Author Topic: Flight Streak ARF (Read 3422 times)

Bob Disharoon · « **on:** July 26, 2007, 11:23:05 AM »

CAUTION....I've been posting this on all the forums..The factory instructions say 3.25 from LE.....WAY too far back..a friend and I lost our Streaks{same engines, CG, and setups}..took off ,went verticle immediately ,and straight down...about a 3 second run. I would be interested in seeing some feedback from other owners..thanx, Bob

john e. holliday · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2007, 07:58:00 AM »

On my ARF Streak I assembled it according to the instructions skipping the leadout portion. I do not like their method of terminations. Put an LA25 on it and went flying. Just hung it by leadouts to see how it would hang. After numerous flights with wing not flying level, we finally put a coke can trim tab on outboard wing. Until that time I would scare John Bender flying it. By the way it never did come in on the lines doing the pattern. John did build me a new tank for it. Right now it is sitting waiting for a new nose. At least a half dozen people have flown it. Have fun, DOC Holliday

Bob Disharoon · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2007, 11:09:03 AM »

My friend reflew his today after repairing the damage from last crash....used the 2 finger method, set the cg and it flew great with the osla25.Man..that sucker is fast!

Bob Disharoon · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2007, 03:33:03 PM »

Well..if I was still 25 and could still fly a Voodoo/fox 35 on 10 min. worth of fuel, I might consider it !

Bill Little · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2007, 01:17:42 AM »

Quote from: Bob Disharoon on July 26, 2007, 11:23:05 AM

CAUTION....I've been posting this on all the forums..The factory instructions say 3.25 from LE.....WAY too far back..a friend and I lost our Streaks{same engines, CG, and setups}..took off ,went verticle immediately ,and straight down...about a 3 second run. I would be interested in seeing some feedback from other owners..thanx, Bob

The CG stated in the "kit" ARF is an error. I don't know if TF ever corrected it, but that recommended CG is instant "re-kit" for 99.9% of anyone who would get one. I haven't really ever checked the CG on my FS, but I know it is forward of the spars.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #5 on:** July 29, 2007, 12:07:28 PM »

For what it's worth, my Top Flite Flitestreak KIT (not ARF) plans show the balance point right on the spars---which on my ARF version is a little less than 3" back from LE.
On my Fox15 ARF version I finally balanced it roughly half way from the spars to the LE (about 1.5 inches). Flies pretty nice thst way without being too twitchy.

Ed Obermeyer · « **Reply #6 on:** November 11, 2007, 07:13:44 PM »

My Flight Streak arf is balances at 3.25 behind LE, flying with a 25FP with 2oz tail weight, flies great turns on a dime and gives 9 cents change, pushrod is on the inside hole on belcrank and middle hole on horn.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #7 on:** November 11, 2007, 07:29:47 PM »

Just out of curiosity, Ed, do you mind saying how old you are? I'm 61, and my scratch Streaks are balanced just behind the LE pieces. They are just about as "twichey" as I would want, but maybe you could convince me to move the CG back? I guess I should say that mine are powered by old Foxes, so there may be a speed difference involved.

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2007, 08:50:26 PM »

I have seen one of George's plans for the larger Flitestreak. The CG was drawn over the spar (as in the Top Flight kit) but had been mostly erased and the word "Wrong" written in George's handwriting. The new CG was drawn in just at the trailing edge of the leading edge wood, where it is shown on the Brodak plan. I have George's proof sheets for both the Brodak Flitestreak kit plans. Interesting that the CG is shown further back on the Flitestreak Jr. My Flitestreak Jr. Which flew very well, had the CG a bit forward of where the plans show.

Ryan Cooper · « **Reply #9 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:16:35 AM »

I am in the process of putting togather the TF ARF version. What props are you guys using for a set up with the OS25? Thanks

Stan Tyler · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2008, 11:59:48 AM »

Hi Ryan,

On my ARF Flight Streak (AKA the Doodle Streak), I use an APC 9-4 on a FP25.
Launch RPM is about 11,200 running in a wet 2 stroke. It gives me 4.9 - 5.0 sec lap times on 60' lines.

Regards,
Stan

Just One-eye · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2008, 07:23:07 PM »

I built 2-3 dozen Streak "Clones" during 1963-1978, for local rules Slow Combat events -- mine were more like a Brodak Lightning Streak in wing structure than like either the TF kit or George's prototype, with the modification of the ribs being flattened out behind the spars, and having the spars moved rearward somewhat to extend the curved forward airfoil slightly before it straightened out.

