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Author Topic: P40 Delays  (Read 1790 times)

Offline Dick Pacini

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P40 Delays
« on: September 17, 2010, 07:51:26 PM »
Well, as I previously posted, I received my new Brodak P40 ARF on August 24.  This plane was intended to get me in the air before flying season is over, since my building shop is not yet ready.

I have to say, the kit was impressive and the parts seemed to be well assembled.  I did notice that the horns weren't soldered on both sides, not really a big issue.  I could fix the horns or have them replaced.

I did find a soft spot in the wing, that appeared to be a crack in the LE sheeting and the rib below it.  I also discovered that the controls in the wing would bind up under certain conditions.  I notified Brodak and after considering and discussing options, John elected to send me a new wing with a UPS call tag for return of the old one.  Good service!

Sadly enough, the new wing arrived yesterday and I found that at least one of the inboard wingtip ribs was crushed.  I didn't even have it out of the bubble wrap before I found it.  I don't know if it happened in manufacture or subsequent handling and shipping.  It is a shame since these models are very attractive and I am told they fly very well.

I think the problem is that the wood used is so doggone light that it makes for a fragile airframe.  I have 3 scratch built stunters in the basement that are 37 years old and none has a broken rib or LE sheeting.  Yes, there are holes in the silkspan and the profile fuselage on one is snapped in half, but these planes have been packed up and moved a couple of times and no undue care was given them.  Admittedly, they weigh more than the P40 because the wood I picked was heavier and stronger.

So, the replacement wing is on its way back to PA as of today.  I am sure the problem will be resolved soon. 
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, 09:28:55 PM »
As long as it's straight and a reasonably easy fix (thin CA will do a lot of tricky stuff!), I think you're way better off fixing any minor damage. We all crunch stuff in the shop, during construction, after all. It's part of the job description to fix those boogers.  H^^ Steve
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 12:42:01 PM »
So true, I have done more damage in the shop/basement working on planes.  Even put a door knob thru a stunt wing loading up for a  contest one year.  Yes the worst damage is done at the field when I forget to give enough control or too much control.  I also now realize that super light wood is not good for me.  I use a lot of CA putting parts back together while building. H^^
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 12:03:20 PM »
Quote from: Steve Helmick on September 17, 2010, 09:28:55 PM
As long as it's straight and a reasonably easy fix (thin CA will do a lot of tricky stuff!), I think you're way better off fixing any minor damage. We all crunch stuff in the shop, during construction, after all. It's part of the job description to fix those boogers.  H^^ Steve

I agree with Steve, doubt you will get a perfect one and still a good deal for the price. Remember these things go from truck to boat to truck then get shipped to you. Plenty of opportunity for shipping/hanger rash.
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 12:52:26 PM »
I am considering repairing the original wing at this point, but will see what Brodak has to say.  I am curious if anyone has received an ARF that didn't need repair, not to include control changeouts, since that is elective.  I am referring to the basic structure of the plane.

If I had a hobby shop nearby, it wouldn't be a big issue.  If I need a little piece of balsa to make a new part or beef up a broken one, I am out of luck. 
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 01:02:57 PM »
Quote from: Dick Pacini on September 20, 2010, 12:52:26 PM
I am considering repairing the original wing at this point, but will see what Brodak has to say.  I am curious if anyone has received an ARF that didn't need repair, not to include control changeouts, since that is elective.  I am referring to the basic structure of the plane.
I've only built one ARF, ever.  It was a World Models AT-6 that was built just fine but had a whopping big design flaw: there were no dihedral braces where you joined the outer panels to the center section.  The directions had you slathering balsa ribs with epoxy and just butting these 18" panels to the center section which ended a few inches out from the fuselage.

I think I spent as much time putting the braces in after the fact as I would have to make a new wing!
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If I had a hobby shop nearby, it wouldn't be a big issue.  If I need a little piece of balsa to make a new part or beef up a broken one, I am out of luck. 
When I was in that situation I made sure to have lots of extra wood on hand at all time -- I had a notion of what I needed, and I always ordered extra wood when I made my devotions to Montezuma (Iowa, that is).  Of course, I never got everything I needed, so I did keep the UPS guy busy.

Keep those old kits -- it's amazing what you can do with the scrap.
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Offline Russ Danneman

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2010, 02:43:08 PM »
my p40 arf came from sams stuff &hobbies . no damage at all delivered by fed x

















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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2010, 02:49:17 PM »
Some of us that have been building for years and have more scrap balsa than (I'm guessing) most have in the new pile. We probably tend to forget not everyone has the resources at had that we do. To us a broken rib or cracked sheeting isn't a big deal at all and tend to just fix it and go on.

I've put together 3 Noblers, two Scores, an ARF T-Rex and an ARC T-Rex, used an ARF P-40 wing in my own fuselage, a Cardinal, a Super Clown and am probably forgeting at least one ARF or ARC I've done. Can't remember a single one that I didn't have to fix something on. Broken ribs and wing tips were the most common, to me no big deal and most were 10-15 minute fixes.

