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Author Topic: Cardinal ARC Engine Question  (Read 2423 times)

Offline Jim Treace

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Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« on: August 09, 2007, 02:51:40 PM »
I have read the recent posts on the Cardinal ARF/C and suggested mods. Very helpful. I just received my Brodak Cardinal ARC and was impressed with the quality for an "out of the box" plane. Very nice work. Didn't take long to get it all together. As this is my first ARC(or F), I have always kit built, I have some questions that maybe some one can help.
I left the controls in place, except used carbon rod and ball links for the elevator.  I have a good ST51 that I would like to use, is it too much? (I also have a LA 40 and 46 that I could use.) About the engine mounting. I have not used the engine bolt hold down plates before. Should I put an aluminum plate on the wood surface that the engine will rest upon? If I do this, I would suspect that it would slightly change the thrust line. Any issues here? Also, will an engine offset work with this type set up?
Thanks for any help.
Jim
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Jim Treace
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Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2007, 03:07:15 PM »
Jim, one of the better combinations I ever had was a Cardinal ARF and an LA46. I would say that the ST G-51 I assume you quoted would be to heavy. LA-46 is the way to go. We have several people flying that combo here in Cleveland. I dont get excited about the engine clamp system. I would rework for standard blind nut mount. Engine offset via a pad or rudder offset but both at the same time is not required.
Wayne Buran
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Wayne Buran
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2007, 03:31:11 PM »
Wayne:
Thanks. I was a bit concerned with the weight of the ST G51, so I'll go with the LA 46. Also, re-work the mounts with std. blind nuts. Information greatly appreciated.
Jim
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Jim Treace
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2007, 05:46:40 PM »
Great airplane for that ST 46 you have been hording for the last 5 years just because someday you wanted to use it on something  ;D
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Offline Tom Dugan

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2007, 08:13:52 PM »
I had a Cardinal ARF and used a Brodak 40, 11-4 prop, 10% 1/2 castor - 1/2 syn.  I was impressed with the plane and engine.  Great line tension on 60 ft lines. 

I let my son fly it on Father's Day...he did a perfect wing over except the pull out.  The plane was splinters.  I just knew that the crank had to be pushed out the back of the engine.  Checked the engine and all was fine "takes a licking and keeps ticking."  Im using it in my Pathfinder now.

TD
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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2007, 07:14:01 AM »
Jim - the Cardinal ARF/ARC will fly quite well with a number of different engines.

Most people prefer the LA .46, considering it a perfect match.

1/16 aluminum shims under the lugs is a very good idea as the hardness of the wood may vary a bit.

I am still flying ARF Prototype #1 (wire gear) and it has flown with a number of engines including the SAITO .30, SAITO .40, LA .46, Brodak .40 and the non-Surpass OS .40 four-stroke (my personal favorite). All engines gave acceptable performance but the .30 was really working. I just tried it out of curiosity.

I'm not sure which of the two ST .51s you have but I  feel that it is just too much for the plane. The ST .46 is a fine engine but does not, in my opinion, offer anything more than the LA .46.

Bob Z.

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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2007, 08:39:29 AM »
In my limited experience (two Cardinal ARF's) the ST 51 is more (weight, power, fuel consumption) than needed.

The ST requires lots of tail wt. and about 5.5 oz. of fuel for the pattern.

The LA 46 seems to be where the "curves cross" for the Cardinal.  One of my buddies has a Randy Smith LA 46 on his Cardinal, it looks to be a perfect match.

Jim
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2007, 09:05:45 AM »
Really great input. Thanks. I was a bit concerned that the ST G.51, I have is too big. I like the way it runs, but it is heavy and that stock muffler looks like a stove pipe! So, nice thing about the LA 40/46 is I believe that they both fit within the same engine mount holes. I can try them both without too much hassle. I will use the 1/16" alum shims, but due to the soft wood, I don't plan on recessing the aluminum shims. Any issues with my "plans?"
Jim   
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Jim Treace
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2007, 09:30:15 AM »
Everything sounds good, Jim.  I think if you stick the LA 46 in it, you will be very pleased from the git go.  Very friendly engine! (friendlier than the LA 40 in many peoples opinions).
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Big Bear <><

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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2007, 09:32:21 AM »
Good enough. I am set. Plenty of shop time, I am not going outside until October!
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Jim Treace
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AMA 855251 "Too soon we grow old...Too late we grow wise"

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2007, 11:37:19 AM »
Sounds like a plan! ;D

I just noticed that the "Weather" box under my name isn't current!  It is officially 105 here, in the shade! LOL!!  Don't EVEn want to look at the heat index. ;D
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Big Bear <><

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Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2007, 09:22:04 PM »
Jim,
I hope we can get you out before October. You need to come to the Memphis Stunt Classic in Sept.

I would say the LA 46. It lighter then the LA 40 and more power. Ryan has one on his Tutor II and it is a one flip start.

I am scratch building a Cardinal so maybe I will have mine the next time we meet.

Keep us posted.
Paul H^^
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2007, 11:17:58 AM »
Paul:
LA46, it is! My plan is to be in Tenn entire month of Sept. So, I will stay in touch for a get-together. When is the MEM Stunt Classic? My fleet(Smoothie,FS,Cardinal), should be usable. And if I can get the grass to grow on the new flying field, maybe you and family/friends can come up for a day. I'll keep you posted on this off line.
Jim
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Jim Treace
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AMA 855251 "Too soon we grow old...Too late we grow wise"

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2007, 06:34:42 AM »
Quote from: Jim Treace on August 11, 2007, 11:17:58 AM
Paul:
LA46, it is! My plan is to be in Tenn entire month of Sept. So, I will stay in touch for a get-together. When is the MEM Stunt Classic? My fleet(Smoothie,FS,Cardinal), should be usable. And if I can get the grass to grow on the new flying field, maybe you and family/friends can come up for a day. I'll keep you posted on this off line.
Jim
Jim,
The Memphis Stunt Classic is Sept 14-16.
Here is a link to the flyer.

http://www.millingtonbarnstormers.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/memphis-stunt-classic-2007.doc

Hope to see you there.
Paul H^^
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Offline Jim Treace

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Re: Cardinal ARC Engine Question
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2007, 08:05:53 AM »
Paul:
Thanks, I should be able to make this. I'll keep in touch.
Jim
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Jim Treace
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL &
Paris, TN
AMA 855251 "Too soon we grow old...Too late we grow wise"

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