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Author Topic: New Vector 40 ARF  (Read 1670 times)

Online Allen Eshleman

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New Vector 40 ARF
« on: June 14, 2022, 06:41:48 PM »
I just bought a new IC Vector 40 ARF at Brodak.  On examination, it looks great.  It looks the the leadouts are installed up to standard on the bellcrank. Not the former crimped arrangement.  I have two preliminary questions.  1.  Are the leadouts on this new batch trustworth?    2.   Has anyone installed a tank larger than 4 oz.  I have an LA - 46, a B 40 and an FP 40 available.  I probably prefer the LA 46 but I have read that the the B-40 can pull it through the pattern.  I am wondering if 4 oz is enough for an LA-46?    Thanks in advance.

Offline Motorman

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2022, 09:08:38 PM »
I fly the full pattern on a 63' radius all the time with an LA46 with 4oz uniflow tank on 10% nitro but, my venturi is .265" with a PA spraybar and full factory muffler 11-4.5 TT prop. 

If the FP40 is a good runner I'd go with that one. It's a good match for the Vector imho. More power than the B40 and lighter than the LA46. For that size plane you really have to de-tune the LA46 somehow. Run it flat rich, head shims, smaller venturi, restrictive muffler and more tail weight.

If the lead outs are just bare cable through the bellcrank or if they are thicker than .028" I would change them. You want a free and flexible joint there and through the lead out guide.

YMMV
Motorman 8)

Online Allen Eshleman

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2022, 07:58:06 AM »
The leadouts on the bellcrank run through a sort of hexagonal (half) piece of copper tubing and are wrapped as recommended.  Beautiful job. This Vector 40 ARF is from the latest batch.  I want to know if anyone has made any strengthening modifications to this latest batch of Vectors.  They have them of every color (IC and Electric) from what I observed very quickly.  They also have some SV11 ARF's.  They said they found some recently in the warehouse.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2022, 08:52:07 AM »
I fly the full pattern on a 63' radius all the time with an LA46 with 4oz uniflow tank on 10% nitro but, my venturi is .265" with a PA spraybar and full factory muffler 11-4.5 TT prop. 
Let me echo Motorman. I don't remember the venturi size but I routinely flew my LA46 full patterns + about 5 laps on 4 oz.  The plane was 650sq and 51oz.  I measured what I put in the tank.  If I were going down this path today I would build in a 6oz clunk but, being an ARF it might not fit.

Ken
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If it is not broke, don't fix it.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Motorman

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2022, 11:05:14 AM »
If it's the kind where you put the 2 wing halves together, just check around in the root section for stuff that's not glued or needs more glue. Mine was an SV11 and there were allot of things hanging loose in there.

When I joined the wing halves I made a piece of paper to go over the bellcrank area to keep glue from dripping down and jamming the controls. Just pull it out through the pushrod hole later.

I seem to remember the V40 had a rep for snaping the tail off in a harder landing so, maybe add some fuselage doublers inside around the trailing edge area.

I use to have a Vector 40 arf, now you're making me want to build one.

Hope that helps,
Motorman 8)

Online Allen Eshleman

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2022, 08:20:58 PM »
There are a bunch of ARF and ARC Vectors at  Brodaks.  These will probably be the last ones.

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2022, 07:33:58 PM »
I have two early ARC Vector 40s.

If the engine bay in the later examples is the same as my early ones, there is an issue with the length of the LA 46 and FP 40 — their length is such that you must use a spinner with a recessed back, like the Dubro design.

If you want to use a spinner like the Brodak design, you need to fill the gap between the nose ring and the back edge of the spinner.

The majority of LA 46s used at our club have run best on the 6.75mm ID venturi that came with early FP 35s and FP 40s. The best running FP40s have all used the stock FP 20/25 venturi (6.55mm ID). Since the 6.75mm venturi has been unavailable for years — unless you know somebody with some spares — I have simply used a reamer to open up the 20/25 venturi and not made any alteration to the rest of the throat since the increase is fairly small.

I think there are plenty of Vectors flying with Brodak 40s which are shorter than the FP and LA and lighter.

Don't forget that if you have a need to extend flight time, the addition of a bit of acetone and a reduction in the nitro will help.

Acetone is an old speedway riders' trick that was reflected in Shell A. The data sheet used to say there was 3–5% hydrocarbon depending on the season. A former work colleague of mine — who was Australian Speedway Masters Champion about 15 years ago — was surprised that we modellers were not fully familiar with the use of acetone. He said that it was very commonly used in speedway — especially on cold nights.

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2022, 10:37:08 PM »
I have two early ARC Vector 40s.