I did that, because they were more or less self-jigging that way. When used with a 36X, or a Tigre C35, I balanced them pretty far back, about where a kit spar would've been (this was almost automatic, since I also added another inch and a half of tail moment). Matched to a more docile power choice, such as a Fox 25 3-bolt stunt engine, I added nose weight to bring the CG to about 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" back of the LE's front face.

Something about the differences in speeds made the rearward CG acceptable at a fast clip, and way too twitchy when flying more slowly. Hmm, OK, as to the immediate thing, I put an LA 25 on a TF ARF (didn't like that engine much, though), and used a 9-4. The speed was about right on 60' lines, although I didn't get a lap time number. I swapped to an OS Max "S" (the forerunner loop scavenged 25 before the FP), and was even much less well pleased. I have a three-bolt Fox 19 on it now.

Ryan Cooper · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:40:10 AM »

Quote from: Stan Tyler on June 25, 2008, 11:59:48 AM

Hi Ryan,

On my ARF Flight Streak (AKA the Doodle Streak), I use an APC 9-4 on a FP25.
Launch RPM is about 11,200 running in a wet 2 stroke. It gives me 4.9 - 5.0 sec lap times on 60' lines.

Regards,
Stan

Thanks Stan, I will go with the 9-4, sounds near perfect. As for as the OS .25 goes, I am so far pretty pleased. It was very easy to start and tune during break in. Look forward to getting this set up in the air!

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:55:32 AM »

I flew and ARF Streak with an LA25. Pretty much plug and play. Used a 9x4 any kind of prop. Flew it for a season and a half. It did the Beginner pattern quite well. Got me out of Beginner. Eventually the nose fell off. But I WOULD NOT concern myself with that. The mods necessary to firm up the nose add weight and complication. As for the CG. Never checked the cg.

Ryan Cooper · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2008, 03:35:56 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Moritz on June 26, 2008, 08:55:32 AM

I flew and ARF Streak with an LA25. Pretty much plug and play. Used a 9x4 any kind of prop. Flew it for a season and a half. It did the Beginner pattern quite well. Got me out of Beginner. Eventually the nose fell off. But I WOULD NOT concern myself with that. The mods necessary to firm up the nose add weight and complication. As for the CG. Never checked the cg.

Thanks Dennis, that is what I was hoping for.

Andrew Hathaway · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2008, 05:01:11 PM »

I'd be more concerned about the fuselage problem then any other issue. The FS wing will carry the weight of a normal profile fuselage, and the complexity shouldn't be a problem since building a profile fuselage is an easy task. It's MUCH easier, and faster to just toss the kit fuselage and cut a new one NOW then it would be to graft a new nose onto the broken fuselage later. When you add in that a new scratch built fuselage can be cut to more modern dimensions, there's really no reason to use the fuselage that everyone knows will fail.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2008, 07:49:49 PM »

Mine hasn't failed. The setup is so light, I fly mine with a Fox 15BB. I bet an OS15 would also work---and wouldn't stress the fuse.

Someone once said build to fly, not to crash!

Of course if it is to be used as a trainer, then I would agree to put on a new plank for the fuse.

Andrew Hathaway · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2008, 02:09:42 AM »

The nose on mine didn't fail in a crash. Had it been crash damage it wouldn't have bothered me nearly as much. It developed cracks under the monokote after about 6 flights. The only reason I noticed was funny noises coming from the engine in flight, leading to a close inspection. I hit the cracks with thin CA and flew it a few more times. Later after flying off pavement and having problems I went to address the landing gear problem. I drilled out the LG mounting hole and was in the process of tapping in a piece of brass tubing to bush the hole, and the entire nose from the wing forward FELL OFF. It's a design flaw that can be blamed on the arf's doublers that have been cut well short of the original kits, and the fuselage being constructed too lightly, and the stress on a weak area. The nose stayed stuck to the wing, and the balsa under the ply stayed stuck to the ply, it just broke right past the plywood.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2008, 02:49:44 AM »

