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Author Topic: The little wifey's first airplane :-)  (Read 2357 times)

Offline YellowJacket

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The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« on: February 27, 2019, 08:35:19 AM »
So, I just had to share these pics with you of the Sig Staggerwing Beech she just completed.  She did not realize how much she would enjoy building airplanes and is already starting a new "surprise kit", a Sig Mini-Zilch, so she can learn about built-up wings in a simple stunt kit.

So it turns out I built this same Staggerwing Beech kit about 20 years ago, but was unable to fly it before I had to quickly relocate for a new job and had to get out of the hobby for a while (long story).  Anyway, I can assure you that hers looks better than mine did and while she did have the advantage of an airbrush, compressor and me to answer questions, she insisted on doing everything herself (including bending the kit supplied lead-out wire after I showed her how.

So the only modifications this plane has are: reinforced bottom wing joint similar to top wing; a laminated elevator to strengthen the thin balsa and add just enough tail weight that it balances perfectly to plan with a baby bee; added cap strips and balsa filler fillets to the wing struts because they were too short (also makes then look really cool and robust if you ask me); and upgraded the kit supplied control horn with a nice Kavan small horn, that greatly improves the elevator throw response.   

Now, having never flown this myself, does anyone know what stunts are safe to try with this plane?  I have a lot of stunt flying to learn how to do but I have studied the "methods" of how to perform things like loops, inverted flight and lazy eights from articles I have found on the web.

Long ago, I was really good at flying steady circles with my mostly Guillows warbird planes and safely landing them. So I think I can quickly build on stunts with an actual "stunt plane" per the articles' instructions.  I just don't want to try to do something it simply won't do well and auger her new plane into the ground while she shrieks in horror  ~^

Thanks for any advice you might have on that subject!

Greg and Coby
   

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2019, 09:20:19 AM »
So, I just had to share these pics with you of the Sig Staggerwing Beech she just completed.  She did not realize how much she would enjoy building airplanes and is already starting a new "surprise kit", a Sig Mini-Zilch, so she can learn about built-up wings in a simple stunt kit.

So it turns out I built this same Staggerwing Beech kit about 20 years ago, but was unable to fly it before I had to quickly relocate for a new job and had to get out of the hobby for a while (long story).  Anyway, I can assure you that hers looks better than mine did and while she did have the advantage of an airbrush, compressor and me to answer questions, she insisted on doing everything herself (including bending the kit supplied lead-out wire after I showed her how.

So the only modifications this plane has are: reinforced bottom wing joint similar to top wing; a laminated elevator to strengthen the thin balsa and add just enough tail weight that it balances perfectly to plan with a baby bee; added cap strips and balsa filler fillets to the wing struts because they were too short (also makes then look really cool and robust if you ask me); and upgraded the kit supplied control horn with a nice Kavan small horn, that greatly improves the elevator throw response.   

Now, having never flown this myself, does anyone know what stunts are safe to try with this plane?  I have a lot of stunt flying to learn how to do but I have studied the "methods" of how to perform things like loops, inverted flight and lazy eights from articles I have found on the web.

Long ago, I was really good at flying steady circles with my mostly Guillows warbird planes and safely landing them. So I think I can quickly build on stunts with an actual "stunt plane" per the articles' instructions.  I just don't want to try to do something it simply won't do well and auger her new plane into the ground while she shrieks in horror  ~^

Thanks for any advice you might have on that subject!

Greg and Coby
 
Congratulations on achieving the one thing that 90% of us wish we had - an understanding better half!
If there is an experienced stunt pilot in the area, let him/her fly it and tell you what it is capable of.  With enough power almost anything will do at least loops and inverted.  Corners will crash you if you try them on a plane not capable and anything overhead will as well if the plane is not setup.  Any experienced stunt flier will know the limits of the plane in one flight.

That is one cute ship and it looks like it has stunt capability - good luck!

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline goozgog

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 11:35:41 AM »
Oooo !  Pretty !  y1
Keith Morgan

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 12:24:04 PM »
If you don't know how to fly stunt don't use a nice biplane to learn how.  You will just waste a lot good workmanship.

Put together a couple of simple monoplanes like the Sig Skyray.   Just buy one plane or set of plans and make a few copies.

The extra half-wings in the picture were the original kit wings that flexed too much and had to be replaced.
Paul Smith

Offline YellowJacket

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 07:21:25 AM »
That's actually not a bad idea...I have a couple bottles of colored dope I ordered a while back that they are backordered on (apparently they got behind on production due to a fire) and will see about adding a couple Sky Rays to it before they ship.

