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Author Topic: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049  (Read 4620 times)

Offline philip metzner

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glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« on: June 03, 2012, 01:51:10 AM »
I have heard that adapter heads for standard 1\4-32 plugs dont work well, so I decided to check it out. I have two of the heads from mecoa. To get some kind of base line I made several runs with a stock glow head and gasket. With a 5.5x3 tornado prop and 20-20 fuel it will run constantly 15500 rpm. After changing over to the mecoa head i found out the engine is very sensitive to glow plugs. With a standard fox long it wont even stay running, but with a OS LC3 it will run very well at 15350. I have one plug left from several i bought years back that was sold as generic sport plugs in plain blister packs. The plugs are marked R8 on the shell. I wish I could get more because it will run a steady 15900. I need more plugs to try, but I am convinced the head will work well. I would like to hear any suggestions on plugs to try.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2012, 07:40:05 AM »
Have  not used my McCoy .049 conversion head yet.   But have been using the conversion heads for the Cox engines.  I does take a hotter plug to get the RPM up there again.  Also some head shims to help needle setting. H^^
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2012, 11:37:22 AM »
Hello Philip,
  I have yet to try the Wenmac Mecoa heads. I do use the Galbreath heads and Nelson plugs on Cox 0.49s. The Nelson plugs seem to be the key as they seal on the bottom of the plug and tend to reduce plug volume. This combo is quite outstanding and I have yet to blow or replace a Nelson plug. If you are able to make a head using this type of plug, I suspect you may get into destruct territory for a WenMac!

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Offline philip metzner

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2012, 03:32:41 PM »
  Just by looking at the heads I decided they weren't designed to be used with the thick .025 aluminum head gaskets, maybe a cox gasket which i am out of. I tried one head with no gasket, which I don't like doing, but it ran very well like that. The other head I milled .022 from and used the thick aluminum head gasket. Both will work well, but seem to want different plugs slightly. It seems to me that there is more to plug selection than meets the eye.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2012, 03:45:51 PM »
Simple logic says that changes in the volume of the well where the element goes is going to make eight times more difference on an 049 than on a 40.  I've heard that with a regular glow head, with the seal up on the top of the head, that the threads end up being part of the combustion chamber -- that certainly makes sense.

I've been wanting to machine a head that fits the turbo heads that the car guys use on their 3cc and 3.5cc engines, to try them out -- those plugs seal at the nose, like a Nelson plug, but are much more available.
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2012, 06:35:08 PM »
         I have a question in regards of these engines, as I'm curious as to what your flying with them. I don't want to sound like a smarta$$ but these Mccoy .049 and Testor series engines are extremely anemic even compared to a Babe Bee. The other is that some of them can be so problematic to start they just don't even seem worthwhile to fiddle with. However, I can certainly see that if you chose to run one of these for a freeflight plane I can see them being of value. I had some pretty good running Testor engines but all but one have puked the crankshaft out. I recently seen this happen to a Mccoy.049 as well. I was able to get another from my assortment of used parts for him. I think the Testor engine pipe bomb looking one runs fairly well but are sooooo short lived. Is the AMF version the Wen Mac that uses the self contained spring starter on the nose? I have Mccoy's that look identical. I've always wanted to use these engines due to them just being in a box but I never had them perform to anything that I would want to use them in other than a trainer. I never used nitro above 10% in these due to me being skeptical that it would break something. Should I use nitro of 25% content like Sig? I'm not trying to start a dispute I just want to know more about these as I own several myself and have put them aside. I really would like to see them in use rather than sitting. Ken

Offline philip metzner

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2012, 08:37:40 PM »
    Ken, no dispute here, its just my experience has been different than yours. 15900 rpm with 5.5x3 tornado ain't bad to me. I don't fly my old style wen macs just the steel fin ones. They all start and run fine. Most of all my 1/2a planes are baby Ringmasters with the thicker airfoil except my baby flight streak which uses a tee dee or norvell engine.

Online kenneth cook

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 04:30:53 AM »
            Philip, thank you for the reply and this has certainly sparked my curiosity. Looking at my engines last evening, I discovered the one I was trying to run some time ago has a leaky glow plug shim. I discovered it freeing the engine up with oil and I was getting bubbles out of the top. These use a aluminum head gasket. I didn't have a Cox gasket on hand to see if it would work. I think they may be just a bit small. Do you use high nitro on these engines? I have a Stuntman 23 kicking around that isn't real pretty but built real well. I just might have to give it a go. Ken