The ARF Streak fues is hollow. Made up of sheet balsa. Part of the reason the bird is light. The LA25 I used didn't stress the fues that much. Allowing the plane to be light and fly true for a season and a half of regularly flying. Yes, the ply doublers create a nasty stress area, since they do not go back over the high point of the wing. Perhaps it would be a good idea to remove the covering at the end of the doublers in order to reinforce the area (a couple of inches in either direction) with carbon fiber and epoxy or fiber glass and epoxy. Beyond that you'd need a major rebuild of the front half of the plane since the entire structure is built light duty - the fues hollow much of the distance forward of the plywood doubler/wing joint, might even be hollow, right up to the rear of the motor mounts. Part of the virtue of this ARF is it's lightness. IMHO reinforcing the fues with a major rebuild would detract from the easy fly nature of this compromised bird. Using an LA 25 or lesser modern engine should be within the structural tolerances of this plane. My Streak that was flown a lot over a year and half was fine until it was pull tested at a contest. The pull tester did not support the plane adequately during the test. I heard a cracking sound when the weight was applied. After flying a beginner pattern, the plane was landed and came to stop. The nose broke off on landing. Even this heavily used plane would have survived longer, if I'd been more careful during the pull.

ray copeland · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2008, 08:26:08 PM »

FS ARF # 2 , 2 inches long on tail and i inch on the nose than original , flew great, maybe a tad noseheavy.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 30, 2008, 05:37:01 AM »

Good Job on the rebuild Ray! I think you'll like the longer fuse. Did you add another 1" to the nose?, or just 2" to the tail?
My FS Rev1 survived weekend number 2 .... probably have 30 flights on it, with not a problem. It flies good, but once the wind comes up it gets alittle unstable. I have to make sure that any stunt I do is directly downwind. Lines will go slack on me, which I've slowly been working on. The plane is way too heavy though...
I've started FS Rev2. The wing is finished and nicely repaired, and now the fuse has started taking shape. This is were some changes from Rev1 will take place. Its gonna be ALOT lighter, but still rugged enough to take abuse. All the things I learned from Rev1 are going to make Rev2 a great flier ... or so I believe. LOL!

I'll post pics as I go along. FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Andrew Hathaway · « **Reply #21 on:** June 30, 2008, 12:44:16 PM »

Dennis,

First off the entire fuselage is hollow. It's not just hollow up to the motor mounts, its hollow all the way to the nose above and below the motor mounts. There is a vertical 1/8 x 3/8" former between the mounts behind the engine cutout, and a piece of 3/8" square at the rear of the mounts, but there is air all around the wanna-be hardwood. The only part that is really solid is a apprx 1" square chunk of 'hardwood' at the landing gear location.

Stripping, reinforcing with carbon fiber, etc is going to be more difficult, probably cost more, and be less beneficial then just building another fuselage from 1/2" sheet with realistic dimensions. Yes it takes away from the appeal of 'take it out of the box and put it together' but then that appeal isn't worth much when the plane isn't going to last very long.

You say a modern engine shouldn't be a problem. I agree, it shouldn't be a problem, but it is. I was running a 20fp, how can you get much more modern then that? I doubt a 25LA is any smoother running then a 20fp.

It's annoying to have to fix a plane that didn't get crashed, but what I'm more worried about is the nose coming off one of these ARF Flite Streaks while the engine is running and someone is in the line of fire. Considering this is an entry level plane, and an ARF, the chances are pretty good it's going to get crashed, and the nose is the glass jaw. Your point is valid, if you treat it with kid gloves it MIGHT hold together for awhile, but who's going to treat an entry level, throw away ARF with kid gloves?

ray copeland · « **Reply #22 on:** June 30, 2008, 07:32:54 PM »

Larry , on the rebuild, i added 1 inch to the nose and 2 inches to the tail, worked out to put the cg about 1 1/4 inches behind the leading edge, maybe a bit noseheavy but flew really well, maybe the extra power of the la 25 helped,, FS #1 sported a .20 FP, also used 3 degree outward thrust on the engine, the tank is a 3oz hayes which only holds a little over 2 oz, figure that one out ! Also on the tank , silicone or neoprene would not give enough flexiblilty with that little weighted pickup so i used latex inside the tank, helped a lot burned all the fuel. Used Landing gear from Brodack , split in the middle with a little piece of copper tubing to support, broke on landing, ( a smooth landing), not broke apart but loose, will replace when it gets too sloppy. Overall was very happy with the maiden flight, did all the stunts and just flew very well. Will try to salvage wing from FS #1 and rebuild about the same way. Prop is 9x4 , muffler bolts kept backing out on first bench tests, used new ones from another motor and used threadlock, will try to find cap head screws this week the philips heads were too hard to try to tighten enough!

