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Building Tips and technical articles. => 1/2 A building. => Topic started by: minnesotamodeler on July 21, 2011, 04:11:14 PM
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Well, I'm always looking for something unique that grabs my imagination. This time I think I've outdone myself. This is designed after a novelty freeflight 1/2A I saw in a magazine, forget which one or when. It allegedly flies pretty well with no wings, just a lifting body. I'll find out...
Realize, in the pix you're seeing only the top half. Power will be a Norvel .061.
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"Something a little different" means a lot more when you say it than when a lot of other people do.
I can't wait to see it done!
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I have a clear vision of everything about it except landing gear...still thinking on that.
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You go Ray!! Can't wait to see the finished product! You're still my hero.
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Ray this thing is looking very cool. Landing gear would muck it up (IMHO of course). How about a dolly or a hand launch?
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Hello!
Would that be one of Mr Holland's specials out of Aeromodeller, if it isn't, it should be! Can't wait to see a C/L version.
Regards,
Andrew.
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Hello!
Would that be one of Mr Holland's specials out of Aeromodeller, if it isn't, it should be! Can't wait to see a C/L version.
Regards,
Andrew.
I really can't say...I have a single page from an old mag, unidentified, with a profile, working drawings and the last half of the article, unsigned. I know it's old 'cause it says "Full-size plans from Hobby Helpers, 50 cents." It is called "Martian Space Ship" 1/2A freeflight that apparently began as an attempt to make a "blimp" without the lifting gas, largely unsucccessful, that morphed through several stages into this. Says it was powered by "an ancient Wasp .049." That's all I know. Just thought it would make a unique control-line.
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Ray this thing is looking very cool. Landing gear would muck it up (IMHO of course). How about a dolly or a hand launch?
Actually Frank, that's a very good suggestion...I'll give it some thought. Probably easier to make a dolly than to engineer some tall landing gear! hand launch = no go since I fly alone.
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Isn't that the old Cal Smith design? Looks similar to the old Flash Gordon space ships. Never got the plans myself but I did think about it at the time. H^^
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I am pretty sure Roy Clough designed the original. Skip Ruff scaled it up as a quite successful R/C model. I have seen him fly it. What fun!
BTW, Ray, whatever became of your latest canard? Did it turn out to be a vile canard? VD~ LL~ :##
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It looks alot like a Roy Clough design. In a 1980's issue of Model Builder they had an plan for RC version of the Martian Spaceship. It started life in the '50's as a free flight design. Roy was quite a unique individual, always comming up with different designs. I remember one CL with a rotating wing
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It looks alot like a Roy Clough design. In a 1980's issue of Model Builder they had an plan for RC version of the Martian Spaceship. It started life in the '50's as a free flight design. Roy was quite a unique individual, always comming up with different designs. I remember one CL with a rotating wing
THAT'S IT!!! With a few minor differences; the picture I have doesn't use the rudderlets on the stab tips; front top fin is somewhat differently shaped. But that's it, undeniably, with the "stall fences", porthole trim, etc. Cool! "Started life in the 50s as a free-flight design", that fits the minimal info I have. Thanks for posting the pic.
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I am pretty sure Roy Clough designed the original. Skip Ruff scaled it up as a quite successful R/C model. I have seen him fly it. What fun!
BTW, Ray, whatever became of your latest canard? Did it turn out to be a vile canard? VD~ LL~ :##
The swept-forward canard is finished and hanging on my wall; never have gotten it out for a test flight, not even one. It does look good though. Fact is, I haven't gotten out at all this whole year so far. This may be the "summer without a flight".
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Ray----check out the gear on the space ship picture. It looks right to me.
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I have still have the set of plans and the MB magazines. I can scan the article and email it to you if you like.
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I have still have the set of plans and the MB magazines. I can scan the article and email it to you if you like.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm sorta doing my own thing with the concept. I changed the construction majorly! But the look will be the same.
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Progress pix...as you can see, I didn't go with the drop-off dolly suggestion. Interesting wheels, huh??
--Ray
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The choice of wheels is excellent. It looks like something Jules Vern would come up with. I'm guessing it will fly too.
I do wish you'd fly that canard. If it performs well I want a kit or two.
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The choice of wheels is excellent. It looks like something Jules Vern would come up with. I'm guessing it will fly too.
I do wish you'd fly that canard. If it performs well I want a kit or two.
Well, I'll surely get out sometime before the summer's over. Been too hot lately, we set some new records here.
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Hmm, outpost of the Arctic Circle you say. "Too hot" is 45 degrees? VD~
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Hmm, outpost of the Arctic Circle you say. "Too hot" is 45 degrees? VD~
Hehe, try 115 heat index and 82 dewpoint...both new Twin Cities records. it just ain't fair, to have this and the extreme winters too.
Think about the spread over the year: minus 22 to plus 102, 80 degrees. Top that!
--Ray
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80 degees? I make that 124 degree difference. I guess your snowman finally got unburied?
