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Author Topic: ARF Control Horns and Push Rods  (Read 1267 times)

Offline Dick Pacini

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ARF Control Horns and Push Rods
« on: September 08, 2010, 07:35:05 PM »
I recently received a new Brodak P40 and have the same issue (poor solder joint per Randy) with the horns.  They said if I could solder them, it would be good.  In the meantime, they have found others, so the new kits will be inspected and horns soldered as necessary.

I also have a control problem.  With the wing flat on the table, working the leadouts in and out results in a distinct catch and bind.  However, if the wing is hung vertically by the leadouts, which are worked in and out, the movement is smooth as can be.  This is without any flaps or horn.  Anybody have any ideas on that?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 03:55:51 PM by Dick Pacini »
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Offline Wynn Robins

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ARF Control Horns and Push Rods
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2010, 10:32:30 PM »
I recently received a new Brodak P40 and have the same issue with the horns.  They said if I could solder them, it would be good.  In the meantime, they have found others, so the new kits will be inspected and horns soldered as necessary.

I also have a control problem.  With the wing flat on the table, working the leadouts in and out results in a distinct catch and bind.  However, if the wing is hung vertically by the leadouts, which are worked in and out, the movement is smooth as can be.  This is without any flaps or horn.  Anybody have any ideas on that?

Sounds like the pushrod is binding  - if you put the flap horn on, the rod should clear the sheeting and problem solved
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Offline Dick Pacini

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ARF Control Horns and Push Rods
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 10:43:38 PM »
I have watched the pushrod and it is clear in the elongated hole in the sheeting.
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Offline Allan Perret

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ARF Control Horns and Push Rods
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2010, 06:02:11 AM »
Probably the leadout terminations at the bellcrank catching on a rib.
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: ARF Control Horns and Push Rods
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2010, 03:45:46 PM »
Further investigation revealed that the rod does indeed bind against the sheeting when the wing is laying flat.  The problem is that when the flap horn is connected and held in place while the leadouts are worked, the rod really binds, so cutting the hole in the sheeting larger won't help.  It seems that the fit between the bellcrank hole and the rod end is too snug to allow any movement up or down of the rod as it follows the operating arc of the horn lever.  I am going to guess that when the wing is hung by the leadouts, there is no bind because the bellcrank slides up or down on its pivot and that frees the rod up.

At this point, I am not sure the best thing to do.  I have two horns that need soldering and a wing that has a soft spot in the planking and a control problem.  I am reluctant to cut into a brand new wing.  Brodak is sending me some covering material, but offered to take the wing back for them to cut, repair and return.  They also asked if I would mind soldering the horns.  Tell you one thing, if I go into that wing, it is getting a Tom Morris ball link CF flap push rod and a differential flap horn.  I already have one for the elevators. (ball link CF push rod)

If I asked for a new wing and horns, they would probably comply.  I just want to get this plane assembled and in the air to see if I can even fly anymore.
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: ARF Control Horns and Push Rods
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2010, 11:09:26 PM »
Hi Dick,

Your correct, I'm sure John will make it right for you if you send the wing back, but I agree that the delay will be inconvenient for you because you probably bought the ARF so you could get in the air ASAP (before winter! ;-). ..... Therefore, to save you the delay time:

1. I would not worry about the soft spot in the wing sheeting. It is mostly there to hold the airfoil shape in the important 1st 25% of the wing. It does not add much strength, just a little stiffness. If it bothers you, just make a very small slit in the covering and apply a small amount of thin CA to the area then iron down the covering. Over the years I have put a few soft spots in my LE sheeting on my P-40, heavy fingers, hanger rash, etc. with no flying problems at all. I would not worry about it.

2. The small push rod between the BC and the flap horn is OK to use and the retainer clip works well, I am very surprised that it binds. Your analysis may be correct. Is there a way you can use two pliers to make a small bend in this short PR so that the angle going up to the flap horn is such that it relieves the bind? Mine works perfectly with no bind and no slop at all.

If this does not work, your ball link solution will be perfect. Don't worry about cutting into the wing. It won't hurt anything, just cut at a 45 and your surgery will barely show. To cover your scar, just use an ink line (or 1/16 trim tape) to outline a hatch, it is a military plane, and we had hatches all over them. ;-)

I used the stock short PR from the BC to the Flap horn, but used ball links and a CF PR to the EL horn. I used everything else stock on the plane, including the horns.

3. I would not bother replacing the horns, it may be more work than you need to do. A little solder should be easy. Mine were done a little more than 1/2 way around and I could not pull them apart while applying much more pressure than they will ever get in flight. They had more solder (or is it brazing?) material around them than the horns we used to get in CL kits in the distant past, (now these old ones were marginal looking!) and they held up fine. I would think that a few min. of soldering is easy and quicker than replacing the horns if they are already installed.

You will love this plane. My ARF P-40 has over 400 flights on it and it still flies great.   

Good luck, and please let us know how you make out. :-)

Regards,  H^^
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 11:31:22 PM by Rudy Taube »
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: ARF Control Horns and Push Rods
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 03:01:34 PM »
I just received an email from John Brodak.  He is sending me a new wing.  That is excellent service!
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