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Author Topic: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second  (Read 2055 times)

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« on: June 18, 2007, 06:06:02 PM »
at Brodak in Profile. Dan Banjok took first, Mike Palko second. Both were stock Arfs with the outboard tab bent down. Mike's converted to electric (of course.)
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 08:16:24 PM »
Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the info. Do you know which ARFs they were?  TIA
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 08:28:52 PM »
They were the Brodak P40 ARFs. This I believe is the third year in a row that a Brodak P40 ARF has won profile.
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2007, 01:12:46 AM »
Thanks Dennis,

That is good news. This is the P-40 that I fly with Elec. power. I'm glad to see that Brodak allowed Mike to fly an elec. powered plane in P-40. :-)

Regards,
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 03:13:24 AM »
Yeah, that's a good point. No electric motor is a .40 or less in displacement. At Brodak, they call the event "Profile" not P40. The specifications do not restrict engine displacement. You can quiz Mike Palko about the electric set up he used to come in second. He's still tuning the system in, even though it was obviously effective enough to be a winner.

Best
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 12:13:51 PM »
Quote from: Rudy Taube on June 19, 2007, 01:12:46 AM
Thanks Dennis,

That is good news. This is the P-40 that I fly with Elec. power. I'm glad to see that Brodak allowed Mike to fly an elec. powered plane in P-40. :-)

Regards,

I Rudy, The NW guys have dropped the "40" now for "Profile".  Is there anyone still using the ".40" displacement rule at meets??  Curious........

Bill <><
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2007, 02:14:25 PM »
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the info on the NW P-40 rules. Please see my post in the electric section RE: the enforcement of the old P-40 rules in Northern CA contests. Bummer that we have two different rules in the same state.

Regards,
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2007, 09:28:08 AM »
There is a move afoot here in So.Cal. to also drop the".40" requirement.  Probably will happen soon.  Also, the Knights are re-evaluating the no-flap bonus as being too high (25 pts).  I am recommending switching to a "no talent" bonus.    LL~ VD~ S?P
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Offline dave shirley jr

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2007, 01:47:06 PM »
Hi larry
according to rudy taube the p-40 rules have allready been changed in so cal?
or do we have a missunderstanding?
by the way there isn't 1cc at the goyet this year, sorry
Dave.
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2007, 10:01:33 PM »
Quote from: dave shirley jr on June 28, 2007, 01:47:06 PM
Hi larry
according to rudy taube the p-40 rules have allready been changed in so cal?
or do we have a missunderstanding?
by the way there isn't 1cc at the goyet this year, sorry
Dave.


Hi Dave,

I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. The following may help clear this up:

1. RE: the use of Electric power in P-40. The SoCal clubs and CDs have ruled Elec. is OK in P-40 for all contests this year and in the future.  :-)

2. RE: removing eng./motor size in P-40. Early in 2007, the Pres. and CD of one of the clubs approached several of us CDs and the Pres of KOTRC with the idea of aligning our P-40 rules with the rest of the SW and most of the rest of the USA. We all agreed that this is what we should do for 2008 on, and that it would be put to the club members for a vote. This process is ongoing, and like Larry said, it will probably happen soon. To my knowledge almost everyone is in agreement on the change to join the rest of the known world.  We are still unsure of what to  do about the remaining 2007 contests in our area. That decision will come soon also. My past comments on this subject were in the context of elec NOT being allowed in the P-40 contest in NorCal, and that it will be moot in the near future as we in SoCal, and hopefully elsewhere, do away with the size limits in this popular event. 

3. RE: P-40 being an "Unofficial" event. This makes it open to local/regional rules, interpertations, etc. Obviously this is good and bad. Good because it allows individual clubs, CDs, etc. to tailor the rules to fit their area flyers desires and needs. Bad because it prevents a standardization for people who want to travel to contests outside their area. Both sides of the isle have valid points. P-40 still remains a very popular event in our little state, even with two sets of rules.