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 04:32:59 AM »
Hello Ken and Philip,
I cannot see why there should be any dispute. Why do we run old engines? Well it is just fun and that is what it is all about. Getting a gutless old engine to perform well is always a challenge and that in itself is all part of the fun. I have a large collection of "useless" old American 0.49s and I just run them to put a smile on my face. If you want reliable power run a Norvel or a Cyclon, which I am sure you would agree to.
  As to a challenge, once glow plug has been sorted, how do I run a pipe bomb Testor? I don't have a car chassis so any ideas? Now there is another challenge! If the cranks break easily is it a stress raiser on the crank which is responsible or is it a hardness problem ......... perhaps it is just poor engineering design!
  Philip, I chickened out of making a Galbreath type head for a Fox 0.49, the cottage industry prices are so good that it wasn't worth the effort. Pity really because there is a lot of experimentation that could be done. I even purchased the necessary tap for the Nelson plugs and now can't find it!

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Andrew.
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 05:43:30 AM »
           Andrew, my friend and I were recently running the Testor's Sprite Indy car. That car has the Mccoy .049 engine in it but the cylinder head (just the fins) are smaller diameter than the steel fins on the airplane version. The cranks were interchangeable as we found out. You couldn't swap a Cox crank car engine from a aircraft version. The crank broke right at the point the shaft meets the crankweb. All is good now and no problems. The problem with the pipe bomb is you have no way to hold it as there are no provisions to attach the engine other than the molded plastic which holds them in on the car.  I'm certainly going to try all of my examples of the Mccoy.049 rather than base it off of one. I think I have 6 of them and recently 2 were given to me. Not all the engines have plugs though unfortunately. Ken

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 08:59:11 AM »
There is an adapter for $15 to let you use Cox style heads in the Fox.  Thus you can use the Galbreath/Nelson combo, Merlin/Norvel/AP glow buttons et. al.  See my lament....thread on the Fox in this forum.  I have the adapter coming in the mail, and will post my progress with it.
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Offline philip metzner

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2012, 01:34:36 PM »
   Some years ago i was in contact with a nice lady in the parts dept. at testers. After some talking she remembered a big box in the warehouse with things that turned out to be engines. They were the ones you guys are calling pipe bombs, but they had a plastic adapter in the rear with the cox bolt pattern. She sold them to me for five bucks each, and I got some. I have used them for rebuild kits for my wen-macs and for the glow heads. the quality of the piston/cylinder ass. are poor and have to be broken in carefully with plenty of caster. As far as nitro i stay to 20%.

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2012, 01:35:16 PM »
Hi Larry!
Exactly what I meant, it is cheaper to buy a Mattes adapter ring for the Fox than to make a dedicated head using Nelson plugs or turbo plugs. exactly the route I went, but a pity I can't find that damn tap....................you never know what you might come up against, that the cottage industry hasn't got a fix for!

Regards,

Andrew.
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 05:17:35 PM »
            Philip reading your last post, I just had to laugh #^ reading the term "Pipe bomb engine". I always referred to them as just that and they certainly look like a galvanized pipe fitting. Ken

Offline philip metzner

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 08:39:14 PM »
Simple logic says that changes in the volume of the well where the element goes is going to make eight times more difference on an 049 than on a 40.  I've heard that with a regular glow head, with the seal up on the top of the head, that the threads end up being part of the combustion chamber -- that certainly makes sense.

I've been wanting to machine a head that fits the turbo heads that the car guys use on their 3cc and 3.5cc engines, to try them out -- those plugs seal at the nose, like a Nelson plug, but are much more available.
Well your right, it is logical, but the problem is it isn't making much difference with my feeble tests. In fact my best running plug is a very old short plug with a big cavity in it. It doesn't even fill the threads in the head leaving exposed threads in the combustion chamber. I thought it was telling me my compression ratio was to high, so I changed heads and started over. It still ran better with it. The problem is i cant buy plugs like that. This exercise was to find the best plug i could buy off the shelf. What i think I have found out is that the largest contributing factor in a half A engine is in the element. I need to know more about the alloy and who's plugs make the most heat by reacting with methanol.

Offline philip metzner

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2012, 04:26:40 AM »
    I found out that Merlin makes 1\4x32 plugs for 1\2a engines so i ordered one medium and one hot to try. The test engine liked the hot plug best and turned the 5.5x3 tornado 15780 rpm, out performing the stock glow head. When I started testing other engines I found something odd. The engines that run real good on stock heads like the adapter head and plug combo and many perform better, but the mediocre engines dont like it and loose rpm. Thats as far as I have gone with this and have been flying more and testing less for now.

Online kenneth cook

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Re: glowplug tests on testors/mccoy/wen mac 049
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 04:49:02 AM »
             I suppose you were also trying head gaskets? I suppose a mediocre engine has more time on it thus less compression and possibly in need of some vitamin N. Ken


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