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Building Tips and technical articles. => 1/2 A building. => Topic started by: jim gilmore on September 28, 2009, 05:51:12 PM
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You may notice that I used caps on the WAS. The reason is that Im wondering what you all considered the best flying 1/2A kits prior to these newer larger models. I found it strange when somebody refered to the 1/2A pathfinder as little. Model wise the 1/2A pathfinder is a giant by the standards of yesteryear. My best flying 1/2A's were the topflight mustang ,hawker hurricane and cosmic wind. I even had flaps on them. I believe they were 144 sq" and 24 " span.
So which kits did you think were the best back then?
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I suspect the best two were the 1/2 A Snapper with a Wasp engine, and the Top Flite Baby Flite Streak with an Atwood Shriek and bladder. I did have one of the P-51s, and as I recall, the airfoil was pretty thin with a sharp leading edge.
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Well I really don't know if it would be called the "best", but my favorite was the Baby Ringmaster. Probably with a Baby Bee on it (mid 60's).
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My two favorites were the Lil' Jumpin Bean and the Lil' Satan.
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I would have to say the Baby Barnstormer. I have them hanging on the wall in .049, .020 and .010 sizes.
Clancy
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I always thought the Little or Baby Tomahawk was the best flying 1/2 a plane I ever owned and flew. My second favorite and more modern model was Brodak's f-82 twin. Ken
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1/2A Snapper...
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My first was the Scientific Zig Zag and it lasted a long long time, probably had over two hundred flights on it and I have to say I had more fun with it than any other but the one that flew best for me was the Dumas Little Tomahawk.
Robert
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I had a great time with a 1/2A flite streak but my favorite was my lil Satin
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My own SkyWriter (yes, kitted).
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No doubt about it !!
The Scientific Cadet.
Built up wing and 1/16" BOX balsa fuslage. Better than any hollow log.
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WOWee!
George
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I forgot about the Lil' Omega! Beautiful die cutting, big wing, easy to build. Wonder if the plans are still around.....
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(My own SkyWriter (yes, kitted))
uhm maybe I should have provided a cutoff date to the question ????
Hey MM the lightning doesn't qualify. I said "what was Your best flying 1/2A" I know that that plane never flew in the 1980'S.
..You arent that young to say you just started since 2000 are you ?
Matter fact from what I remember if you were interested in flying 1/2A stunt the engine of choice was a tee dee or an exotic nthat was quite expensive. It wasnt till the norvell came out that I think there was a real choice that was something anybody could get.
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OK, I admit to being older than, probably, you...SkyWriter kit has only been out 2 years, never even flew in the 20th century!
I first flew in the 1950s--from 'way back then, my favorite had to be the Snapper. Used an Atwood.
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What did the Snapper look like? I don't recall it from those days of my "youth" y1 .
I just remember the Ringmasters, Flite Streaks, and the Scientific Logs (note logs, not hollow logs---I don't remember hollowing them out! Could explain some gliding angles though!) like the Red Devil and Zig Zag.
Maybe I lead a sheltered life!
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Whaats a lil omega ?
1/2A flitestreak may have been better than I remember but I thin k the one I flew was overly tail heavy which would definatly detract from flying performance.
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Alan,
Here is a link to photos of the Snapper. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page.
http://www.freewebs.com/minnesotamodeler/halfastunt.htm
Ray produces a great kit of the Snapper, and mine is one of the best kits I've ever owned!
Bill
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My longest lasting plane was a Goldberg Shoestring trainer, had it for probably 7 yrs till a buddy pile drived it into oblivion
Best flying was probably a Sterling Baby Ringmaster.
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I second the Top Flite 1/2A Hawker Hurricane as my best 1/2 A model. Didn't have the other two in the series but am sure they would be right up there with the Hurricane. Mine was powered by a McCoy .049. Even made a larger Hurricane ws 36" based on the 1/2 A model. Take Care, Mike ;)
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An American Junior Firebrand
Larry
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Was that the one with the hollow foam wing? If so, I can second that nomination!