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80 degees? I make that 124 degree difference. I guess your snowman finally got unburied?
Huh...you're right of course. My brain must be burned up.
Yah, the snowman survived, waiting for another winter.
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Progress pix, just so you'll know I'm still at it. Took a little time off to get a cataract fixed.
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Beautiful workmanship, Ray!
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Beautiful workmanship, Ray!
Thank you. There's actually a lot more work in this thing than I anticipated starting out. It's big, but very intricate. This one I won't be kitting!
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Bringing this up to date, the beast is about ready to cover. The aft rudder is only pinned on; to be installed after all work on the underside is done, to facilitate laying it on its back.
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That should gets peoples attention while flying or even sitting on the ground. H^^
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Yup, this is probably one that I'll fly once or twice to prove it will, then hang it on my wall and leave it. I don't imagine it'll do much more than just go round n'round. Not a lot of excitement in that, just novelty.
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Progress pix, starting the covering. Magnificent rudder, huh...
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Steampunk control line. Wowie.
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Yup, steampunk, a fascinating concept to me. Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, the "Back to the Future" episode set in the Old West with a steam-powered Time Machine, etc.
Should be a pretty good crowd-pleaser.
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Also that turkey of a movie: Wild Wild West. The TV show was bad enough, but the movie.....
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Also that turkey of a movie: Wild Wild West. The TV show was bad enough, but the movie.....
Yah, what a disappointment...
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Also that turkey of a movie: Wild Wild West. The TV show was bad enough, but the movie.....
I liked the TV show. Of course, I was 12 at the time.
The movie was bad. I hate it when they pick a really cool concept and then totally screw it up.
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I liked the TV show. Of course, I was 12 at the time.
The movie was bad. I hate it when they pick a really cool concept and then totally screw it up.
I'll tell you what you shouldn't do, though...go and buy the original TV episodes on a DVD like I did. I too loved the series as a kid. Leave them in fond memories! They are so awful I couldn't even sit through the whole thing. An even bigger disappointment than the movie...
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How about a series "Wild, Wild Sheep Squadron" featuring guys in Corsairs shooting it out with the bad guys in Zeros, all with 6-shooters and Winchester '98s? Guarding the sheep ranchers against those evil beef guys!
True story: My father-in-law is an Army Colonel. He was living with some other guys at SHAPE (I think) and they took turns cooking. He wanted to do lamb ribs, but one of the other officers was a Texan. The reply was "I ain't gonna eat no damn woolie!"
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Here it is all done, well almost...still need to put the portholes down the sides and tie the leadouts. but it's basically ready to fly.
I plan to try to get it in the air this weekend, hopefully with a video camera at the ready. Should be interesting. If it flies I WANT PROOF!
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A marvelous effort, no matter how it flies. And there is no reason it shouldn't!
One trick I do with a really new, wierd design is to hook up a simple tether line and swing it around on about 10' of string. If it is badly out of trim it will buck or even tumble. if it tracks true, you know you are in the ballpark.
I also swing it inverted and look for different altitude between upright and inverted. This will give you a clue about trim problems.
I suspect that you would want it to balance around 10% of the main body from the nose. Better it should never get off the ground than be crazy in the air. Short tank first flight?
Aww shucks, here I am running off at the mouth again. You probably had all that covered. :##
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The fragment of plans I have actually shows a balance point about where the leading edge of my crossbrace is, more like 30% of total length. Seems a little far back but the original apparently flew well with that CG. I have set mine there as well.
Short tank, I reckon!
At least I'm sure it will taxi well...it rolls down my very slightly graded driveway with ease. Looks pretty cool just rolling along...
Power, incidentally, is a Norvel .061.
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The effective area of that lifting body is going to be somewhere in between the projected area of the body, and of those itty bitty strakes. But the effective area of that honkin' big tail is going to be just what it is.
So that 30% point may not be all that far off.
I'd still do the twirl-on-a-string test.
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10-foot twirl test Wednesday.
Maiden voyage Saturday, or Monday if weather isn't right.
Reports to follow. Hopefully video? if there's anything worth watching.
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The plans you have are for a free-flight, no? C/L models usually balance farther forward than the equivalent ff model. The feedback mechanism of the upright handle requires greater stability for smooth flight. :!
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Plans are for a freeflight, yes...maybe I'll wrap a bunch of lead solder around the nose wheel strut.
However, 10-foot twirl test was conducted this AM; passed with flying colors. Hung out there very stably (?), slightly nose up as I would expect.
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Sounds good! Low power, short tank for first flight? Maybe prop on backwards? Better it should just sludge around the circle, and then you can crank it up a bit at a time. Dynamic instability is very much a function of speed!
We are all rooting for you to succeed with this! y1
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We are all rooting for you to succeed with this! y1
And plans when it's done!
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I do appreciate the support, guys...I was sorta half expecting ridicule instead!
