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Building Tips and technical articles. => 1/2 A building. => Topic started by: Peter Hess on March 12, 2010, 12:03:13 PM
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Many posts have touted the AP Wasp .061 as a very good engine. I have not, however, seen any comment about the Wasp .061 that has been modified for control line use and is being sold by RSM. Does anyone have experience with the RSM offering? Comments about its performance and how it compares with other .049 - .061 engines would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for your input.
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Larry Renger probably has as much experience with the AP Wasps as anyone.
I've converted one of mine with Jan's venturi, and it runs great. The only thing about these engines that I could fault, would be the R/C carbs.
Bill
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The RSM Wasp is a stock Wasp with a Jan's Venturi. Do a search and find mucho info. It is the standard engine we use in 1cc hereabouts. Nothing else compares, including Norvel, Tee Dee and Brodak.
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Larry, just curious, what about the Norvel doesn't compare in your opinion?
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Thanks, Bill and Larry, for the comments. I have had a hankering to build a little Pathfinder but could not decide on what engine to use. Many previous posts extolled the virtues of the Wasp but your comments remove any doubts about what to choose if I decide to go ahead with the project.
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I've got no experience with the Wasp but I have run the AP .09 and .15 R/C's with the throttles locked open. I didn't feel that they were exceptionally powerful but they did run very smoothly and consistently.
I wouldn't hesitate to try the Wasp but I would like to hear why some like it better than the Norvel. This is only because I have a couple of the Norvel .061's and really like them, great power and good runners after the break in.
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Norvels are really great engines, but are getting very hard to find, as are the replacement parts.
Wasp engines are available now, and at reasonable prices. Parts are also easy to get, and inexpensive.
The AP (ASP) engines may not be as powerful as the later Norvel engines, but they are no slouch by any means.
The Chinese still haven't learned how to make good screws, but they are easily replaced at the nearest ACE Hardware. ;D
Bill
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We find that the Wasp with Jan's venturi is actually more reliable for a clean run through the pattern than the Norvel! And it is WAY less expensive than any of it's competitors , even with the separate purchase of the venturi. We fly it on the Sky Sport (180 sq.in.), Baby Nobler (160 sq.in.) and the Baby Magician (230 sq.in.) on lines of 45 to 50 ft. More sophisticated models are on the way.
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Can someone post a couple good pics of these?
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Isnt the AP a knockoff of the Norvel?
I posted questions about the AP .061 and during that thread the quality came into question as being inconsistent. When that was explored further folks suggested that the Norvell Big Mig was the engine to have and that the only issue was that they were becoming a bit rare. What kicked this off is that my flying buddy had one AP that was a good motor but hard to start. Once the needle setting was determined it was great. His son twisted it around one day on the way to go flying and it gave him fits to get it back to where it was. He hung a new one on a Lightning that he built and it just appeared low on power. It would fly the plane but it wasnt getting it anywhere quick. This conversation went back and forth on Props, Venturi, Etc.
Bottom line is that there were some posts where folks chimmed in on the quality that can come into question on the AP. I purchased a Big Mig recently and we are going to try it on the same plane (lightning) to see how it compares. I can tell you that the tolerences are much closer on the Norvell.
So did the quality get better? If so I'll buy one.. but for the moment I have been looking to Ebay another Norvell.
Mark
PS: Here are some of the quotes I could find:
* I know that Larry Renger has stated more than once that these engines have had some issues in the crankshaft department. It may be binding somewhat due to a tight fit therefore not making the power it should be.
* Something don't seem right...my new AP Wasp .061, still tight, pulls a 200 sq. in. combat wing on 48' lines plenty fast. It isn't the equal of my Norvels (not yet), but a strong engine.
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Mark,
I've only run two of mine, one with a Cox venturi, and the second with one of Jan's. Performance is the same on both, but Jan's venturi and spraybar are far easier to install.
These engines were pretty dirty inside from the factory, so I clean them now before doing anything else. Don't forget that these engines take some break-in before they will come up to speed, so be patient with them when new.
Hobby People gives good support, and replaced one of Larry's without hesitation.
Check the thread "AP Wasp with Cox venturi" for some RPM figures, but keep in mind that RPM alone is not the definitive factor in power.
Still haven't flown any of mine, but have no doubt they will do well.
Bill
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Cool! And thank you for the information.
Mark
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I do tend to disassemble and clean my engines and polish crankshafts and such as a normal proceedure. Also, the break-in of the Wasp is NOT what you would expect in a small engine. I find that following the written directions is a very good thing.
If there is a difference in performance between the Norvel and the Wasp it is due to two things I have noticed. Most of the parts are completely interchangeable, BUT, the Norvel has a bigger venturi and more advanced crank port timing. I am sure that these things contribute to the less reliable stunt run for the Norvel. The Wasp will deliver good power reliably with a suction draw tank. I will not trust a Norvel without pressure to the tank.
For stunt, give me bullet-proof reliable power over high power every time. I will design a model to suit the power I have, and be a much happier camper. I own just about every type of Cox, VA, Stehls, Norvel, and Cyclon modern engines, and just about every old 1/2 A you care to name, and I fly WASP/Jan venturi!
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Where can you get a Jan venturi I have had a hankerin for a while to build a modified Jumpin bean with a lil snip wing and a Wasp in it.T.J.
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T.J.
Look in the members section for Jan Holuszko. Should be on page 42. His email address is there.
Bill
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Jan's venturi is very well designed and beautifully made. It uses the needle valve from the RC carb. The needle is angled to move it away from the prop for those of us who are fat fingered. Whether you buy the engine from RSM with the venturi, or buy the engine and venturi separately you will have a very nice little .061. y1
Pat
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Antone Kephart flew a brand new AP .061 with Jan venturi today. Broke it in in the air (OH the SHAME!!!). He has a Norvel pressure backplate on it and is running a 6x2 prop on 25% Nitro, 25% Oil fuel. After about 4 flights, it is running just fine. I believe he plans to drill out the venturi a bit at a time. Last year, he was running a similar setup with a .125" diameter venturi; stock is somewhere aroung .096" ( Sorry I would have to go check to get the number exact )
Antone is flying my Baby Magician design as published in Flying Models (Plans available from the mag, and laser cut parts from RSM). He is getting 4.9 second lap times (I don't know his line length, but it is close to 50' one way or the other)
With about 8 APs under our belt, there was one that "bled" too much fuel out the front, and another that seemed to be a bit tight in the crank. Hobby People replaced the first one instantly, and the second was easily lapped and polished in, and runs like a scalded cat.
Our little 1cc/1/2A cadre here now only runs the AP and the Cox Medallion engines for serious competition. I admit to running a Holland Hornet for Qwickee Stunt, but it isn't sorted out yet. (See the Qwikee Stunt thread for that saga).