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Building Tips and technical articles. => ARF'S => Topic started by: Mike Callas on September 29, 2016, 11:40:38 PM
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Just finished a SV-11 ARF. Any idea where the CG should be?
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Wow, that's a beautiful plane, Mike.
How'd it go with regards to the cg?
Where'd you buy it? ARF, or ARC?
Any impressions, do you love it?
Regards,
Chris
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Ask the manufacturer? Doesn't it say in the build book?
Here's Randy's website: http://www.aeroproduct.net/ (http://www.aeroproduct.net/). His email is on there, so you can simply ask the designer.
If that fails, and if no one comes up with a better idea, put it somewhere between and inch forward of the spar to right on the spar. Then make your first few flights cautiously. (Based on my experience with a similar plane, I'd start with the CG on the spar -- but in part that's because I'm confident that I can at least get a tail-heavy plane back on the ground safely. Your mileage may vary.)
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Thanks guys!
I started on the spar and adjusted it to where it coasts level after MECO (main eng cutoff).
I started the trimming process and unfortunately, put it on hold to take care of some other priorities.
It started as an ARF that I added some internal mods, recovered (carbon veil dope and finally Klasskote) added wheel pants. Stalker 76 power.
For a novice it flies real nice and looks great inside the circle.
Mike
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Where did you find it?
I think that Brodak used to sell them. Or did you get it second hand maybe?
Thanks,
Chris
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Where did you find it?
I think that Brodak used to sell them. Or did you get it second hand maybe?
Dunno where Mike got his, but it's in current manufacture. Randy, uh, something. Smith if I'm remembering right (I get my Randy's confused -- sorry guys -- someone correct me if I'm wrong). At any rate, Aero Products:
http://www.aeroproduct.net/ (http://www.aeroproduct.net/).
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Brodak did indeed sell them. And I bought this ARF a long time ago from Brodak. I put it together this past summer. Stripped off the covering and went at it.
I also bought an SV-11 kit from Smith. That will get the Igor Burger electric setup.
Not that it means anything coming from me, but it flies great. This plane turns well, easy to get a good sight picture, and for some intangible reason that I cannot articulate, it seems to give me more time to manipulate the handle during a maneuver.
Still going thru the trimming process so more to learn!
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Dunno where Mike got his, but it's in current manufacture. Randy, uh, something. Smith if I'm remembering right (I get my Randy's confused -- sorry guys -- someone correct me if I'm wrong). At any rate, Aero Products:
http://www.aeroproduct.net/ (http://www.aeroproduct.net/).
I didn't see an SV-11 ARF on Randy Smith's website. Maybe I missed it.
I know he has the full kit, but the original poster said this was an ARF.
That's why I asked where he got it.
H^^
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Ask the manufacturer? Doesn't it say in the build book?
Here's Randy's website: http://www.aeroproduct.net/ (http://www.aeroproduct.net/). His email is on there, so you can simply ask the designer.
If that fails, and if no one comes up with a better idea, put it somewhere between and inch forward of the spar to right on the spar. Then make your first few flights cautiously. (Based on my experience with a similar plane, I'd start with the CG on the spar -- but in part that's because I'm confident that I can at least get a tail-heavy plane back on the ground safely. Your mileage may vary.)
Reread Tim, I would rather have a nose heavy plane for first fights. I've lost one tail heavy plane years ago before some one told me. S?P
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What's that old saying-
"A nose heavy plane flies terrible, but a tail heavy plane flies ONCE!"?
That particular plane seems easy enough to find the CG for.
R,
Chris
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OK, I haven't done anything productive for the group lately. Here is my "beginners guide to bench trimming" customized for the SV-11.
This is not a replacement for the vastly superior Paul Walker trim chart, and is not meant to be complete in that respect. This is just a down and dirty beginners guide as it relates specifically to the SV "in my experience".