Larry, I test-ran the engine yesterday and there's sure no power concerns, the .061 with a 6x2 really cranks up and pulls. backward prop will probably be the initial arrangement, to control some of that power. short tank certainly.
Tim, I have working drawings I went from, mostly former layouts, no true plans. but if it's successful I'll try to draw up more complete layouts.
I'm pretty sure I'll not be kitting this one though!
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Best of luck, and keep your wits about you! (PE**) CLP** o2oP HH%%
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Here's pix with the portholes. They do add something to the look!
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I'm pretty sure I'll not be kitting this one though!
I think if you're good enough to build it from a kit you're not going to hesitate to build it from scratch -- and it's not exactly smack in the center of the kit-building market, now is it?
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For what it's worth, the RC version recommends carrying 1/2" up elevator at for level flight. The lifting body needs positive incidence to maintain lift.
Best of luck and looking forward to the results! ~>
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Definitely looking forward to the flight report , looks like something straight out of Jules Verne !
Bill
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Needs the lettering:" Captain: John Carter first Mate Deja Thoris"
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see 1954 AT Apr p28 by Clough, Roy L. Jr. for the original article it was a F/F ship.
the scans are too large to post here.
Tom Wilk
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see 1954 AT Apr p28 by Clough, Roy L. Jr. for the original article it was a F/F ship.
the scans are too large to post here.
Tom Wilk
Yes...I finally found the first of 2 pages I had acquired, and it is Roy Clough Jr.'s freeflight design, I think that was mentioned by someone else earlier. Glad to give credit where it's due.
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Skip Ruff did a couple of them at maybe double size as RC models. I saw one of them fly, and it was awesome!
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Shades of Flash Gordon and the Terrible Ming. I like it and it should be a crowd attention getter. Let us know when plans are ready. H^^
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Alrighty then, it flies!!! Not well (didn't expect it to) but it undeniably carries its own self through the air.
Note to Larry Renger: the backward prop wasn't necessary, in fact it wouldn't get off the ground with it but just taxiied around on the main gear with the nose in the air, pretty funny. Turns out it needed all the power the .061 could put out with the prop on the right way. You'll hear the comment about "putting the prop on right" in the video.
Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciYLH3EF-GU
Watch it to the end to see indication of the tremendous drag this thing produces--when the engine quits it just stops, right there in the air. Also, just time the laps! 7-second laps on 48' lines, somewhere around 30 mph...
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Very cool! Kinda goes along with the old F4 Phantom theory: "put a big enough engine on something and even a brick can fly".
Now how can we incorporate a droopy diamond in it? ;)
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Ray it flies much better than I expected , very cool ! Maybe just little
shorter lines ?
Bill
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You da' MAN, Ray! I am amazed how much altitude you could get without disaster. H^^ My hat's off to you!
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You da' MAN, Ray! I am amazed how much altitude you could get without disaster. H^^ My hat's off to you!
Yeah, I was trying to nurse it as high as it would go a couple of times. What you see in the video is it. Nice surprise though, in the ensuing drop back down, it always pulled out very well, little mushing. 'Course its angle of attack never changed very much either!
Bill, shorter lines would doubtless have helped some, but realistically it did about as well as anyone could expect. I'm satisfied with its performance.
You might notice, whenever I tried to get in a low groove it got squirrelly. Maybe something with the ground-effect didn't agree with it. It sat fairly well at 10' or so; started searching any time it got below about 5'. I about did a touch-n-go a time or two.
It's been a fun project, worth the effort just to see it make its way around.
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Ground effect only happens at about one wingspan and lower. Hardly the case with this item.
What I suspect is that the extra lift required at higher altitudes provides extra dampening that isn't there when flying level. I have noticed this phenomenon often with stunters that would groove at 10' but not 5'.
At the higher altitudes the feedback mechanism inherent in the C/L system is reduced, thus less oscillatory input. So, better dampening compared to input even though the model aerodynamics and balance are unchanged.
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huh...one wingspan, huh? But-but-but, it ain't got no wings!
I get your point. Probably a manifestation of slight tailheaviness. Nonetheless it flew, it really flew...
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Ray, i really enjoyed the video! Congratulations on a very neat project done well!!! I can only imagine after that flight you had a feeling of self gratification along with a big smile. My hat is off to you again H^^ On a side note, i heard there is a picture of one of your Skywriters in this issue of Stunt News.
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Huh...well that's good I guess. Haven't sold a kit in months. Haven't really tried. Been enjoying cutting parts just for myself.
Yer right, seeing that big teardrop flying along was very gratifying. Would have been kinda embarrassing, after all the electrons used up discussing it, otherwise.
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Very cool, Ray!! I enjoyed the video!
Watch out, Ming the Merciless may come after you to build him a fleet of these.
-Chris
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Thanks, Chris, and all...
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Watched the videos of the SS and the flying wing. At least the SS does fly. Now is that your daughter helping you in the videos? H^^
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Yup, that's my girl...youngest of 4. (3F, 1M)
Older'n she looks though. Law School grad. Just not too big.