If the engine bay in the later examples is the same as my early ones, there is an issue with the length of the LA 46 and FP 40 — their length is such that you must use a spinner with a recessed back, like the Dubro design.

If you want to use a spinner like the Brodak design, you need to fill the gap between the nose ring and the back edge of the spinner.

The majority of LA 46s used at our club have run best on the 6.75mm ID venturi that came with early FP 35s and FP 40s. The best running FP40s have all used the stock FP 20/25 venturi (6.55mm ID). Since the 6.75mm venturi has been unavailable for years — unless you know somebody with some spares — I have simply used a reamer to open up the 20/25 venturi and not made any alteration to the rest of the throat since the increase is fairly small.

I think there are plenty of Vectors flying with Brodak 40s which are shorter than the FP and LA and lighter.

Don't forget that if you have a need to extend flight time, the addition of a bit of acetone and a reduction in the nitro will help.

Acetone is an old speedway riders' trick that was reflected in Shell A. The data sheet used to say there was 3–5% hydrocarbon depending on the season. A former work colleague of mine — who was Australian Speedway Masters Champion about 15 years ago — was surprised that we modellers were not fully familiar with the use of acetone. He said that it was very commonly used in speedway — especially on cold nights.

    A good portion of the guys reading this probably don't know what speedway racing is!! The ones in Southern California may, if there are any left there!! Bruce Penhall was a typical southern Cal blonde headed beach kid the took to the sport and eventually became world champion. There is supposed to be a cinder track somewhere in Indiana but I have never found any information on  it. Search the engine section a bit, I know acetone has been mentioned as an additive before but I forget what ailment it was supposed to cure. Around these parts, to extend run time, Coleman lantern fuel is usually added to the regular fuel mix. Anything that will blend in and burn should do the trick. All it is doing is taking up some space of the methanol, so you have to lean out the needle to get the same RPM, and thus a longer run time.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2022, 08:51:55 PM »
If you are going to try to fit the Sullivan 6 oz. tank, get the flexible one. It will let you squeeze the "overflow vent bubble" along the fuselage side. As far as length, that's going to be tight, too. My Vectarf has some major nose mods (bulkhead moved forward, etc.) but it looks like from where the bulkhead used to be, you would have to get the neck and tubes thru it. A slant tank might help? I am running the Sullivan 4 oz. RST but so far have been using the Evo .36 and OS .35FX. One of our club members has just started flying a Vectarf with an OS .46LA (he won't run anything else....) so I could ask him what he's got for a tank if that helps.

To Geoff's and Dan's comments on doctoring fuel with acetone for range extension--and speedway:

https://www.facebook.com/SCFTARacing/photos/gm.704385087320532/7838189396193026/

There are tracks at Costa Mesa, Perris, Bakersfield and Ventura here in SoCal.


Online Dan McEntee

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2022, 10:19:54 PM »
If you are going to try to fit the Sullivan 6 oz. tank, get the flexible one. It will let you squeeze the "overflow vent bubble" along the fuselage side. As far as length, that's going to be tight, too. My Vectarf has some major nose mods (bulkhead moved forward, etc.) but it looks like from where the bulkhead used to be, you would have to get the neck and tubes thru it. A slant tank might help? I am running the Sullivan 4 oz. RST but so far have been using the Evo .36 and OS .35FX. One of our club members has just started flying a Vectarf with an OS .46LA (he won't run anything else....) so I could ask him what he's got for a tank if that helps.

To Geoff's and Dan's comments on doctoring fuel with acetone for range extension--and speedway:

https://www.facebook.com/SCFTARacing/photos/gm.704385087320532/7838189396193026/

There are tracks at Costa Mesa, Perris, Bakersfield and Ventura here in SoCal.