Thanks!

Greg

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2019, 06:06:56 PM »
If you don't mind a scratchbuild, go look at the Stunt Chimp (on Australia's "AMA-type" site) or find the Pat King Beginner Baby Ring Master plan. They have very similar construction to your wife's plane. I bet you could scratch out 3 or 4 probably close to two Sky Rays. They'll have a little more wing area too!

The effort to build two or three of the same.plane at a time is only a little more than the time to build one.

Offline YellowJacket

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2019, 08:29:47 PM »
Thank you for that information on the scratch build plans, good man. I built several when I was young and could not afford kits.  I even designed a couple planes myself for .020 and .049 C/L or free flight.

I am sure they are nice but I like Sig and want to do my part to help keep the US kit manufacturers in business.

That being said, I have a 35 size P-40 Warhawk plan I bought about 20 years ago and is the only scratch build I am planning in the next good while...but very excited about the prospect as soon as my McCoy rebuild is back from Lee Machine shop  :)

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 11:04:55 PM »
If money isn’t a big problem, the Brodak ARF or ARc Baby Clowns are superb flyers and really quick to get in the air. Set the controls slow for training or quicker, and you can do any maneuver in the AMA pattern.

A little more involved is the Baby Flite Streak, but even a better flyer.

Of course, I must, modestly, tout my own SkySport as kitted by RSM DIstribution. ;D
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 10:46:12 AM »
Then there are all the Dick Sarpolus 1/2A, all sheet models of about 28" wingspan.  I remember reading that Bob Hunt flew the entire pattern on Dick's Corsair.

I've built, but haven't yet flown, his son Rick's Beechcraft Bonanza (Model Aviation, February,2003).

Here's a quote from Dick's build article for his 1/2A Avenger (Model Aviation, September 1977, p. 50). "We have found models such as this ideal for learning the stunt pattern; my son is learning the maneuvers far more quickly than I did years ago.  This is mainly due to the ruggedness of the models; because of their higher speed they may be more difficult to maneuver but this is more than offset by their ability to bounce back from most crashes.   Learning requires a lot of practice and it helps not to be repairing planes most of the time.  We do our flying over grass fields and for this reason leave the landing gear off the planes.  Small wheels can't handle grass anyway and without them the models are that much lighter."

Interestingly, none of Dick's models have flaps, not even his 1/2A profile Nobler.  If you are not familiar with Dick's designs, they all use Cox TD's, Medallions, Norvel or Big Mig engines, all but the Nobler are semiscale models.  I have a list of his published plans somewhere, but can't find it just now.  Dick's T-28 Trojan is in the February 1999 Model Aviation, pp. 44-48. The Trojan plan number is #870.   The Avenger is plan #202.  My memory says many of his designs were published in Flying Models.

I would like to hear what others who have built and flown some of Dick's designs think of their flying ability.

Thanks,
Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2019, 04:20:46 PM »
I have his Corsair, and it will nicely do basic maneuvers with a muffled Cox Medallion engine. I usually fly it in scale contests.

With the landing gear removed and a Tee Dee, it would easily do the pattern despite a relatively heavy epoxy finish.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline YellowJacket

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 07:53:18 PM »
Just ordered (3) Sig, Sky Ray kits (at $16.50 its a bargain to not have to scratch build) to experiment on.

Also, Mike in San Antonio kindly offered to teach us a few things.

Will post more pics when the Sky Rays are done and once I get the wife flying a steady, level flight, we will go to SA for the advanced training!

Greg 

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2019, 10:36:09 PM »
With a Black Widow engine the SIG Skyray will do every maneuver in the AMA pattern. Not enough fuel capacity for AMA competition, but great for learning and practice.

KOTRC club ran a Qwickie stunt contest where there was only one lap between maneuvers, one of each maneuver, and the whole pattern was judged on a 1 to 10 score. The judging was done by all the participating flyers except the pilot. If there were 6 competitors, the maximum score was 50 points.

Typical flight time was easily within the capacity of a reed engine, about 2 1/2 minutes. Simple planes, quick event, easy to line up judges! JUST RIGHT FOR A FUN FLY! If everyone who flies throws in a buck, it becomes more interesting, but not painful.
 