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Yes they were, they made two one with a fuselage (my favorite) and a combat wing.
Larry
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Not a great picture but here is what the Walker ad looked like for the foamies.
Robert
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I WOULD LIKE TO GET A SET OF PLANS FOR EITHER THE FIREBIRD OR THE FIREBRAND
EDITH! HOW DO YOU GET THIS THING OFF CAPS? That is better.
larry
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A lot of the Walker stuff has been preserved but I have not seen anything more except this ad in one of my old magazines.
Hopefully someone out there has one of these and can trace or scan the parts because I bet there are no full size plans still around showing all parts full size. I don't mind if someone can prove me wrong on this point.
Robert
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I beleive that John Wright has an actual model, and you know him!
In addition, as an alternative, Dale Kirn has plans for a balsa version of the Spook! That flew in the same league as the Walker planes.
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What does the Spook look like? %^@
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Carl Golberg Jumpin Bean with a Dual Port cylinder on a Cox Golden Bee
Sterling Baby Ringmaster -
Dumas ( or Scientific?) P-40 with the same Golden Bee
CG Little Toot- cute and a hoot to fly- but dropped like a rock when the engine quit! usually in the middle of a loop!
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To me it was the Scientific Sport Racer. It was the first successful plane for me. When I get ready for another one they were no longer in production. Then it was the 1/2A Snapper and the little Omega combat wing for 1/2A. Too bad I don't have the little catalog that America's Hobby Center used to send out. Pictures of each and every plane they carried. Have fun, DOC Holliday
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Sterling Space Kaydet, OTS legal, later renamed the Space Master with no change except the name. I built two of them back in the 50's. Barry Baxter has a very nice set of plans. Also liked the Snapper, but I flew mostly my own designs.
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Actually learned to fly on an Enterprise P-51. Used an O.K. Cub .099, which isn't technically a 1/2 A, but I still have the engine, which I bough back about 1949 or 50. Last time I used it, felt it had less power than any of my Black Widow .049s. Got a lot of flying on it. I still have the very deteriorated magazine in my files, and I think I also have a copy. All sheet, buildable in a couple hours.
Actualy, a 1/2A I had a lot of fun flying was the Li'l PT, from a full size plan in the 1962 MAN Annual..
BTW, I believe I have a NIB Walker Firebird or Firebat buried somewhere in my attic. 2 piece molded foam wing, profile fuse.
Sometimes I wish I had purchased the Walker .065 engine when I had a chance. Thought it was a littl hoakey at the tme, with its latex tube and squeeze bulb for operating a clapper on the engine to give a variable speed.
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1973 baby flight streak, TeeDee 049 that I got from a farmer that lived near bong. He found a flyaway and did not save the airplane, could not give it back.
Best sheet wing was a stuntman23 or a ambush, but it think that was from plans.
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Best performing sheetwood scientific was hands down, the "All American Boy". I used it to learn to loop, figure eights, inverted flight, and standard wing overs, before I got my first "big" model, a Sterling P-51.
It was light enough that it generally bounced when it had a meeting with "terra firma".
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Hopefully, sometime in the next year or two, I will be building up my Sterling Viper, to be powered with an AME .049 I bought some years ago. Almost all my previous 1/2As were sheet balsa winged logs or profiles usually powered with reedies. Even the really maneuverable ones I've had were limited by my using Babe Bees and Golden Bees with the two vents sticking out the top of the backplates. Any attempt I ever made to do an outside turn ended up with a dead stick from an apparent empty tank.
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The best 2 were made believe it or not by Sterling and neither of them were the Space kaydet or the baby Ringmaster. About 1961/2? they came out with a P-47 and a Grumman Hellcat. Both were profile with a 20 inch built up wing. Probably the most fun I ever had with a 1/2A model. My opinion of course.
Dennis
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My first plane was an F4F Wildcat with profile fuselage and built-up wing. It flew well, with loops, wingovers, etc. But my favorites were Lil Satan and Baby Flite Streak, all with Babe Bee or Golden Bee engines (and all bought from the local Penney's store at the mall).
