Hi Bill,
Please see my post #50 for an explanation of why I split Steve F's original post into it's own topic and separated it from the original Brodak mfg. topic.
Actually, Steve F did say that ARFs were bad for CL and that they should die away. Here is his quote:
"Personally, I'd like to see Brodaks go back to expanding their excellent in house kit line and let the ARFs die away. My 2 cents (no, not a political diatribe) after seeing years of the ARFs come and go is that stunt was a better place without them. I don't think they brought hordes of new pilots into stunt, and the siren song of a killer big stunter without the effort required to actually build one left many dissapointed when the ARF simply didn't hold up under very hard use.
Keeping up with the myriad chinese QC issues with ARFs often left Brodaks factory people exhausted with just keeping up as they boxed and shipped hundreds of planes, then they had to deal with the scores of returns for shipping damage or QC issues. I think it left them *just barely* able to keep up with production of the existing in house made kits, and seems to have stifled the release of significant numbers of new kits.
I know even my club buddies might disagree, but as I watched them, skilled scratch builders every one, tinker and struggle away with whatever the latest ARF was, I can't help but feel that the ARFs stifled the development of pilots as well as kit production. Somebody who really wants to fly stunt deserves better than what the Chinese can produce..."
I was going to label Steve Fs new topic with a much harsher title but I tried to be as PC as possible.
I am very used to the ARF bashing since I came back to CL almost 4 years ago. I have tried very hard to be civil, even when most of the bashers have not been. As I and others have stated many times, the early CL ARFs had some problems, all these have been reported on and easily fixed. The latest generation of CL ARF/ARCs are very good and do not have any need for fixes or parts replacements.
These new CL ARF/ARC's are not yet up to the excellent level of modern RC ARFs, but they are getting closer every day. They are now as good as the majority of CL builders can produce from a kit. There are many great craftsman in the CL community, and I think it would take one of these master builders to make a plane any better than the beautiful ARC Impact from Steve Moon, or the outstanding ARF/ARC SV-11 from Randy Smith. I have both of these and they are very well built with light strong wood and all the HW is useable as is.
Of course everyone on this ARF forum is welcome to his opinion, this is why I gave Steve F. his own topic when he expressed his negative opinion on ARFs. But I think it is very unfair for anyone to denigrate the third generation of high quality ARF/ARCs of today based on the quality of first generation ARFs that were first produced over 5 years ago. This would be like me saying that CL Kits are terrible and they should die because they have die crush ribs, warped wood and poor plans and instructions. This all was true with the first generation of CL kits, I remember them well. But this is NOT true of the excellent third generation CL kits we enjoy today.
I have talked to many people including the manufacturers, and I can safely say that the # of problems with ARFs have been greatly exaggerated by the small group of ARF bashers out there. With over 12,000 CL ARF/ARCs in the world the # of problems is a very, very small %. My Brodak P-40 ARF is now over 3 yrs old, and it was built stock except for a CF push rod. It has over 400 flights, most off a very rough grass field and with a few bumps along the way, and it still flies just like new without any mods or changes and using all the stock HW. The covering is still like new too and has never come loose anywhere. I expect my SV-11 and Impact ARCs to be the same in three years too.
As I mentioned before, I think this tread has been very civil given that this is normally a heated subject. It has wandered off the path a little with the design issues, but in general it has tried to address the issues that Steve F. first brought up. Bill, if you were referring to the design posts, then I agree with you, maybe we should start a new topic on this interesting issue.
Happy New Year to all.
Warm Regards,