Incidentally, we required sheet wing models, no airfoil allowed. You would be amazed how well those models could fly. Don’t need no stinkin’ airfoil!
Believe me, flying this is a challenge, because the maneuvers are hitting you at such a rapid pace. Try to fly it for fun sometime!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline YellowJacket

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 07:20:08 AM »
Larry, that does sound fun!

It just so happens that I had a black widow and a golden bee I was saving for something later, like a Brodak F-82, but I like the idea that we will each have a Sky Ray to quickly, build, fly and become decent enough pilots that I can delve into flying the Akromaster kits (bought two of them a little while ago) on a couple used OS and Enya 15s I recently acquired.  I originally bought these for my two boys and plan to help them build them this summer when it is either too windy, too hot, or too wet to fly their Sig Shoestrings or go fishing :-)

BTW, unfortunately John Wright was not exactly in the business of the McCoy swaps we were talking about but I WAS given the name of someone who could help me and that is Lee Machine Shop (Jim Lee).

Jim has been extremely helpful with this McCoy project and is also providing a muffler that will be long enough to get outside the cowl of my yet to built Chipmunk, as well as components for my other used motors if I need them.

I will post pics of the rebuilt McCoy when it gets back (ships out today).

YJ

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2019, 07:43:02 AM »
Yes, John is good for information, but is not in business.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2019, 06:06:05 PM »
With a Black Widow engine the SIG Skyray will do every maneuver in the AMA pattern. Not enough fuel capacity for AMA competition, but great for learning and practice.


  Larry,

Questions:
1) Is a dual port cylinder on a Golden Bee the same as a Black Widow?
2) Are the 1/2A Skyrays you are talking about equipped with landing gear or not?  Or, Can the 1/2A Skyray still fly well with a landing gear added?
3) Which prop?  A 6 x3 or the 5 1/2 x 4 (I think that's the other Cox prop for .049s)?
4) Which lines .008 or fishing line?
5) What length of lines?
6) Rudder offset?  One quarter inch offset per plans or less?
7) Would a 3" bellcrank be a good idea?

Thanks,

Joe Ed Pederson


Offline YellowJacket

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2019, 09:42:19 AM »
Good questions Joe Ed....

I hope you don't me adding on to yours a tad...

Speaking of props, I have a few Baby Bees that I put 5"x3P props on as this seems to be consensus for them.

But I am also curious about the Black Widow and Golden Bee (I have one of each I received in this bundle of used Cox engines)...

There were two 6"x4P red, plastic, flexible props included and wondered if they could be used on the Golden Bee and Black Widow and if so,  should they be ran a little rich or stay lean??

There was also a 7" x 4.5P prop included but that seems too large for .049, although I seem to recall someone saying (read this a good while back) that if you add an extra head gasket to a Black Widow, you can use the 7 and even 8 inch props on them.

So, there is one question there (about the 6"x4P) prop that is important to hear back and the other (7" props) is just in case someone has knowledge of its use).

Lastly, using Sig Champion 25% nitro fuel with 20% oil, should I add castor to bring it to 25% or is it fine the way it is without wearing out my engines?

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2019, 07:12:04 PM »
Grrr! I replied to this a couple of times from my I-pad and it went away.  HB~>

I am here on my desktop, so perhaps it will take!  H^^

Black Widow is a recolored Golden Bee except for twin port cylinder
.
The Skyray should at least be good with a center wheel landing gear.

The choice of props depends on the use:
   Training, the 6x3
   Stunt the 5x3 is good
   Combat would probably be a 5x4 or 5.5x4

I use .008 for competition and Spectra for sport flying

Just enoughrudder offset to be sure it is there is all you need.

3" Bellcranks are good!

6x4 prop is way too much for good reed performance

The extra gaskets and 7 or 8 " props were for low power, high thrust, long duration required for Texaco Free-Flight competition.

25% Nitro, 20% oil is good stuff, if half of the oil or more is Castor.

This is MY opinion/experience and may not relate to reality. Especially in other climate conditions. At the Nations in Muncie I never did get a good engine run. Never figured out why, but have other people with the same experience. You have to do a lot of experimentation where you fly to get the best performance.



 
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2019, 05:44:22 PM »
Thanks, Larry.

Joe Ed

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2019, 06:53:56 PM »
I've flown GoldenBee on an APC 6-2 (six dash two), and I really like it for stunt.  It doesn't go too fast in the level, and holds its speed quite well in the maneuvers.  Don't run a 6-4 -- it'll be a dog.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The little wifey's first airplane :-)
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2019, 07:27:08 PM »
I agree, the 6-2 could be an excellent choice.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


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