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My favorite was a veco scout with my buddy's rr 1 on it. Looked like small chief. George
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Hi George, Was the Veco Scout smaller than the Veco Brave do you know? Thanks, Mike
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I had a Lil' Jumpin' Bean with a hot azz Wen-Mac Mk. XI on Fox Missle Mist that was my favorite, but I suspect that a Guillow's Baby Barnstormer w/ a Holland Hornet was really the ticket for the skilled builders/fliers of the day.
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It was if i remember it was 24 in. the brave was 36 in. George
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My very first "flight" was with my cousin's Li'l Jumpin' Bean with a Babe-Bee motor. My family from PA was visiting their family in FL for a family vacation. My first flight was on a baseball field, with take-off from the clay area between second and third. I managed to get the plane around about three or four laps, while going up and down wildly. Culminating with a one-point landing into the hard clay. The plane was badly damaged (but later repaired), so the look on my cousin's face at impact was a stark opposite to my big smile. That one flight got me hooked on flying c/l. Later that day, we went to a hobby shop and I bought an F4F Wildcat kit. I started building it right away, while we were staying at my cousin's house. I finished the painting after arriving back home. I bought a Babe-Bee motor at the J.C. Penneys department store, and was lucky to complete the first flight of the Wildcat without a crash. My c/l flying went on happily from there. I later started a flying club called Flying FunLimited. We made membership cards using a printing press that a friend got through the mail with cereal boxtops. We got discounts at the local hobby shops. Sometimes a local dad with a van took some of us over to a flying club in another town, where we would see how many planes we could get up in the circle at the same time. I think the most we had up at once was 14. We had a lot of fun.
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Dave, what a great story! I especially love the bit where membership cards were made using a printing press that your friend got through the mail with cereal boxtops.
Do you remember who made the kit of your Wildcat?
Robert
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No, I don't remember for sure. It looked like the 1/2A profile that Brodak is selling now. I think it was probably made by Sterling.
Dave
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Hi George, Was the Veco Scout smaller than the Veco Brave do you know? Thanks, Mike
Mike,
The Veco Scout was designed by Joe Wagner and was originally powered by an OK Cub (.049). I don't believe anyone makes a kit, but the plans are available directly from Joe. If you have never had any of Joe's plans, they are excellent plans with lots of notes and comments on them. For instance the Scout has both the production wing ribs using the shaped LE and the prototype using a 1/4" square LE. Highly recommended.
George (another one)
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Hi George, Thanks for the information. H^^
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The Brodak Baby Clown with a Big Mig.061 sport is my current plane. But a Sig Skyray with a Cox .049 is fun anytime.
Cale
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Yep, a hollow log. Looked great and flew even better. It was my transition from the Cox pt19s, p51s plastics to balsa. Like Guillow's ads said "Balsa flys better".
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Lil Satan
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I had many plastic ARFs, then a Lil'toot, a Little Jumping bean, A ranger( high wing free flight and control line) but the one that I got really pretty decent flights out of was a hand me down Stuntman 23 If I recall the name. Flat wing, with a Golden bee .049. It actually flew decent and made many trips to the field. Then I graduated to REAL models, lol,, my goldberg Shoestring with a Mcoy 35,,
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Jim Walker's "Firebird".
Still have the remains! LL~ LL~
Another great flying 1/2A plane was the C.G. VooDoo.
YEP! Built it right over the Goldberg assembly pics. y1
Then we saved up enough $$ to buy a "Lil Satan"!
"Tight lines!"
Wes
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Back then I really couldn't fly well enough to tell the difference (probably still don't) but how about the Scientific 1/2A Kingpin, built up wing, profile body and a fairly capable flyer ??
Dalton H.
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My best flying 1/2A is the Stanzel Lil' Raider converted to conventional bellcrank. It has enough wing area and wing thickness to stunt nicely.