4. RE: whether this rule change will mean the end of the civilized world as some on this forum have implied? I am not sure, but that should make for a subject/forum all by itself!   ~>

Regads,   H^^
« Last Edit: July 02, 2007, 10:45:06 PM by Rudy Taube »
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2007, 10:57:23 PM »
As the bad guy that made the official rules proposal for the NW Profile Stunt rulz, there were a few pretty good reasons for it. 1) Most folks couldn't punctuate the abbreviated title correctly (P.40), it usually was given as P-40, so too many folks thought a Curtiss Warhawk P-40 was mandatory. 2) The available and cheap OS .40LA-S is not as easy to make run right as the .46LA-S. 3) Some wanted to build twins and use .21FP's. 4) There was a likelyhood that somebody would eventually bring along an ARF Super Clown Electric and want to enter. 5) Somebody from out of area might come visit with a non-compliant engine and want to enter our contest.

Since the rule change, we have seen a lot of .46LA's, and one ST G.51, so far (3 contests). We don't expect a lot of .60 or bigger engines, but the Magnum .52/.53's could be interesting. Stiffness and vibration problems will probably limit the use of bigger engines. With our NW P.40 rules, it was perfectly legal to use a .40VF or PA .40 with pipe, but nobody did. I only know of two profiles in our area that had pipes, they were both OS .32FSR powered, and only one was used in a contest.  It seemed like the easy way to allow electrics is to defer the engine/motor rules to the AMA Stunt rules, so that's what I suggested, and it was accepted. 

Some are still complaining, but some will always complain. There hasn't been any change in airplanes used (many ARF/ARC), and other than bigger lines, business as usual. Does it make the dude with the old FS or Ringmasta with a Fox be at a disadvantage? Uh....well, he was at a disadvantage already.  n~ Steve

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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2007, 12:09:34 AM »
Hi Steve,

Thanks for the great post and clear explanation of the P.40 to P-40 transition. All 5 of your reasons are excellent, but #1 is my favorite!  #^

Like you, I see a lot of advantages, and very little downside. We are looking forward to having this popular event continue to grow here in SoCal.

BTW, you would be surprised to see how well Larry, Stan's, and my  DoodleStreaks fly. Stan took 1st in Expert P.40 against some very nice P.40 planes and many excellent pilots. This is a stock ARF Flight Streak with the BIG tail and a stock OS .25 (Dirty Dan would faint dead away if he heard that we were not using his sacred OS .20 ;-) We cut the big tail to look just like the stock ARF in shape. Larry's and Wild Bill's design flys as good as a "real" stunt ship. Pull outs and corners are sharp, with NO wobbles or bumps like the stock plane.

Again, thanks for the P.40/P-40 transition clarification. I hope all of our little state has the same rules some day.   S?P

Regards,  H^^
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Offline Ward Van Duzer

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2007, 11:49:22 AM »
One of the most important rules you folks have on the left coast is the EXPERT/SPORTSMAN classes. Without these there are way too many expert class flyers coming into profile (and OTS) and taking the little pieces of plastic away the youngsters, and the Sunday flyers. Maybe some day the rest of the country will realize what you've done out there.

I know, you eastern CD's are saying there are not enough flyers in these events to make it all worth while. (Would you like to fashion a guess as to why?)

W.
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Arf Arf for P40s winnning first and second
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2007, 06:52:06 PM »
Ward...yeah, we have the Sportsman/Expert option on our contests (it's up to the host club and CD), but the really serious Experts are not going to be flying Profile Stunt anyway. Howard doesn't even want to have the event at our contest, saying it detracts from the real deal events. Kind of an Elitist attitude, but kinda right. The airplanes are not stiff enough to fly as well as a full fuselage plane, especially in bad conditions. Most these guys don't want to sacrifice their ''muscle memory" (timing) for a shot at another piece of plastic, quart of dope, or gallon of fuel. After the NATS and Team Trials, Paul and Howard will loosen up a bit, and Paul will fly Classic. Howard will fly Combat. Sigh.... LL~ Steve     
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"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

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