Author Topic: ARF/ARC for OS .46 VF/pipe (Read 3579 times)

Ward Van Duzer · « **on:** October 08, 2008, 01:59:30 PM »

Not having paid much attention to the ARF/ARC scene...Are there any out there suitable for for a VF / pipe application? Anything new coming along?

W.

EddyR · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2008, 01:42:45 PM »

Ward the Vector can be flown with .35 but it can also be set up to take a lot of power.The point is to be careful with is to get it to balance correct with out adding nose or tail weight. My Tempest 40 was built from a ARF Vector and I have a ST/46 in it and I think a ST/51 would work except for the weight of the motor. My Tempest weighs 52 ounces and fly like it weight 42.
Ed Ruane

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2008, 02:09:06 PM »

The Brodak Strega may be the only ARC/ARF available large enough for a .46VF. That a very strong engine. A SIG Magnum should be OK also, but it's not really an ARC/ARF even though it's a pretty quick build.

Ralph

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2008, 04:29:02 PM »

Ward,

I have a Score which was home to a Tom Dixon ST 51; presently powered by a PA 61 rear exhaust with header muffler. Power wise, I am very happy. The ST, while a great engine, just didn't have the torque for the area and weight (677 sq. in. 64 oz.)

The 46VF might also work on this plane...............

Cheers,
Jim

peabody · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2008, 07:00:56 PM »

Ward-O......The Score may be modified (a very little bit) to accept a tuna pipe and the 46 is adequate for power...
I think a Strega ARF requires a significant amount of re-work, and that the results will be far too porky to make you happy....Strega ARFs regularly tip the scales at 80 ounces and have THICK wings....

Brodak is about to release both the SV-11 and the Legacy. You might have heard of the SV....some guy in George designed it .... The Legacy makes a pretty fair tuna pipe plane as well....these are third generation ARFs and should be pretty nice.

Around these parts, Bill Hummel and Bill Suarez regularly whoop up on folks with Scores...Suarez has a tuna pipe and Hummel a side exhaust....

Marek Kozera · « **Reply #5 on:** October 15, 2008, 10:47:22 AM »

"Strega ARFs regularly tip the scales at 80 ounces" - my Strega ARC is 71 oz ready to fly (less fuel). I have covered wing and stab with plastic, fuss is dope+tissue. Power ROJETT 65 on pipe.
I think that Strega with VF46 on pipe will be marginal.
This is a really big plane with thick wing and needs big powerfull engine.

The best bet is to wait a few months for SV-11 ARC/ARF from Randy.

Marek

Jerry Tarnofsky · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2008, 11:06:39 AM »

Ward,

I built and ARF Vector with an RO-Jett 40 on pipe. Simply get an extra high header and hang the pipe
externally on the bottom. See picture. Had problems with flying mine, see the (ARF Vector problem thread)
but no problems at all with the engine/pipe setup. The OS 46 may be too strong.
Jerry

Greg L Bahrman · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2008, 02:57:53 PM »

Hi Jerry,
Where did you get the pipe and gear??...Thanks, Greg

Jerry Tarnofsky · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2008, 03:38:47 PM »

Hi Greg,

I got the setup from Bob Lampione 3 or 4 years ago. He had it NIB but wasn't going to use it.
I did have to call Richard Oliver to get the extra tall header. He happened to be at Dub Jett's
shop that day and I got to talk with both of them.

Right now I'm trying to find a low pitch prop with enough load to run on it. Broke the 3-blade 11.5 X 4
carbon prop when the original stunter crashed the Friday before Brodak last spring. My fault, the plane
was trimmed and running perfectly when I turned it the wrong way.

Just ordered an ACP 12.25 X 3.75.
Hoping that works. That engine puts out LOADS of power. Was running an APC 11.5 X 4 yesterday at 9500
RPM and it was doing 4.4 second laps with an 18" pipe lenth.

Jerry

Greg L Bahrman · « **Reply #9 on:** October 20, 2008, 06:53:56 PM »

Thanks Jerry

Marek Kozera · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2008, 01:49:14 PM »

Jerry,
APC 12.25X3.75 is a wide blade prop. It might be to big for your RO JETT 40. It is a very powerfull prop - I have been using it for PA51/IMPACT with pipe for two years now.

For your information my Legacy with VF40 w/pipe is very happy with APC 11.5X4 cut to 11.3" @10,800 RPM on ground (lines 65'6" eyelet to eyelet).

If someone doesn't like to play with CF props - like me - then APC 12.25X3.75 for 51 and APC 13X4 for 65 is a very good starting point.

Marek

Jerry Tarnofsky · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2008, 06:36:11 PM »

Maeck,

Thanks for the info. I just can't understand why my airplane was doing 4.4 laps at 9500 RPM (on the
ground) using an APC 11.5 X 4 prop. My lines are 63' eyelet to eyelet. Will try lowering the RPM until it
flies the right lap time and then adj the pipe length. The only thing I can think of is the flying RPM is much
faster than the ground setting.

