is the oil spots on the main airframe are getting smaller by significant amounts. The outboard flap was really bad but now it only has a few oily spots near the trailing edge. K2r and wiping with prepsol seems to be the best from everything I've tried. It takes several applications but if you keep at it it does work.

THAT's encouraging - how about mixing a thin paste of Prepsol with baking soda, float it on and see if the combinaiton helps any? maybe make it a little runny to give it more time to penetrate and float the oil out?

(your cat's will thank you too)

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2009, 03:40:29 PM »

Another thing that really helps when using K2R is to heat the area with a light bulb. It lowers the viscosity of the trapped oil and the expansion of air in the balsa forces it to the surface. You can also do it with a heat gun. Heat the area and you'll see the oil bubble to the top, spray immediately.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2009, 04:40:15 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on March 24, 2009, 06:49:02 AM

Now that the Latency is ready to fly but the wether sucks decided to start the recover job on my Score. It was slowly undressing itself but it's really too good an airplane to retire. With the help of a heat gun the covering came off fairly easily leaving very little adhesive. Was really surprised that even the places I had stuck back sown with CA came off fairly easily. Squirted a little K2R on the oily places, need to go see if I can find more K2R, ran out and believe it's going to take several applications. a few places are really oil soaked.

BTW: Someone once posted in an oil removing thread to cover it with cat litter so I did a little experiment by putting the hatches in a coffee can filled with cat litter. The tank hatch has been in the can for a week.. It doesn't work as well as I thought it would, it soaked up the surface oil but hasn't helped what is soaked into the wood. Oh well it was worth a shot and was planning on making new pieces anyway.

Think the biggest problem will be around the nose, will probably cover the nose with fiberglass, silkspan on the rest of the fuselage. Paint the fuselage and cover everything else with Ultracote. Might be a good candidate to experiment with Klass Kote on.

My grandfather went through I think 2 cans of K2R to deoil his Score (the same one that was in flying models). He recovered it in ultracote and the trim scheme looks great, and I have to use those colors and layout on some plane. Problem is with his it is still too heavy even when he tried to lighten it up. The problem is it is built like an RC plane, lots of plywood.

When he decided to refinish his Mustang he went through over 5 can of K2R, and made a whole new nose because it was soooooooo soaked.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2009, 05:31:38 PM »

Would like to see a photo of your grandfather's Score.. I might steal the scheme..

Last time my Score was flying it tipped the scales at 68 ounces but it flew great. What engine did your grandfather's Score have in it? The Saito 56 in mine didn't even know it was carying an extra 6 or 7 ounces.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2009, 05:56:11 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on March 30, 2009, 05:31:38 PM

Would like to see a photo of your grandfather's Score.. I might steal the scheme..

Last time my Score was flying it tipped the scales at 68 ounces but it flew great. What engine did your grandfather's Score have in it? The Saito 56 in mine didn't even know it was carying an extra 6 or 7 ounces.

His Score weighs 72 ounces. He put a crutch in it to replace the RC mount. He has been experimenting with engines with it since it weighs sooooo much. He now has an ST .56 in it but hasn't flown it with it yet. Oh he also put a rabe rudder on it to help it up top.

I don't have a picture of it on my computer so you will have to wait until this weekend to see one.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #24 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:45:20 AM »

Well, after 5 cans of K2r I'm down to just a few spots that are still giving up oil. I'll use up the 5th can and call it good. The few spots left can easily be buried under CA or Balsarite. Would like to try foam CA but afraid to around the nose.. Running 20% nitro makes me think epoxy is the way to go when I lay down the fiberglass. Surprisingly the stock nose held up very well, have one glue joint at the font of the wing that is loose but other than that no cracks or breaks. Fiberglass will be overkill but it will insure the nose stays together in the future.

Discovered how to cover hinge gaps on a built airplane when I fixed the Shoestring elevator but one area I'm not quite sure how to handle is the inside of the flaps next to the fuselage. I only have about a 1/32 gap between the front inside of the flaps and the fuselage. No way to get even a trim iron in to cover the end of the flaps. Thinking about just painting them with Balsarite as best I can and hoping it seals out future oil contamination.

Wished I had weighed the airframe before I started just to see if the oil added any significant weight and if I made any progress but all I can do now is wait till it's complete and weigh the whole thing. Am going to add a few holes to the plywood I can get to, be interesting to see how much (if any) I can shave off the 68 ounces it weighed when I started taking it apart.

Still easier than starting over...

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #25 on:** April 03, 2009, 06:41:30 AM »

On the edges of flaps reach into the gap with a heated exacto blade. Use somthing something larger, like the "Whittler's blade", lay it on the iron for a minute or so to get it hot. Quickly move the blade into the gap and use it to rub down and stick down the covering. Then wrap over and seal on the top & bottom. Finally cover the top & bottom of flaps as you normally would.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #26 on:** April 03, 2009, 08:38:59 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on April 03, 2009, 06:41:30 AM

On the edges of flaps reach into the gap with a heated exacto blade. Use somthing something larger, like the "Whittler's blade", lay it on the iron for a minute or so to get it hot. Quickly move the blade into the gap and use it to rub down and stick down the covering. Then wrap over and seal on the top & bottom. Finally cover the top & bottom of flaps as you normally would.

Dennis,
will that seal the flaps against those pesky electrons leaking in?

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #27 on:** April 03, 2009, 08:48:15 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on April 03, 2009, 06:41:30 AM

On the edges of flaps reach into the gap with a heated exacto blade. Use somthing something larger, like the "Whittler's blade", lay it on the iron for a minute or so to get it hot. Quickly move the blade into the gap and use it to rub down and stick down the covering. Then wrap over and seal on the top & bottom. Finally cover the top & bottom of flaps as you normally would.

Thanks Dennis,

We had a club meeting last evening and your tip was also reflected by one of our members. Great tip...

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #28 on:** April 03, 2009, 04:11:23 PM »

Quote from: Alan Hahn on April 03, 2009, 08:38:59 AM

Dennis,
will that seal the flaps against those pesky electrons leaking in?

I think it can handle leaky 'lectrons, but you have to do a really thorough job to seal in those aerions - tho hinge gap seals help...

Bob:
Golly does that mean I can join your club?

Phil Spillman · « **Reply #29 on:** April 03, 2009, 06:42:59 PM »

Hi Bob, I've used a slurry consisting of a mixture of talcum powder and rubbing alcohol. Paint this on at the consistency of milk and let it dry then brush off! After several applications I get my covering iron out and use a paper towell to suck the down deep oil out of the wood! On particularly soaked parts I keep spraying on K2R for a month or two. This repeated treatment appears to work well then follow up with the iron/towell applications!

Phil Spillman

Matt Colan · « **Reply #30 on:** April 03, 2009, 06:56:08 PM »

Bob here is a trim scheme idea for your score. This is my grandfather's score that he refinished after it was in Flying Models.

Author Topic: Undressing my Score (Read 3465 times)

Alan Hahn

Walter Hicks

Eric Viglione

Eric Viglione

Alan Hahn