Pat
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Scientific super stuntmaster and a baby bee. I think thats the engine, 049 with the little tank
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I miss the Scientific Logs. Beat most plastic ARFs coming and going. But not as good as lighter built-up structures.
Looking forward to flying the Hiper Viper I got a couple years ago. I've heard good things about it. And some years ago, I did see someone doing REAL well with a Cox plastic stunt plane they had out a number of years ag, but that plane was using a Tee Dee .049. Different animal. Haven't been able to get the Sure-Start or Product engine in it running yet, even though I did get a replacement tank for it.
I have a number of 1/2A planes ready to go, kits, scratch, and plastic, and scratch, and also have a small collection of NIB kits, but the only log kit is an Enterprise Baby Era. I do also have a Monarch 1/2A Vitamin log with a Cub .074, and a Firebaby with a Cub .049B.
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Tony, the Baby Era is a super looking model. I have seen a few on that auction site and grabbed a couple of pictures but that is all I have of this model. Looks very easy to build As most were of that type and time. This is what the instruction sheet looks like. I do wish I had some good pictures of the wonderful box art on top! Could be I might try one of these myself.
Robert
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Okay, 50+, you do know that the log kits are still available through most Authorized Black Hawk Models Dealers? Here is the web site:
WWW.BLACKHAWKMODELS.COM
Here is one of many:
Larry
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Sure do, at least the Scientific models. Been tempted to send in an order. I also have a JPG of one of the early ones, thinking of hacking out a 1 X 2 plank. Also, thinking of using the Baby Era kit I have and using it as a pattern to try my own reproduction of the Baby Era Bipe.
Also have a number of files from old Musciano articles that make some bigger logs. Even have a few of his old Model Boat articles. Also I think one or two FF designs of his.
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Before you start cutting that 1 X 2 plank you might want to get a 1 1/2 X 2 plank as even the later, smaller kits, were 1 1/4 X 2 but all of the early ones were 1 1/2 X 2.
Good luck with that projecr, I will be glad to assist in any way.
Larry
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My Boo-Boo. The 1" X 2"s I have are for carving Rubber Model Props. I also have some 24" 2 X 2" balsa chunks for logs. Have I ever mentioned I'm not fussy about what I fly? I have about 16 flyable RC, 29 CL and over 40 FF and Rocket models. Also over 140 assorted kits for my retirement.
Seems kind of funny. Now that I'm retiredd, I seem to have less time for building and flying than I did when I was raising a family and working 50 to 70 hours per week.
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1/2A Pathfinder w/ Norvel 061, 6x2 prop, 45' lines and Baby Flite Streak w/Cox Medallion 049, 6x4 prop, 40' lines
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Lil Satan
I've only built one Lil Satan, never got to fly it. A couple of kids came by while I was pre-running the Babe Bee. They were very interested and after getting them to promise they would fly it, I gave it to them.
Geez, that was 40 years ago!!!
George
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I built one Lil Satan as well. It was originally finished in white monokote with red trim. The red was from when Top Flite was giving out sample pieces. The center sheeting, leading edge, tips and stab were red. Tried a loop with and did a figure 9 on a hot day in July, centuries ago, lol. The rebuilt had a '76' fly on the outer wing. Also make the engine mount so it was secured with rubber bands. It was powered by a Cox Golden Bee. VD~
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Since we're on the subject
When I was 13, I went to the LHS and they had a Lil Satan with a combat streamer on it, first combat plane I'd ever seen (I was sheltered apparently). Well I had to have one. Built it up, probably did my best job ever on alignment, then covered it with a silk scarf of moms. When she found she went ballistic, screaming and yelling, which of course set me off (hey I was 13, what can I say I felt entitled). I proceeded to grab a hold of the silk with pliers and rip it off, throwing it back at her. Kinda destroyed the model in the process.
Never got another one. I wonder why?