Hard for me to fathome someone not having enough scrap or new balsa and plywood laying around to almost build a whole wing if necessary. I would go into withdrawals if I couldn't reach into a scrap box most of the time and pull out just the piece I needed. Please don't take this as a personal attack, it isn't... I'm just flabbergasted by anyone in this hobby saying they have to go to a hobby shop for a rib size piece of 1/16 balsa  :)
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2010, 03:15:40 PM »
Quote from: Bob Reeves on September 20, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
I'm just flabbergasted by anyone in this hobby saying they have to go to a hobby shop for a rib size piece of 1/16 balsa  :)
Well, if you do enough scratch building sooner or later all of your rib-thickness balsa is going to be reduced to flinders that are too small to make a rib out of.  That's either a sign that you need to go to the hobby shop or that you need to build planes for all those 049s, I suppose.
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2010, 03:32:21 PM »
Bob, I was extremely involved in CLPA in the late 60's to mid 70's.  It was almost the center of my existance.  I traveled far and wide to attend contests.  I competed in the NATS 3 times and the King Orange once. I had one of my designs published in FM.  I had a fully stocked workshop with just about every gadget and supply you could hope for.

In 1976, I was promoted to a new job that moved me from Michigan to New Hampshire.  I had to retire from modeling completely to focus on a new job, new home and settling my family into a very different lifestyle.  There were no hobby shops, no CL fliers, no flat place to fly.  I brought 3 airplanes with me and they have sat since then.  I moved again in 2004 and ended up tossing everything out except the planes, which have severe hangar rash.

Last year, I got the bug again to fly PA.  I have dropped over 2 grand for stuff, including new engines and high end kits.  I have been in the process of trying to get a building area in part of the basement, but am not there yet.  My wife's antique collection has priority and we have been thinning our individual herds for months to gain space.

So, after that long explanation,  I have accrued just about everything but wood and covering material, all through web sales from hobby supply shops around the country.  I bought the ARF P40 to try and get in the air before the weather totally goes New England on me, since it doesn't look like I will be able to build anything for some time.  In short, lack of a piece of wood is a stumbling block now, although the day will come when it won't be.
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2010, 03:45:18 PM »
Understand, I was there when I first started back also, won a TF Flight Streak off eBay and built it. My saving grace was a local club with members willing to give or loan you anything needed at a moments notice. I'm spoiled and blessed by being a member of the Tulsa Gluedobbers.

Also, guess I'm a hoarder, probably need an intervention. When I order for a project I always order what I think I might need plus a fudge factor plus a just-in-case factor plus a just-because-I'm-ordering factor and sometimes I add the balsa for that someday project that I keep ordering for but end up using for something else.  HB~>
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2010, 10:10:31 PM »
Hi Dick,

Sorry to hear about your ARFs minor wing damage. Your ARF P-40 should get you in the air in a few days, so you can still fly in the nice early fall WX. There is no reason for delay due to the lack of balsa for minor repairs. There are several other materials that have been used to build good flying models. Ones I have used:

1. Foam. for minor repairs, any kind of scrap Styrofoam will do. From any packaging, insulation sheets, etc. It is light, strong and easy to shape. I have 30 lb. planes that have all foam ribs.

2. Corrugated cardboard from any box. Ribs don't have to be very strong, they are really there more to hold a shape than provide any strength.

3. Foam board. A great model building material. Stationary stores have it, and many other stores as well. I have had several planes built entirely out of it.

4. Corrugated plastic sign material. Any sign shop sells it, and/or will have scrapes that will work. Find a store that sells "For Sale" signs, they are often made from this, so are many real estate signs. In LV we used this to make some good flying RC combat planes. VERY easy to work with, fuel proof, strong, and relatively light.   

I'm sure there are others. Please don't let a minor repair hold you up. Of course, you can always replace your wheels with skis and fly all year round!  n~

The ARF P-40 is an excellent plane. I am very happy with mine.

Regards,  H^^
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 03:13:32 PM by Rudy Taube »
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 10:46:16 PM »
Received an email from John Brodak tonight, advising that they are sending out another wing.   #^
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: P40 Delays
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 01:59:20 PM »
UPDATE!

Replacement wing #2 arrived today without damage.  I haven't taken it out of the plastic bag yet, but it looks to be without flaw.  No crushed ribs or cracked sheeting.

I want to say that the good folks at Brodak's did everything they could to resolve the unfortunate issues with the original and replacement wings.  They can count on me being a steady customer.

In truth, I have dealt with several on-line model aircraft companies in the past year and can honestly say I have received top notch service and quality products from all.  This niche market of ours is so fortunate to have these resources, since the LHS is a dying breed.
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