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Author Topic: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano  (Read 466 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« on: November 28, 2018, 08:28:03 AM »
I came across these Scientific hollows logs in a 1950 magazine ad.

They definitely fit the specifications and as bonus, have a 22" wingspan.  But maybe before Walt's time.

They look like the same design with slight modifications, which was clearly Walt's style.
Paul Smith


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2018, 10:31:15 AM »
Boy, that $1.95 was big money back then.  I was paid 35 cents a bushel picking apples and pears when in season.  Helping with farm chores for neighbors was 50 cents and hour,  dollar an hour if haying season. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530

Have fun as I have and is still breaking a record.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2018, 11:29:18 AM »
I'm on a project - bigger than it first looked - of sorting a cataloging a Scientific plans collection.

On finding: only about half or maybe less of Walt's plans are "hollow log legal".  I'd welcome an event that allows the builtup wings, profiles and box fuselages.  Hollow log is sort of burned-out after 15 year or so.
Paul Smith

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2018, 06:39:35 PM »
Mr. Paul,

Are you collecting the plans? Or only ads related in order to catalog the old offerings?

I'm quite fond of the Scientific fleet. I have two plans, decals/parts scans (24" symmetric wing profile P-40, and 25" symmetric wing profile Super  Mustang) that like to offer in trade for other plans/tracings that I don't have. My scans are full size.

Jim in MS

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 07:52:49 AM »
Neither.

I'm just sorting a hoard of plans and catalogs.

One of my findings is that less than half of Walt's designs are "legal" Scientific flat-wing hollow logs.  Most of his best work involves built-up wings and profile or box fuselages.  We should have events for his non-log designs. 
Paul Smith

Offline john vlna

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 10:44:37 AM »
I came across these Scientific hollows logs in a 1950 magazine ad.

They definitely fit the specifications and as bonus, have a 22" wingspan.  But maybe before Walt's time.

They look like the same design with slight modifications, which was clearly Walt's style.

They are Walt's designs. The Aeronca was published in his book " Building and Flying Scale Model Aircraft."

Offline George Hostler

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 05:31:28 AM »
Back in 1965 I had Walt's built up Grumman F6F Hellcat. It used sheet fuselage sides, flat sheet bottom with a clear plastic turtle deck. However, it would be easy to make it as hollow log as it appears that at some point a decision was made to use built up instead, which may have been a cost cutting measure.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2018, 09:09:11 AM »
Back in 1965 I had Walt's built up Grumman F6F Hellcat. It used sheet fuselage sides, flat sheet bottom with a clear plastic turtle deck. However, it would be easy to make it as hollow log as it appears that at some point a decision was made to use built up instead, which may have been a cost cutting measure.

I agree with your point.

Back around circa 2006 or maybe 2007, I attended my first Musciano contest.  I was shocked to find out that Walt himself actually donated the prizes and traveled to the contest (from New Jersey to Kalamazoo Michigan) and mingled with the contestants.  So with that degree of sponsorship, we happily went along with his rules verbatim.

I'm currently sorting-through a large collection of Walt's work.  It looks like over half of it doesn't fit the "hollow log" rules.  If somebody wants to start up a Scientific Half A event, open to all of their designs, it might be a nice new event.

My problem is that during the "hollow log days" I wore out what was left of my Cox 1/2A hoard.  That might be a limiting factor for others as well.
Paul Smith

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 08:11:44 AM »
Cox probably made about 20,000,000 engines.If you need one, they are out there!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan

BTW, Dracula Sucks!

A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 09:42:10 AM »
See them on the Ebay all the time and some going for ridiculous prices. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530

Have fun as I have and is still breaking a record.

Offline George Hostler

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 10:55:57 AM »
See them on the Ebay all the time and some going for ridiculous prices. D>K

Lately, prices have softened some. I gather that with more engines being sold from estate sales and 1/2A RC gone mostly electric, there is less demand for the reed valve engines. One can go to Ex Model Engines or Cox International Canada and buy a reed valve tank engine. Prices may seem a little high, but in reality after using an inflation calculator, they aren't too far off from what we in reality paid 40+ years ago.

The difference is that we paid lower tax rates both in sales tax and in income tax then that we had more disposable income than we have today.