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I still have a Lil Satan, Back Widow. Covered in transparent Orange Mono. Because most of my flying is done at a local RC field, I put a single wheel LG on it so I can use my stooge when I'm alone. Definitely affects the flying. However, I'm currently in a personal project converting about 50 or 60 years of clippings and paper copies of articles and tips, and I've found a nice compact stooge for smaller gearless planes, and I've started gathering materials. I will be able to pull the LG off several planes and add a simple wire loop for a hold-down. Should really inprove my Scientific Big Otto, which doesnt need the extra drag.
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The Goldberg Stuntman 23 was the best, easy assembly and stuntable flyer around 1972.
I taught my whole neighborhood to fly on a design of my own and before long I had a basement full of kids building 1/2A kits. We had a blast. The Stuntman would slug through the pattern fairly comfortably given its board wing. The fact that it had decent wing area more so than airfoil seemed to be a step up from the ealier hollow logs. I had a Zig Zag, the Stunt Trainer, The Lil Zipper, several of my own creations back then also.
When I was a Sr. I was given a choice of any project for a final in Art Class. So I built a half A with flaps and a black widow for power. Brought it in to class, gave a presentation and then out back for a flying demo. Did a reverse wingover, loops and figure 8s....got an A+ and my Senior year of Art class was over. The drafting teacher came out and I dont think it hurt my grade with him either. He asked if I built it from plans. When I told him no, I just built it from scratch he just grinned...and handed it back to me.
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John, wonderful stories! Thanks for those.
Do you happen to have any pictures of these early models? I wish I had taken more myself.
Regarding the Lil Zipper. was it one of those that had the built up fuse with a vac formed top?
Robert
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Combat Kittens and a plane called a Big Otto.
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John, wonderful stories! Thanks for those.
Do you happen to have any pictures of these early models? I wish I had taken more myself.
Regarding the Lil Zipper. was it one of those that had the built up fuse with a vac formed top?
Robert
Cant remember the vacu form top block for sure but I do remember the wing was glued to the bottom of the fuse after covering and it was not the strongest wing joint. Precious little wing area and vibrated like a chain saw in flight....it didnt last long. I have been sorting pics from my youth slowly...I am sure I have some somewhere.
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Lil' Jumpin Bean with a Black Widow. It died a horrible death after impersonating a lawn dart, I still have the pieces 28 years later !
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I've had WAY too many planes do that-impersonate a lawn dart.
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I remember flying a Jumping Bean all day with some of the Phillips Bros kids in Chicago before we moved to California in '66. It flew great and the Cox engine was easy to run, even for us kids. We just kept taking turns with it, and there were about five of us. It broke the elevator horn once, but that was repaired, the only damage in a whole day of kids less than 10 yrs flying it in grass!
I always thought it was the best 1/2A flyer I ever knew, and built one when I was in high school just for fun. It hangs on my shop wall unflown.
Chris...
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Chris, get it off the wall and start having fun again. H^^
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Lil' Jumping Bean/Black Widow about 1963. When my oldest son got started, he got one, and we still have it along with that original Black Widow. ;D My *favorite* was the Scientific King Cobra. 27" built up wing and tricycle LG. I finally found an original kit in the basement and threaten to copy it!
Mongo
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I actually flew my Lil' Satan for the very first time TODAY!! 37 years of procrastination from start of construction to first flight. Must be a new record. I have to agree, it flies great. Definitely my best flier to date. Had a Lil' Jumpin Bean that flew like crap (warped wing + stiff controls = too many crashes and rebuilds). I guess it kinda scared me off of finishing the Satan. Finally finished it off last year in orange monocote. I spent to much time on the finish and didn't want to slather it in oil so I converted it to electric. I also hooked it up to Clancy's Utronics for throttle control. Awesome.
Paul
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Jim Walker Firebird, first outside loop!
