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Building Tips and technical articles. => ARF'S => Topic started by: Bootlegger on September 21, 2016, 01:20:55 PM
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What kind of weight have you fellows been finding on the nobler arf's? I am wanting one light enough to fly with a Fox 35, and 57-58 foot lines.
Thanks a lot...
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Doubt you'll find a Nobler Arf that works well Fox 35 powered. I've seen one ARF Nobler powered by a Fox 35. Usually they are FP40 or LA40,46 powered. The Fox was slow, barely doing maneuvers. Poor corners. Almost no breeze. Flying was marginal. ARF Noblers are heavy.
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Dennis I respectfully disagree. I have two Nobler Arfs. The one with an OS 40FSR weighs 44oz. The one with an HP 40 weighs 43 oz. Both fly very nicely,but both required some tail weight to turn properly. A Fox 35 powered Nobler Arf should finish up in the 40 to 41 oz range and not need tail weight. I think that with a good running Fox on 10 to 15% fuel you'd have a very nice flying plane on 60' lines center line of plane to center line of handle....PhillySkip
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Skip. You could be right. But even Danny's Foxes, run hard, seem to be at their outer limit with a Galloping Comedian. A flapless stunter with a thinner airfoil than a Nobler. Probably lighter. Foxes run hard tho, have a surprising amount of power. Noblers were traditionally powered by Fox 35s. What if the Fox 35 was required to run with a muffler? Then again, tongue mufflers don't rob much power. Superfuel or a Superfuel like blend, would probably not generate the required power. In Philly we don't usually run that mix. As you know. We ought to try a Fox on a Barking Nobler. We certainly have plenty of them in our club. Out of curiosity I just weighted a very nice ARF Nobler I bought last year and have not flown. 48 ounces with a Thundertigre 40 in the nose. On the other hand, would a Fox 35 be near optimum. Can it be rung out to its limit and reliably power an ARF Nobler with modern power. Modern power meaning power comparable to a 1980s FP40.
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Is anyone out there running a Fox 35 on an ARF Nobler? The only Fox 35 ARF Nobler I ever saw fly, flew like the one I described above. Ski Dambrowsky's meticulously assembled example. I razzed him about it, in fact. Another question. Does anyone outside of the Philly Fliers run Fox 35s as hard as we do in stunt? These Foxes are often lapped and hand fitted, both piston/liner and crank/bushed journal. Come to think of it. Will a 40th anniversary, for instance, without extensive break-in (often they need lapping anyway) with it's tapered bore, survive hard running without freezing up?
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My friend Dennis has an os 25 la in one and I believe it was the late great Charlie that flew one with a fox 35. I flew both and liked them. Had enough power I thought on 60 ft lines.
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Were those engines run hard? I've seen LA25s on speed limit combat planes. An LA25 can pull a good sized foamy near 80 miles per hour. Was the engine run like that or was it run in a more classic stunt run? When run on combat planes LA25s pull near 20,000 rpm. No break. Way different from the muffled LA25 on a Skyray or a Ringmaster setup for stunt. Part of the assessment is in the eye (or more accurately the ear) of the observer. I believe Larry Scarinzi (I apologize Larry, if I misspelled your name) flew a Blue Angel with a Fox 35. A Nobler sized plane. Second place in Open at the NATS. I wonder how that engine ran? Larry runs engines wide open. Ski ran his Nobler so it flew what looked like 6 second laps. It's possible. On the day I saw that, the air was dead. Didn't look optimum to me. I wonder how it would climb against the breeze on the second leg of the wingover. Dane. What kind of laps did the Nobler fly? When Dan Banjock runs Foxes on a plane like the Galloping Comedian, it is run hard. It sounds to me like a 2/2 instead of a 4/2. These Foxes do not sound like what I imagine to be the Classic Fox Stunt Run.
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When I joked with Ski about the way he ran his Fox 35, he said that's the way they are supposed to run. Ski would know about running Foxes way back when. He was there in the 1970s earning, I believe, the first maxed out appearance score at the NATs.
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My ARF Nobler has been flown with a Fox .35 Stunt box stock well broken in with 10 nitro 22 oil 10-6 prop and weighs about mid 40 ounce range. Only problem I ever have with it is the uni-flo comes loose once in a while. By the way, .015 cable 60 foot center of plane to center of handle. May have to pull it off the hook and fly it again if I can find the cowl. It now has an EVO .36 in the nose and and ounce of lead in the tail. Still flies better than I do. With the EVO it is now upper 40 ounce range. D>K
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I built an arf Nobler and put a fox .35 in it. I'd say on a clam day, it was pretty good and would even do the overhead 8's well. If there was a breeze then forget it. I think the LA .25 would be a good choice for light weigh power. If the thing is heavy just go to the la 40 and add tail weight.
K
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Dennis have you weighed that ThunderTiger 40 ready to run with tongue muffler? You'll find out that it probably weighs considerably more than a similarly set up Fox 35 hence the weight of your ARF Nobler.