       There is a difference between Speedway racing and typical flat track racing. The biggest difference is that Speedway bikes are very light weight, have no brakes what so ever, are a purpose built bike with a single cylinder engine around 500cc's, single speed transmission and dry clutch. They often burn straight nitro methane. Wheels and tires are much thinner than what are seen on those in the picture that the link take you to. Races are usually four lap sprint races that can be quite exciting. Slowing the bikes down for the turns is accomplished by pitching the bike sideways and controlling the speed and direction that the bike is going with the throttle and steering. Speedway is very big in Europe where they can draw crowds approaching 10 to 20,000 people. These bikes mostly race on cinder tracks. Truly a matter of turning right to go left! Flat track is much the same, but bikes are heavier, multi speed transmission, bigger tires with rear brakes, and race on tracks ranging from 1/4 mile up to one mile ovals. Riders usually wear a steel skid shoe on their left boot to help with guiding and steering the bike in the turns, especially on short tracks. I have seen some of the top riders on mile tracks that are well groomed and prepared, manage to broad slide their bikes through the turns and not put their left foot down, and doing so can really push their speed average up considerably, near the 100mph range.  An off shoot of that is what is called TT, and is on a shorter track, anywhere from 1/5 to 1/2 mile long that also has a right turn or two in it along with a shallow jump. One of the most prestigious and longest running dirt track races in the country is the Peoria TT held at a club track near Peoria, Il. It has been held for something like 75 years or more. For a good movie that explains these with some fantastic video and camera work, you MUST see the classic "On Any Sunday" by Bruce Brown. The follow up movie follows the pursuit of a world championship in Speedway by Bruce Penhall, who cut his teeth racing motorcycles in southern California.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
 
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Online Allen Eshleman

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2022, 09:32:26 AM »
I bought the recommended 4 ounce Magnum tank.  I am not quite ready to build but my intention for now, is to use that tank.
 

Online Reptoid

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2022, 03:04:24 PM »
Quote from: Dan McEntee link=topic
 
[/quote
=61764.msg639206#msg639206 date=1655871594]
 
       "There is a difference between Speedway racing and typical flat track racing. The biggest difference is that Speedway bikes are very light weight, have no brakes what so ever, are a purpose built bike with a single cylinder engine around 500cc's, single speed transmission and dry clutch. They often burn straight nitro methane. "
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Wrong. They have never run Nitro in Speedway motorcycles. They run straight methanol with oil (Normally castor), in their Jawa  or GM engines as they are total loss oiling system

If you're going to hijack a thread to show off your expertise, try to get the facts straight. We were friends with and sponsored riders out of our shop for years running at Costa Mesa speedway.
Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2022, 03:37:24 PM »
Oh, some of us definitely know what Speedway is, and have seen it done! We had a Speedway track at Auburn in the California foothills till a few decades ago and we would see cars with speedway bikes (they weigh almost nothing) on car bumper carriers on their way up Highway 80. How about the even more obscure Grass Track racing in the UK, with similar equipment to Speedway?

Dan, do you maybe have a link to pics of your vintage enduro bikes and other vintage dirt stuff?

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2022, 01:22:09 AM »
All the SoCal tracks I listed host Speedway along with other categories. You can go and measure the tires....

Offline Kafin Noe'man

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2022, 04:37:41 AM »
Finally finished assembling the Brodak Vector 40 ARF. This is my first Brodak ARF and I have been enjoying the process. Really great package, everything fits perfectly and very easy to assemble.

Mine weighs around 47-49 oz.

I’m going to put:
[ ] ENYA 35XS + Tongue Muffler
[ ] 4.5 Oz Magnum Fuel Tank
[ ] 10-6 Master Airscrew Prop
[ ] 1 3/4”  Aluminum Spinner
[ ] .015 x 60 Lines


Online Allen Eshleman

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2022, 09:18:16 AM »
That looks great!  I haven't started working on mine yet.  Did you replace the leadout lines or did they look okay to you?  Is yours from the recent batch?  The latest batch, of which mine is, had some improvements over the first batch made.

Offline Kafin Noe'man

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2022, 12:08:12 AM »
That looks great!  I haven't started working on mine yet.  Did you replace the leadout lines or did they look okay to you?  Is yours from the recent batch?  The latest batch, of which mine is, had some improvements over the first batch made.

I ordered it on April/May this year, so I guess I got the recent batch. The leadout lines look okay to me, didn’t change it.
The only thing that I changed was the CA hinge, I didn’t use any of them, instead I use the DuBro Barrel Hinges.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 12:44:47 AM by Kafin Noe'man »

Offline Colin McRae

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Re: New Vector 40 ARF
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2022, 09:04:25 AM »
There are a bunch of ARF and ARC Vectors at Brodaks.  These will probably be the last ones.

Yes, they will be the last ones. I talked to Brodak recently and due to cost, when their existing ARF and ARC inventory is gone, that will be it. No more new CL ARC's or ARF's from Brodak. I believe they will still carry kits. I wanted an ARF so I picked up a P40 profile model.

I also have a Vector 40. Not in the air yet. I did not build it but purchased it from a local guy. I am going to try an OS 40 LA to start. But I also have a 46 LA if needed. It has a 4 oz uniflow tank. My model is pretty heavy at 64 oz. I did not have control over the weight since I did not build it, but the original builder did a great job. Not sure if it was a kit or ARC. It is beautifully painted, so not an ARF.


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