It's getting cold in PA now and don't know when it will fly again.

Jerry

Greg L Bahrman · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:58:46 PM »

Yeah Jerry. I've been using the APC 12.25 X 3.75 on my ST51

Marek Kozera · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2008, 10:21:18 AM »

Jerry,

I wouldn’t try to lower the RPM - looks like your 9500 RPM are on the low side already for 40 w/pipe. If I were you I would get CF prop like the famous BOLLY 11.75x4.25 two blade and as per Paul Walker instructions cut it to 11.3” and start playing with the pitch – or if you want to stay with APC props then cut 11.5x4 APC to 11.3 and see what happens. Was your APC prop “new in box” when you bought it?
The reason is that APC prop can be pitched up or down using boiling water method – people are doing this (including me) to fine tune your run.
Another prop to try is APC11x3, and of course don’t be afraid to fly on longer lines.

Marek

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:52:09 PM »

I gotta wonder if your tachometer is reading correctly. Most can be checked on an incandescent or flourescent lightbulb...look for 3,600 rpm. The 60 cycles of our electrical grid is what makes that useful info, but some countries do use 50 cycles. They would read 3,000 rpm, I s'pect.

The SV-11 ARC would be perfect, but you'd probably have to install a pipe tunnel.

Steve

Marek Kozera · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2008, 02:07:13 PM »

Steve,
I was under impression that SV-11 is pipe ready?

Marek

Jerry Tarnofsky · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2008, 05:28:31 PM »

Hi Guy's,

Finally got the Vector fixed. Was a combination of pitching the Bolly prop to 11.25 X 3.75 and getting
the pipe to the proper length. Now flying at 5.2 laps at 10,000 RPM. Still needs some fine tuning but
that can wait until it's above fifty. Man was it cold out there today.

Jerry

steve pagano · « **Reply #17 on:** November 04, 2008, 10:17:31 PM »

I was planing to use this combo for a bit now and just got my Strega today! I checked how the engine fit and to me the OS 46 mounting holes are a little close to the edge of the mount but if i remember correctly the OS 46VF has the same mount dimensions as a P.A.65 Right??

If that is the case then i wont worry about that But as for enough power I'm pretty confident it will be fine. I had the same engine in my SV-22 that came in at 77 1/2 oz and with a little work it looks like the pipe will fit nice and snug in to the tunnel to be made.

Steve Pagano

Marek Kozera · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2008, 03:42:44 PM »

Steve,
One way to do the motor mounts is to use these four little steel tubes suplied with your Strega ARC. I did not have to use them for my ROJETT 65 - but if you look through instructions - Windy shows how to do it (same method is shown in the Strega construction DVD from Windy).

Marek

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:15:06 PM »

Looks like there are now three ARF/ARC options, with Brodak's SV-11, Legacy and UHP's ImpAct. All are apparently a little late in delivery, but what else is new? Any of the three would be sweet!

Steve

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:28:49 PM »

If I had a VF 46 RE and a pipe and was looking for an ARC, I'd be getting a UHP Impact.
Chris...

Brett Buck · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:33:29 PM »

Quote from: Chris McMillin on February 17, 2009, 04:28:49 PM

If I had a VF 46 RE and a pipe and was looking for an ARC, I'd be getting a UHP Impact.
Chris...

Certainly the ARF/ARC with the most potential, even more than the Vector, and perfect for a 46VF.

By the way, I had an opportunity to fly a Vector ARF with a RO-Jett 61. Amazing, and a 46VF would work on that as well.

Brett

bob branch · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:01:29 PM »

Brett

Well, that got my attention. Obviously it could be balanced but could you be more specific about the performance of a vector 40 with a .60 in it. What kind of propping was used? Were longer lines than we would normally fly a vector 40 with used? What kind of advantage did that much extra power offer to the plane?

Hope these don't sound like silly questions. Your post has sparked some considerable conversation between myself and some others locally. I have flown the vector 40 with aerotiger .36's for several years.

Thanks,

bob branch

Brett Buck · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:44:57 PM »

Quote from: bob branch on February 21, 2009, 08:01:29 PM

Well, that got my attention. Obviously it could be balanced but could you be more specific about the performance of a vector 40 with a .60 in it. What kind of propping was used? Were longer lines than we would normally fly a vector 40 with used? What kind of advantage did that much extra power offer to the plane?

I am merely the reporter/one of several test pilots, not the initiator of the idea. I am not fully comfortable discussing the details of someone else's experiment. But as implemented, the main effect was of remarkably constant speed, or, as put by another of the test pilots, "excellent pace" of the maneuvering. Even better than standard airplanes with the RO-Jett 61, which is noted for it's exceptionally good and consistent speed control.

Brett