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Author Topic: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?  (Read 7517 times)

Offline RknRusty

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Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« on: August 20, 2015, 08:58:43 PM »
Blown off the top of turn 3 on the clover, ended like this:

The crutches snapped off at the rear engine bolts.






I know how to fix this.
Hinges on both flaps were broken. And the outboard wing is broken somewhere at the LE. At the root for sure but probably inside too.


It was just sitting on its wheels like nothing was wrong, with the nose 3' in front of it.
It had been a quality flight up until this. I had won 3rd and 2nd with this plane, I was hoping for first and booted soon.
Very disappointing.
Rusty
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 10:25:46 AM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 10:06:27 PM »
That's a nasty, nasty place for a break.

Is it an ARF?  If the motor mounts aren't maple, and if that firewall is the plywood it looks to be, I'd be very tempted to put an RC motor mount on it and go fly.  If it's a real built plane and those mounts ARE maple, then I'm blowing smoke and you should remove the firewall, trim the mounts back on an angle that gives you about two inches of fresh surface, then splice on a new crutch.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 03:13:24 AM »
It's an ARF. Dang, Tim, such a simple solution, I'll look at that idea. I don't know what kind of wood they are, but one of them smelled like mouthwash when I drilled it. I may add another layer of ply and bolt it up. I will investigate the wing and see how bad it really is. This might be an easier fix than I thought. I can stitch new hinges if the wing can be fixed... which I'm pretty sure it can.
Thanks.
Rusty
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 04:13:59 AM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 09:24:41 AM »
I feel your pain.

Phil

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2015, 10:23:31 AM »
Thanks Phil. I am optimistic now, as you'll see in my thread on CEF. I think in a week of evenings I'll have it fixed if the wing doesn't stop me.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2015, 11:13:39 AM »
I'd echo Tim's suggestion to just cut it flush and go with a RC style mount.  

This might be overkill, but you might epoxy another piece of 1/8 plywood (not lite-ply) to the existing face and if you can get in there, some triangle gussets to the backside of the face.  The use of some 'glass cloth to bolster everything would be appropriate.

It wouldn't be all that pretty, but it would get you back in the air quickly.  It is an ARF afterall.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2015, 10:37:35 PM »
Ty, that would be a great solution, but I'm going with the RC mount for the sake of speed. I want this plane for Huntersville and need to be flying it weeks before the contest. In fact I'm already set up to do exactly what Brent suggested. Brent, it's easy to get to both sides of the firewall. I agree, another 8th of ply and some triangle stock as gussets  with a wrap of fiberglass all the way around the outside.

The part I have more concern about is the wing. It looks like it's just sheeting outside the fuse that's cracked. But I'm going to cut out enough of the bottom cap to get a look inside to make sure. It passes the pull test and then some, so that's a good sign. And I will fix the cracks with fiberglass and epoxy. It had been cracked in the same area once before when I ran out of gas in the V8 and hit the tarmac in H'ville on a fun fly day in July. Those are the only two times this one had prematurely landed.

All I want is one more contest out of this bird and I'll move on. I have a beautiful old I-beam that Bob Zambelli gave me to repair some hangar rash and recover, and I'll add that to my fleet this winter. It's called Piuma, Italian for Feather. As of now, I'm flying a Nobler ARF as my backup.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2015, 08:11:11 AM »
Hope you get the plane back in the air Rusty...is that the Oriental?
Want to see it in the air in October.
Shug
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2015, 10:23:53 AM »
Hope you get the plane back in the air Rusty...is that the Oriental?
Want to see it in the air in October.
Shug
Hi Shug, unfortunately that is the Oriental. I learned something about crash recovery from this incident... get eyes-on before beginning the rescue trot. It was a thermal, I think, that I flew into behind my head at the top of clover turn 3, and it was suddenly out of sight, like it had been swatted with a broom. I ran blind and caught it once. Then must've flown back into the li'l twister and caught it again blind, and had to hope I pulled the right line. 50/50 chance... I never was a lucky gambler. Yes it could crash while I'm trying to get eyes on it, but maybe that's the percentage move. Especially that high up.