There are also those of us who have a "hidden" stash of Cox / OK Cub / Wen Mac / Testors / etc. half-A engines that for a token fee or free would be willing to part with an engine or two for someone who wants to give half-A CL a try. It doesn't hurt to make friends with CL fliers in the community.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 09:24:32 PM »
Back in 1965 I had Walt's built up Grumman F6F Hellcat. It used sheet fuselage sides, flat sheet bottom with a clear plastic turtle deck. However, it would be easy to make it as hollow log as it appears that at some point a decision was made to use built up instead, which may have been a cost cutting measure.

Dave Cowell of DPCModels reproduces this exact kit, and I own one of these copies...NFI, but I have several of his repops. Each one is reverse engineered to take out some of the big manufacturer's.concessions to expediant mass-production . Example: On the P-40 Red Tiger from the same Scientific series, Dave removes the "slanted" rib pattern and aligns them parallel to the root ribs. He does make some minor alterations...block strip leading/trailing edges that must be shaped by the builder. Occassionally, he uses a double-laminated 1/8" part to make the 1/4" piece. Wheels are old school plywood discs that get laminated together. Sometimes the bellcrank is plywood like the original (and on a button stand-off) as is the control horn. Then other times it is the typical 1/2A plastic bellcrank with bushing and control horn ala Carl Goldberg. I can say the P-40 Red Tiger is a joy to assemble. I expect my copy of the Hellcat and Zero will be too!
If I could find any of the others (Zipper, Hurricane, Shoestring) I'd send them his way to fill out the series.

Offline George Hostler

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 10:45:30 PM »
Dave Cowell of DPCModels reproduces this exact kit, and I own one of these copies...NFI, but I have several of his repops. Each one is reverse engineered to take out some of the big manufacturer's.concessions to expediant mass-production.... I can say the P-40 Red Tiger is a joy to assemble. I expect my copy of the Hellcat and Zero will be too! If I could find any of the others (Zipper, Hurricane, Shoestring) I'd send them his way to fill out the series.

Jim, I have Dave's F6F Hellcat kit. I mentioned in Hip Pocket Aeronautics that I built one back in 1965 as an adolescent. He then PM'd me if I'd like to be the first to receive a copy of his kit, his price was reasonable and I couldn't resist, many kudos to him. I started it, have an NOS OK Cub .06 reed valve as a generous gift from Dane Martin (thanks Dane!) to power it. Still need to finish it.

Dave did his best to mimic the original construction to include the well detailed clear plastic turtle deck. He also did his best on the 2 piece plastic cowling. However, as I remember it, the one on my Hellcat was mated to a very round firewall. I think Dave used a similar one but of thinner profile on one of Walt's other hollow log radial engine based kits. Then recently I found a photo of Walt's profile F4F Wildcat with built up wing, with a round cowl. I think Walt borrowed the non-scale radial cowl from his Wildcat kit. Bingo!

A modification I am making is using a vitamin supplement bottle of the correct diameter to replace the 2 piece and a new round diameter firewall to place over the kit one. I did such a cowl on my Baby Gee Bee Z Ringmaster variant to cover the Gilbert .074 Thunderhead, and it worked out well.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 05:20:51 PM »
Looks great and I hope it flies well. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530

Have fun as I have and is still breaking a record.

Offline George Hostler

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 06:07:06 PM »
Looks great and I hope it flies well. D>K

Doc, I may have to do the fuel tank orientation. Here, I put it centerline with the Gilbert venturi. Other's feedback, does better if the tank is below the venturi. Haven't fired up the engine yet, will know more when I do. I've got several Gilbert .074's and .11's to play with.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 09:17:17 PM »
Yes you may have o move the tank up or down depending on how it goes in the air. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530

Have fun as I have and is still breaking a record.

Offline George Hostler

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Re: Scientific hollow logs but maybe not Walter Musciano
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2018, 11:54:13 AM »
Yes you may have o move the tank up or down depending on how it goes in the air. D>K
Am told that the Gilberts prefer tank lower than spray bar. Mounted vertically, this is easy to do, because the venturi angles upward above engine mount. Sideways a slightly different story. Will know more when I try.


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