(Randy Smith is invited to comment where I go awry)
The SV-11 "in my experience" trims out well with the fore/aft CG anywhere between 3 1/4" and 3 5/8" behind the leading edge. 3 1/4" back is the "ultra stable" range, and 3 5/8" to 3/3/4" is "very sporty" and I wouldn't fly it further back than that.
Now, that is for standard Piped IC engines. I've seen Epower SV's trim out reasonably well at 3", and if they had used a normal rotation direction on the prop, I suspect the plane would have been stable with the CG moved back to my preferred range, which is 3 5/8".
If I was a beginner that was uncomfortable with high performance planes cornering ability, putting up my first ever flight on a new SV, I'd set the CG at 3 1/4", put the leadouts 1" behind that. Set the handle spacing at 3 3/4" to 4" at the handle. (standard Kaz style or similar hardpoint or cable, not front bar handles)
Next hang it from the leadouts and re-evaluate the fore/aft C/G making sure it's slightly nose down or at least level, not up, and check the vertical C/G making sure the wheels are parallel to the ground. Lighter or heavier wheels can help with this, but it's usually not far off if you stick to the stock design and is fairly forgiving.
Balance the plane on the spinner tip and the tail wheel, and make sure the outboard wing drops slowly but without hesitation. (about 1/2 to 5/8 ounce of tip weight in the long run for me most planes, but 3/4 to 1 ounce to start usually). This can be effected immensely by how long you make your leadouts before you cut/wrap/crimp them.
Roll the plane on the ground, make sure it rolls straight ahead. When you hook up your lines, make sure the handle is vertical (90 deg to ground) when the elevators are in line with the thrust line of the engine/wing/stab (not parallel to the ground!).
Do the flaps drop on their own and the controls work freely without binding or self centering? If not, fix it now, before you fly it! (springing back towards neutral is common after taping hingeline's, redo it until they are symmetrical without springing)
When you take off for the first time, take a step back and whip the plane off the ground just to be safe. Continue whipping the plane for the first lap. If all seems reasonable ok, relax.
Next, get a lap time. Shoot for 5.1 to 5.3 seconds to your personal taste and stick with it throughout the trimming process. Trim is SPEED SENSITIVE. Do not let your laps vary a lot from flight to flight during trimming, or you will chase your tail.
Now eyeball the wings and landing gear for 2 things, do you see one wheel in front of the other, and is the wing tipped towards or away from you? This is best confirmed by your flying buddies, make sure to tell them to watch closely before you take off.
If you are confident the plane is doing well, try some large inside loops. All ok? Plane didn't come in at you? Good. Try elongating the tops of the inside loops into hugely wide ovals. Tank seem OK? Not slowing down or speeding up drastically?
Try some lazy 8's next. Still OK? Engine hasn't quit, burped, or changed speed drastically yet? Line tension in the inside vs/ outside portion of the lazy 8 seem equal?
Good, now try inverted. This is where your buddy comes in handy, have him know ahead of time to keep paying attention, now he should be checking for wings level again.
OK, get it back upright and fly it out level. No need to try and show off or be able to brag how much of a pattern you did on the first flight.
When you land, make needed adjustments, and check ALL bolts, pull cowl, check engine bolts, check wheel play, etc. Button it up, you are ready for flight #2, and you will be the only one who really knows when it is ready to pattern. Refer to Paul's excellent trim chart from here forward and you should be golden.
Most importantly, breath, relax & bring it home in one piece!
EricV
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You mean we are to breath and relax at the same time!!! LL~ LL~ LL~ Thanks Eric, great advice. H^^
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Thanks Eric,
So far the plane flies great. Still working on the trim process and breaking in the motor.
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Thanks Eric,
So far the plane flies great. Still working on the trim process and breaking in the motor.