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Back in the day..... Lil Jumpin Beans with Baby Bee power. y1 Had two before graduating to an S1 Ringmaster
Joe
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There was one 1/2A design I built a number of. Not a kit, but still one of the best 1/2A flyers I ever had. I was reminded of it last week from seeing a nicely done build and fly video on one of the MA websites from a young Brasillian. The plane was the Li'l PT. Forget who designed it, but it was a full size plan in the March 1960 MAN. Remember when they were actually a full service model airplane magazine? Very smooth flyer, compared to many others I had. Think it would have done very well with a Golden Bee or Black Widow and 42' .008 steel lines. A piece of the sig airfoiled 3" balsa for glider wings would save a bit of work, since instead of a flat plank wing like many, the plans called for sanding the 1/8" into an airfoil shape.
I used to build and fly them, with the impatience of youth, so rapidly neither the glue nor the dope was fully dry. Did my first loops and wingovers with them. Tried inverted flight and outside loops, but for some reason, the engine would quit, and the tank would be dry when the plane came down, with the Babe Bees. The plans (I have some of the original mag, and I've scanned the plans to a computer file) show both tank moung and beam mount. Hmmm!. Beam Mount. Norvel or AME .061. Or Tee Dee .049. Another future project?
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My best 1/2A was the Baby Barnstormer with an O.K. Cub .049. The year was 1954. It flew great. It was only in 1987 that I found that the Baby Barnstormer flew just like the big Barnstormer with a Fox .35. I didn't get around to building the larger version till the 1980's. I vividly remembered the flight characteristics of the 1/2A version when I finally got around to building and flying the the larger version. They were pretty much the same which surprised me. y1 H^^
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Sterling 24" profile Eindecker w/golden bee. Early 1970s. Red aerogloss with white enamel squares for the maltese crosses. Looked very sharp until that Cox 25% nitro fuel hit that enamel. Kinda runny ~^ Oh well, it still flew VERY well. Another fun one was a Scientific P-40 hollow log. The kit included these little steel eyelets for the leadouts. First two flights the up line broke (dacron), FULL DOWN. :X After repairing it the SECOND time, it occurred to me that those little metal brackets were sawing through those dacron leadouts :! Once I replaced them (eyelets) with ply, I never had any other problems. I think I saw the wing out in the shop last summer...I know I've got some block balsa around somewhere..... S?P
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Thats why I used piano wire on half A's.
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While over the years I have used Dacron leadouts, I never ran them through eyelets. I either used L bent solder lugs or a drilled piece of ply. But the last 10 or 15 years, I used .020 music wire or left over .015 stranded control line. In fact, I gave up on Dacron altogether after having a Dacron UP line break while pulling out of a low level loop during a flying demo for a Cub Scout pack. Just use the left overs I still have for wrapping, figure 8 hinges, or rigging when I build sailing shipsor ships in the bottle.
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PDQ baby :## with an anderson .065 <--- technically an"A" for 1/2 a CG jumpin bean or p-40. all 1/2 As are like sled -dogs! (They Mush) jim I
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John, wonderful stories! Thanks for those.
Do you happen to have any pictures of these early models? I wish I had taken more myself.
Regarding the Lil Zipper. was it one of those that had the built up fuse with a vac formed top?
Robert
You know...I think I do but have to go through the family albums. Some stuff was on 8mm film so have to find the VHS we made of those....I think I still have a working VHS...lemme check...
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I remember the built up wing profiles from CG and Scientific being a lot of fun (flying ANYTHING back in the late '50s-early '60s was a LOT OF FUN! LL~ ). The built up wings just flew better. My Scientific King Cobra went through MANY repairs and the CG Lil' Jumping Bean also gave a lot of fun while finishing up the next "big" plane (had to save a good bit to get a "BIG" kit!). When my oldest was starting, I built him a Lil' Jumpi' Bean to use to just get stick time. I still have that one in the basement.
A good buddy had a CG P-40 w/built up wing, IIRC, and I have just had a soft spot to make one of those for the last 50 years or so. Anyone have parts drawings?? ;D I did find a King Cobra kit to trace out, and it WILL be flown this Spring. y1
Big Bear
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Lil Jumpin Bean.
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The only one we could get with lawn cutting money was a FIRE BABY with a OK CUB .049, and then moved up to a WASP.049. this was back in 1954.
Bob