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #23 on:** June 30, 2008, 07:35:44 PM »

A flimsy front end, agreed. Mine lasted, however, through a season and a half of regular flying with an LA25. Probably would have gone longer if the pull tester grabbed the fues differently. Easy enough to cut a new fues. When opened up the original fues looks scary. Hard to believe that little wood holds up as well as it does. Still fiberglass and epoxy or carbon veil and epoxy applied to the nose and wing/fues joint should hold up for quite a while. If done correctly, doubt the nose would pull loose. Maybe the majority of these Streaks crash early on, making long term viability moot. Yeah, I'd probably cut a new fues, if I ever bought another one of these ARFs. A club member bought one of these assembled with an LA40 on the nose. The $100 price, too low to resist. Great fun for half a season. When... the nose flew off with the plane in flight. We laughed it off, thought it great stupid fun. Nevertheless, it's a hazard.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 01, 2008, 05:33:49 AM »

Ray - You sound like me with the FS#1 and #2's ... LOL! Do you know what your laptimes are? On level flight, I just count off 'mississipi 1, mississippi 2' etc .... I'm right at 5 second laps and seems to do well. I did something very similar with the landing gear ... its from HobbyZone-Electric Aero Extreme. All prebent, and I just has to cut it in half. I epoxied a 5/16" wood dowel into the fuse, drilled the holes and stuck the gear into the fuse. Attached it with lil' aluminum straps and screws. I mounted the gear just forward of the leading edge, and I've learned to mount the gear BEFORE installing the wing. There is so little room to work in that area once the wing is installed.

Among some other things I just got from Brodaks, I'm going to try a 4oz standard vent wedge tank this weekend. I've been using a sullivan clunk tank mounted inboard .... its worked well, but always fuel left after a flight. Gotta figure out which tubes are which on the Brodak though .... LOL! I think the top one is pressure, the bottom overfill, and the middle to the carb. I think ....

I got the hole cutout in the fuse last night for REV #2 ... still one of the time consuming parts of the fuse.

Try a 9x6 prop if your laptimes are slow ... I love my 25LA with that size.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 01, 2008, 05:37:16 AM »

Ray - Forgot to mention ..... my CG is right on the wing spar. Thats about 3" back from the LE. I was surprised the plane flies as good as it does, what with all the comments about the FS's CG position.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 04, 2008, 05:00:11 PM »

I tried out the Brodak 4oz Wedge Standard Vent fuel tank today. Once I got the centerline of the tank correct, the plane flew pretty well! For some reason, I'm getting longer flight times than the 4oz Sullivan Clunk. I'll have to get used to the wedge style .... the motor just abruptly dies when out of fuel. The clunk tank always gave me warnings for 5-6 laps.

http://www.pbase.com/lakebiker/image/99674340

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Ryan Cooper · « **Reply #27 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:01:44 AM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on July 04, 2008, 05:00:11 PM

I tried out the Brodak 4oz Wedge Standard Vent fuel tank today. Once I got the centerline of the tank correct, the plane flew pretty well! For some reason, I'm getting longer flight times than the 4oz Sullivan Clunk. I'll have to get used to the wedge style .... the motor just abruptly dies when out of fuel. The clunk tank always gave me warnings for 5-6 laps.

http://www.pbase.com/lakebiker/image/99674340

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

That is a sweet looking plane Larry! I am using the stock tank for now, but am planning on getting Brodak tanks soon.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 08, 2008, 01:51:11 PM »

Thanks Ryan -- I'm told the plane looks pretty cool in the air, too. LOL! I've never seen it from the outside of the circle .... its so sensitive that I dont dare let anyone fly it. (I'm the only one at my club flying C/L ... so I'm the most experienced.

)

I ditched the stock tank real quick .... no time to practice any stunts. Seemed as soon as I got up and comfortable, it would run out. On sunday, I went up on a FULL 4oz tank (Brodak Wedge) and started my timer ...... 12 minutes, 45 seconds. I thought it would never run out .... Hahaha!

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

Ryan Cooper · « **Reply #29 on:** July 09, 2008, 08:34:34 AM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on July 08, 2008, 01:51:11 PM

I ditched the stock tank real quick .... no time to practice any stunts. Seemed as soon as I got up and comfortable, it would run out. On sunday, I went up on a FULL 4oz tank (Brodak Wedge) and started my timer ...... 12 minutes, 45 seconds. I thought it would never run out .... Hahaha!
FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

12 minutes, now that is what I call a flight!

Author Topic: Flight Streak ARF (Read 3422 times)

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn