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Author Topic: One way to replace the leadouts  (Read 2893 times)

Offline Bob Reeves

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One way to replace the leadouts
« on: April 18, 2008, 07:06:39 AM »
This all started when I was trying to figure out the easiest way to replace the leadouts in the P-40 wing I am using in my profile Shoestring. Opening up an inspection hole in the covering reveled the bellcrank is post mounted and would be a bear to remove. Needed to come up with a way to install new leadouts without removing the bellcrank. Sorry a couple of the photos are a little blurred but they show enough to get the idea across..

#1 This is the original leadout attachment.. Needless to say less than optimal.
#2 Kinda shows the bellcrank mounted between the plywood supports and why it would be a bear to remove.
#3 Found a steel rod with an OD large enough to capture an eyelet, chucked it in the lathe, drilled and taped the center for a 4-40 screw.
#4 Turned the end to make a bearing for an eyelet and cut it off.
#5 Finished parts...
#6 Wrap bellcrank end of new leadouts as normal outside the wing.
#6 Tape new leadouts to old and pull through the wing.
#7 Gather the additional hardware needed and drill the end of the bellcrank with a 4-40 clearance drill.
#8 Install on bellcrank..

My first inspection hole was cut in the top sheeting but later discovered everything could be accomplished from the bottom with two small holes in the top sheeting for the ball driver. The ball driver holes are on the centerline and will be covered by the fuselage.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 09:21:47 AM »
Elegant solution, I like it.
I too have played the kit bash with the P-40 wing. I made mine into a Gee Bee Y model, pretty great way to go.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 11:12:55 AM »
Slickity!!

Cheers,
Jim
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 01:10:46 PM »
This all started when I was trying to figure out the easiest way to replace the leadouts in the P-40 wing I am using in my profile Shoestring. Opening up an inspection hole in the covering reveled the bellcrank is post mounted and would be a bear to remove. Needed to come up with a way to install new leadouts without removing the bellcrank. Sorry a couple of the photos are a little blurred but they show enough to get the idea across..

#1 This is the original leadout attachment.. Needless to say less than optimal.
#2 Kinda shows the bellcrank mounted between the plywood supports and why it would be a bear to remove.
#3 Found a steel rod with an OD large enough to capture an eyelet, chucked it in the lathe, drilled and taped the center for a 4-40 screw.
#4 Turned the end to make a bearing for an eyelet and cut it off.
#5 Finished parts...
#6 Wrap bellcrank end of new leadouts as normal outside the wing.
#6 Tape new leadouts to old and pull through the wing.
#7 Gather the additional hardware needed and drill the end of the bellcrank with a 4-40 clearance drill.
#8 Install on bellcrank..

My first inspection hole was cut in the top sheeting but later discovered everything could be accomplished from the bottom with two small holes in the top sheeting for the ball driver. The ball driver holes are on the centerline and will be covered by the fuselage.


HI Bob
Looks like a great solution.... so  how  much are you going to sell  the  bellcrank\leadout update kit for?? <= <= <= <=


Randy

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 04:36:19 PM »
Thats funny Randy  ;D

One of my dear friends is keeping a list of stuff I've made and keeps threatning me with going public. As I'm sure you have done also, most of the stuff took hours/days for something I could have probably bought for 35 cents.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2008, 10:03:04 PM »
Thats funny Randy  ;D

One of my dear friends is keeping a list of stuff I've made and keeps threatning me with going public. As I'm sure you have done also, most of the stuff took hours/days for something I could have probably bought for 35 cents.


Nothing  like making the parts your self  though..  In reality  you would most likley  never  find parts that did that job anywhere, so there  is  nothing like having a lather in the shop,  look at the gas  you saved... And  yes  I too have  made  many many  tiny parts that I may could have found elsewhere, but  hey, I had a lot more  fun than  wasting  gas  looking thru hardware stores.  ;D ;D ;D

Regards
Randy

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2008, 08:07:21 AM »
But, what about us that don't have a lathe, let alone the experience to use it?  I like your solution Bob.  I am still trying to figure out how to cut the wing of the P-40 ARF so I can add dihedral.  Later,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2008, 05:42:55 AM »
Hi Doc,

After opening up the P-40 wing I would say it would me a major operation to cut dihedral into it. The bellcrank would have to be moved and most of the sheeting cut off to gain access. If I were building the P-40 and this really bothered me afraid I would have to go with the kit rather than an ARF.. On the other hand many p-40 ARF's are flying stock and a wart or slight flap tweak seems to solve the vertical cg issue. I've never heard anyone that flys one complaining about the way it flys.

On the leadouts.. If I didn't have a lathe I would have probably just cut a couple of pieces of brass tubing and used a couple of washers. Brass on Brass isn't the idea bearing combination but lubed it should be better and last longer than the stock leadouts. It would be ideal if one could find steel tubing in the right size.. Haven't researched it but might be available someplace. The eyelets I used are a little larger than most which gave me enough wall thickness on the bushings with clearance for the #4 screws. Not even sure where they came from, just happened to have them in my eyelet collection..

The only reason I tapped the bushings was I was originally going to install the screw from the other direction and use the bushing as the nut. After thinking about how to make sure the bushing nut wouldn't come loose, lock tight, CA, JB weld I decided to insert the screw from the other direction and use a lock nut. This also made it easier to assemble inside the wing..

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2008, 11:16:53 AM »
FWIW,
Pat Johnston and I had many conversations about this very thing, that being adding dihedral to the already built wing.
I have done three of them, it takes about oh an hour or so to do. It is very easy, and I know from mine, I have stuffed two of them hard in the ground, hard enough to disintigrate the fuse and the wing modification never showed any signs of letting go or failing.
I did a phot essay on the whole process here on SH several months back.
Here is a link to it.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=4931.0
if you have any problems Doc, or it doesnt make sense, email me, or ask here
I am a strong supporter of this wing and its benefits, of course, a wing by itself is just a wing. I know my first one , the Q modified P40, weighed 59 oz due to some finishing ignorance on my part. It flew  fantastic even at that weight with a LA 46.
check out the pictres and let me know if it makes sense to you
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Bill Little

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2008, 12:25:08 PM »
Hi Bob,

I will PM you with my address so that you can ship me a lathe, gratis.  I will even go so far as to hel;p out with a few bucks for shipping!
 
It doesn't have to be brand new, just a good functioning one with all the necessary tools.

Thanks!
Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2008, 12:58:24 PM »
FWIW,
Pat Johnston and I had many conversations about this very thing, that being adding dihedral to the already built wing.
I have done three of them, it takes about oh an hour or so to do. It is very easy, and I know from mine, I have stuffed two of them hard in the ground, hard enough to disintigrate the fuse and the wing modification never showed any signs of letting go or failing.
I did a phot essay on the whole process here on SH several months back.
Here is a link to it.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=4931.0
if you have any problems Doc, or it doesnt make sense, email me, or ask here
I am a strong supporter of this wing and its benefits, of course, a wing by itself is just a wing. I know my first one , the Q modified P40, weighed 59 oz due to some finishing ignorance on my part. It flew  fantastic even at that weight with a LA 46.
check out the pictres and let me know if it makes sense to you

Good post Mark,

Didn't think of leaving the center section flat, sure would make it easier than what I was thinking. Wow 59 ounces on that wing is impressive. Expecting my Shoestring to come in at just over 40, should be great..

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2008, 01:13:15 PM »
Hi Bob,

I will PM you with my address so that you can ship me a lathe, gratis.  I will even go so far as to hel;p out with a few bucks for shipping!
 
It doesn't have to be brand new, just a good functioning one with all the necessary tools.

Thanks!
Bill <><

Hi Bill, wished I could...

Over the last 15 years or so I knew someday I was going to retire and end up on a fixed income with little money to spend on toys. So I started buying and collecting all the tools/toys I thought I might need/want when I had the money to do it.

One item I bought was a Unimat-III hobby lathe for something like $200.00, I recently sold that lathe and  accessories for over $800.00 on eBay.. Enough to buy the Micro Mark 7 X 14 and a bunch of tooling. Because I was thinking ahead, I have a fairly well equipped shop and have the tools to satisfy all my hobbies and intrestest. It's all a mater of priorities and hanging on to the stuff through the hard times.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2008, 01:20:49 PM »
Bob,
yeah the weight was a shocker,, I didnt have a scale, and well, I was more about making it pretty and didnt stand close enough to the sandpaper. Plus my experimental finish technique backfired on me. I used Micafilm and a very light coat of prime. when I sanded the primer, it fuzzed the micafilm and so then I had to reprime to seal the fuzz down, sigh, live and learn. but the real shocker was when I flew it, and it performed great despite the obese weight! Pat Johnston and Randy were there and were both pretty surprised at how well if flew.
40 oz, yeah I think it will probably fly ok that light lol n~ My Gee Bee Y model that uses the same wing is in the hi 40 oz, which is still pretty good for that much wing. and it flies great too. I am thinking about putting my Saito .40A on it, something about the sound of the 4 stroker on the gee bee looking beast just warms my heart!
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Bill Little

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2008, 02:07:15 PM »
Hi Bill, wished I could...

Over the last 15 years or so I knew someday I was going to retire and end up on a fixed income with little money to spend on toys. So I started buying and collecting all the tools/toys I thought I might need/want when I had the money to do it.

One item I bought was a Unimat-III hobby lathe for something like $200.00, I recently sold that lathe and  accessories for over $800.00 on eBay.. Enough to buy the Micro Mark 7 X 14 and a bunch of tooling. Because I was thinking ahead, I have a fairly well equipped shop and have the tools to satisfy all my hobbies and intrestest. It's all a mater of priorities and hanging on to the stuff through the hard times.

Hi Bob,

It was worth a SHOT! LL~ LL!

I have done much as you have.  But a mill and lathe were the two single items I didn't find...........  :'(  I will run across a good deal when I least expect it and then I will be set.  I am not *as* worried about a milling machine.  For all I do, my *Dutch Mill* works fine. ;D

I do REALLY LIKE that idea!  A very good looking leadout attachment system and one that can be used in ANY application it seems!

(anyway, I am still open to that free lathe! LL~ LL~ LL~  n~  :## )

Bill <><
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: One way to replace the leadouts
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2008, 06:51:03 AM »
Thanks Mark,  the pictures really make it a lot easier than I would think.  When and if I get my latest kit done I will start on the ARF P-40.  Thanks again,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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