Now regarding this constant search for the perfect 4/2/4 "Stunt Run" I think that in "some" cases it's just better to let the engine rev up and adjust the speed with prop selection and line length. Let the engine do its thing.
At the recent GSCB event in the face of tricky winds I wasn't even concerned with a "stunt run" I leaned my plane down and just went for it. Yes, I was flying very quickly,but my plane was solid on the lines. The overhead stuff was cake.
Just my 2 cents ,but I think that an ARF Nobler with a bone stock Fox 35 should fly fine if everything is set up properly.
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Were those engines run hard? I've seen LA25s on speed limit combat planes. An LA25 can pull a good sized foamy near 80 miles per hour. Was the engine run like that or was it run in a more classic stunt run? When run on combat planes LA25s pull near 20,000 rpm. No break. Way different from the muffled LA25 on a Skyray or a Ringmaster setup for stunt. Part of the assessment is in the eye (or more accurately the ear) of the observer. I believe Larry Scarinzi (I apologize Larry, if I misspelled your name) flew a Blue Angel with a Fox 35. A Nobler sized plane. Second place in Open at the NATS. I wonder how that engine ran? Larry runs engines wide open. Ski ran his Nobler so it flew what looked like 6 second laps. It's possible. On the day I saw that, the air was dead. Didn't look optimum to me. I wonder how it would climb against the breeze on the second leg of the wingover. Dane. What kind of laps did the Nobler fly? When Dan Banjock runs Foxes on a plane like the Galloping Comedian, it is run hard. It sounds to me like a 2/2 instead of a 4/2. These Foxes do not sound like what I imagine to be the Classic Fox Stunt Run.
I don't time anything but speed planes sir. I can say for certain, the break was soft, if present. I won't say anything about it being an optimal set up, but I'd fly it at a contest. H^^
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I built an arf Nobler and put a fox .35 in it. I'd say on a clam day, it was pretty good and would even do the overhead 8's well. If there was a breeze then forget it. I think the LA .25 would be a good choice for light weigh power. If the thing is heavy just go to the la 40 and add tail weight.
K
I happened upon my noble-arf having an os 40 la. I like it just fine. My friend Art Lies built it, and he's passed away now. I wouldn't change it, just because Art set it up. I kept his AMA number on it also.
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Were those engines run hard? I've seen LA25s on speed limit combat planes. An LA25 can pull a good sized foamy <snip>
I wish Russ Shafer would chime in -- he flies a Fancher "Medic" on an LA 25, and it does pretty well. With a 9-4 prop, launching at somewhere around 11000 (I think) it'll pull a reasonable stunt plane.
Or, you could put a pipe on it like Dirty Dan Rutherford did for a while around here. Before, unfortunately, I started competing, so I missed it.
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Doubt you'll find a Nobler Arf that works well Fox 35 powered. I've seen one ARF Nobler powered by a Fox 35. Usually they are FP40 or LA40,46 powered. The Fox was slow, barely doing maneuvers. Poor corners. Almost no breeze. Flying was marginal. ARF Noblers are heavy.
Dennis if you saw Doug Beneditti TF ARF Nobler or Tom Schaefer ARF Geskie Nobler power by Fox 35 stunt fly you would change you mind, but of course both of these guys are engine experts and know how to set up the Fox 35 with stock parts.
Al
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Hi all.
My recently finished ARF Nobler performs as OS Max 35 with Brian Gardner ABC p/l ans weights 38,3 Oz... And IS a take apart model.....Waiting for the test flights.
Kind regards.
Manuel Cortés.
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Hi all, this is mine ready for time yo fly It.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170216/99b4a77f52052c6d84ee2fbde63da020.jpg)
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Excellent work Manuel!
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Thanks very much, not my work, I Only have suggested control system setup (completely modified) and minor adjustement things (mainly from the feedback in the fórum). The work has been developed by my friend Rogelio Lamas, an experienced stunt pilot and craftsmanship since decades.
Kind regards grom Spain.
Manuel.
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Hmmm.. How did George Aldrich win all those contests with a Fox .35 powered Nobler?
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Hmmm.. How did George Aldrich win all those contests with a Fox .35 powered Nobler?
Because that's all anyone else had, too.
Brett
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You are absoloutely right, Brett. There were no other model airplane engine manufacturers back then.
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Hi all.
My recently finished ARF Nobler performs as OS Max 35 with Brian Gardner ABC p/l ans weights 38,3 Oz... And IS a take apart model.....Waiting for the test flights.
Kind regards.
Manuel Cortés.
Manuel,
Weight without engine and muffler?
Charles
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Hi Charles.
Without engine and Stalker muffler the weight is 29,76 oz. including the take apart strenght reinforcement. Quite light. Hope to fly it son if work lets.
I had a tongue muffler ready but the extra oz in the Stalker was needed to fit the CG.
Regards.
Manuel.