Eric's post was good and covered a lot of info, so use for good advantage, I setup mine to start at 3 3/8 inch from root center, (which is very close to right at the high point of the airfoil) use a 4 inch spread on my handle, try it there, then adjust the CG and handle spacing for final tweek trimming.
by the way, the new company is building the NEW ARF and ARC SV-11S Now. I have had the prototypes here for getting it all right... they will be much better than the last runs we had from the old company
Randy
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Hey Eric
Just perused your post here and it co-insides with my resurgence into model aviation in North Carolina. Found a RC club that would accommodate an old control liner - if I mowed the circle! Really I'm happy to do that (hey its a John Deere). Club is http://etowahrc.org/.
Anyway reading your post brings me back to basics to get started so thanks!
Still got the old Chevy and doing quite a bit of hiking here in Western NC. Lots of waterfalls.
Hi to the guys down there and happy flyin'.
Bud
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Hey Bud,
Welcome back!!!!
You are 2hrs from Huntersville, so you have an awesome local contest to go to, and a nice field when you don't feel like mowing lawn for Etowah.
My sister & her husband just moved back to Florida from Jamestown NC, and she always raved about how nice it was up there, almost like Mayberry / Mt Pilot in a time warp, heh.
EddyR is within a couple hours of you too.
Probably isn't cricket to hijack this thread, so PM or email me if you want to gab more, but sure, I'll pass word along to the gang.
Back on subject, if you get one of the new SV11 ARC/ARF when available or build from one of Randy's kits, I think you will like it. Great design.
Have fun!
EricV
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So Randy
When will ARF or ARC SV11 be for sale? By you I assume or is this a Brodak buy?
I am curious so I would also like to know the preferred engine for the ARF or ARC SV11 and also a source
And lastly because I searched and can not find... How expensive are these ARF or ARC SV11s?
I do see on the Aero web site the SV11 kit for $299
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Hi Randy,
Will your SV-11 ARC/ARF be offered in an electric version, like the excellent new ARF P-40 ?
Regards,
Rudy Taube
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I too am interested in the SV's in ARF (probably ARC preferred for me), and quite possibly an e-version, although I'm about as undecided as they come right now on glow vs. E-power.
Please put out more info, Randy Smith!
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Please put out more info, Randy Smith!
C'mon, Man!
:-)
We needs some information on the NEW SV-11's....
Please.
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C'mon, Man!
:-)
We needs some information on the NEW SV-11's....
Please.
Hi Chris
Yes they will be here in 4 to 5 weeks, and they are built by our new manufacture for ARFs ARCs , they are doing a much better job than the last company that went out of business.
Both the Vector 40 and SV-11s will be in the same shipment, and YES there is an IC and electric version for both planes
I will post more as info comes in on colors price etc,,
Randy
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That's great to hear.
Looks like a birthday present to myself is in the works....
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Hello Randy
is there any update on ETA of the New ARFs ARCs?
Much too hot these days to play airplane outside and the magnum .52 you sent me is lonely
NOT a super concern of mine but I am curious about colors/schemes and estimated prices as I am sure the other guys waiting in line may be
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Hello Randy
is there any update on ETA of the New ARFs ARCs?
Much too hot these days to play airplane outside and the magnum .52 you sent me is lonely
NOT a super concern of mine but I am curious about colors/schemes and estimated prices as I am sure the other guys waiting in line may be
Hi
John just told me another 4 to 5 weeks, they are trying to fill the container with ARFs ARCs before they send it off
Randy
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dang
OTOH...probably a good thing they are not doing 105 planes per hour
Any chance you or John has the ordered ARF color trim schemes to share?
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dang
OTOH...probably a good thing they are not doing 105 planes per hour
Any chance you or John has the ordered ARF color trim schemes to share?
I will post the colors as soon as I know
The Vector Kits and SV-11 kits will be shipped soon, and will be in stock around Oct 1 week
please let me know if you want to pre order and be on the shipping list for these
Regards
Randy 678 407 9376
Randyaero@msn.com
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Sorry Randy I asked about colors in one of the other threads before seeing this one
Waiting patiently ....grin