I'm really looking forward to seeing you in Stuntersville... and showing you the Oriental. She's been in two contests already, and I fly her well, though I think I'm behind you, I am very happy with my learning curve this summer. I'm now working on details; posture, bottoms, intersections. I think it will be a quick fix. I'll have the motor mount this evening and will get focused on it this week. I'm off to fly the Rescue Nobler this afternoon.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 08:08:03 PM »
Ty, that would be a great solution, but I'm going with the RC mount for the sake of speed. I want this plane for Huntersville and need to be flying it weeks before the contest. In fact I'm already set up to do exactly what Brent suggested. Brent, it's easy to get to both sides of the firewall. I agree, another 8th of ply and some triangle stock as gussets  with a wrap of fiberglass all the way around the outside.

The part I have more concern about is the wing. It looks like it's just sheeting outside the fuse that's cracked. But I'm going to cut out enough of the bottom cap to get a look inside to make sure. It passes the pull test and then some, so that's a good sign. And I will fix the cracks with fiberglass and epoxy. It had been cracked in the same area once before when I ran out of gas in the V8 and hit the tarmac in H'ville on a fun fly day in July. Those are the only two times this one had prematurely landed.

All I want is one more contest out of this bird and I'll move on. I have a beautiful old I-beam that Bob Zambelli gave me to repair some hangar rash and recover, and I'll add that to my fleet this winter. It's called Piuma, Italian for Feather. As of now, I'm flying a Nobler ARF as my backup.
Rusty

    Be very careful about the potential hidden damage to the wing. Pay particular attention to the bellcrank mount security. Given that, you probably have to cut access holes in the fuselage. I would suggest, with the nose already off, and major surgery pending, that you just ditch the fuselage and build a new one. It should take about an evening to disassemble the old parts, and another evening to build a new fuselage. And this time you will know it is built correctly with proper materials AND that the wing is solid.

    Brett

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 02:58:16 PM »
Brett, thanks for the input.

That sort of speed rebuilding is outside my skill set. I've not built a full fuse plane yet, though I've watched dave Tribble, Bob Hunt, et al., here on the Hangar. I'd be using techniques for the first time and it would never go as fast, or finish as elegantly as you suggest. I have the ability to get good at it, but I'm not there yet. And given the time frame I need to repair and re-trim, I'll have to buck the expert advice and do a high quality hack job.

I mean it when I say thanks for the advice though, because I had winning results while following your profile methods in my earlier stunt days... last Summer.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 03:58:46 PM »
I don't think I could build as fast as Brett can, either.  However, if you stick to a fuselage with a rectangular cross-section, or a rectangular cross-section and a trapezoidal or triangular turtle deck (think Ugly Stik), you could toss something together pretty fast.  It doesn't have to look good to fly well.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Broken nose. Anyone know how to fix this?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 10:27:52 PM »
I started work on it tonight. I have a Dave Brown mount that fits perfectly. But first, the wing.
It passed the pull test without so much as a creak. I did it three times, pulling slightly over the legal pull. That's a relief.

The controls seem fine and free except the flaps are shifted slightly so one is almost touching the fairing and the other has a wider gap. I'm not sure why, but they move freely and are still coupled with no new slop anywhere. It might be because of all the busted hinges, but I'll cut them flush with the edges and stitch new ones. My wire flap hinge retainers are all in place and not bent.

The fuselage had some cracks above the wing root on the side of the fuselage. I pressed them all into place and soaked them with thin CA. The outboard wing has cracked sheeting on the bottom causing it to sag. Same area as the cracks from it's previous deadstick collision with the pavement. I sprung the cracks open some more in order to align the wing. I'm not too sure how that came to be, but I inserted a 1/32 strip of balsa to hold it in place and tacked it with CA. It's aligned now, so tomorrow, I'll finish the area with more shims and fiberglass.

Here she is right now:

The fuselage cracks. The lengthwise one is invisible.


This is the underside of the outboard wing. There is a shim in that crack, but it's not very visible in the picture.


Top view. No cracks in the sheeting there, but the fiberglass is going to wrap around from the underside to partially cover it. I wish I had some lighter glass, but all I get around here is medium weight. But it's good and strong, just unsightly and a bit heavy.


And how's this look for alignment.


I hope to finish the wing tomorrow so I can start figuring how to use the engine mount. I thought of trying to bolt it to the inside of the firewall, so only the beams protrude through the front of the firewall, if it doesn't change the height of the engine. But the old crutches might interfere with that. Otherwise, bolted in front, the engine may be a little farther forward than it was. I hope to figure some way to keep it the same. I have some extra room behind the tank, so I could saw the nose off shorter and make a new firewall. We shall see. I'll let y'all know what I do.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com


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