Author Topic: Lil' Satan w/Golden Bee (Read 7688 times)

Larrys4227 · « **on:** July 21, 2015, 05:42:18 PM »

I built this Lil' Satan quite some time ago ... but never really flew it because of worn out 1970's era .049's. One of my earliest remembrance of control line flying was with the Satan .... flying combat with my brother.

Last week, I broke down and bought a GoldenBee II .... runs great and cant wait to fly it and screw myself into the ground. Just gotta find somebody to launch for me!

Thanks for looking ....

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2015, 07:07:50 PM »

Nice satan! I love that model, I have one I need to re cover and get into the air.

Instead of waiting for a launcher you could build a simple wing stooge like the one in this thread, it's how I taught myself to fly.

http://www.coxengineforum.com/t8201-skyray-on-stooge?highlight=Stooge

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:37:38 PM »

OK Jim ... now thats pretty ingenious.

With as small as the Satan is, it wouldn't take much to hold it so I could get out to the handle. Do the planes drop much on the initial pullout of the holder? I have a cheap-o fold up table thats about 3 feet high I could use ....

Thanks for the inspiration to get it done by myself ...

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:49:13 PM »

Google "sleeve launch". There's at least one good YouTube video.

I would launch a SkyRay-ish plane from a step-stool about two feet off the ground, and be successful about nine times out of ten -- the tenth time I'd brush the ground and stop the engine. Don't use a 6-3 prop -- a 6-2 will give you better acceleration and barely less top end, while a 5-1/2-3 or -4 will give you a higher top end but less acceleration (which may be bad with a sleeve launch!).

Have fun.

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2015, 09:11:35 PM »

I use 2 milk crates stacked end to end for a stooge. My Tee Dee powered satan will prop hang for a second before it takes off. Be ready to dance a little to keep the lines tight on launch.

Jim

Chancey Chorney · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2015, 09:43:33 PM »

That is quite a combonation. The plane and engine look great.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:03:20 AM »

All I have are 6x3 and 5x3 props. The 5x3's are very flimsy and I can see deflection in the prop when its running. The motor is smoother with the stiffer 6x3's. I also have an APC 6x4 but might be too aggressive. The time or two I did have the plane in the air with the elder 70's Cox engines .... it was really fast and twitchy. My guess is I went with 30ish foot lines.

This will be fun to experiment down the field. I'm sure I have something in the garage to make the sleeve .... carpet, bath mat (wife shouldn't notice!) and maybe a couple bricks to hold it to the table. The Satan isnt very big ...

When I bought the engine, I also bought a head adapter to accept glow plugs (OS 6/A3). Now I'm reading that it isn't recommended to use them in TeeDee engines. Anyone have any additional info as to why?

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:18:09 AM »

The standard plug conversion lowers compression and kills performance. You want to use one of these:

http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-glow-plug-adapter-insert-style.html

My favorite prop is a master airscrew 6x3 cut down to 5".

Jim

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:41:41 AM »

Thanks Jim ... I did see those adapter's, but ordered the other considering I have quite a few OS hot plugs. Next order, I'll pick up the right adapter and a few plugs.

Just looked, and the 6x3's I have are Master Airscrews. Since I have a couple, I'll cut one down and see what happens.

Thanks!!

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2015, 06:59:51 AM »

It would be prudent to rotate the cylinder to the outboard side of the engine. It does 3 things when done. Moves some weight to the outboard wing and also prevents damage to the engine when you have that inevitable mishap lawn dart landing. It's also easier to both prime or clear the engine. You can also rotate the back plate placing the n.v. on the leading edge. There are other things to use to get better runs from the engine but they are not necessary to have fun.

Dennis

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2015, 07:22:07 AM »

Dennis - You are absolutely correct on the orientation of the engine. Ultimately, thats what I want to do. My old engines were turned like that, but can't get them to run right. I have a brand new "Sure-Start" and now the golden bee ... and the compression 'seems' the same in the old engines .... comparted to the new. I've got a good glow but they just wont run good. I believe the problem is in the reed on the old engines. I don't know how its supposed to be in there, and I know they are finicky.

With that said ... I'm gun-shy about tearing the golden bee apart to rotate it. I finally have an engine that runs ... I just want to fly the darn Lil' Satan!!

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:58:50 AM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on July 22, 2015, 07:22:07 AM

Dennis - You are absolutely correct on the orientation of the engine. Ultimately, thats what I want to do. My old engines were turned like that, but can't get them to run right. I have a brand new "Sure-Start" and now the golden bee ... and the compression 'seems' the same in the old engines .... comparted to the new. I've got a good glow but they just wont run good. I believe the problem is in the reed on the old engines. I don't know how its supposed to be in there, and I know they are finicky.

With that said ... I'm gun-shy about tearing the golden bee apart to rotate it. I finally have an engine that runs ... I just want to fly the darn Lil' Satan!!

Reed valves are not difficult to figure out. If you have had it in your engine and ran it a bit and it gets irregular take the tank off and turn the reed valve over. They take a set kind of after awhile. Also I liked the Copper/Beryllium reeds back when I was young but the newer Teflon ones seem to be better and longer lasting.
The only thing to do when re assembling the tank to the case is to make sure that you get it seated well i.e. flat, the gasket is good and you have not misplaced the little O ring gasket on the fuel inlet stub on the backplate, and the screws are not forced tight, just snug is usually good and will prevent distortion.
Dennis

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2015, 11:44:09 AM »

If it has two bypasses then a 6-3 is too much prop for that engine. A 6-4 is way too much. Most planes will actually go a mite slower with a 6-4 than a 6-3. Put a smaller prop on it and let it wind up to its happy speed.

APC makes LOTS of nice 1/2-A props, and they're cheap, so you can get an assortment and play around to find the best one for your engine and airframe.

David Fountain · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:07:26 PM »

Actually the cox grey 5x3 works well on my skyray for the stooge all ya do is smoothly step back and pull it out once it gets about half way out it will have elevator authority and be ready to put a tad up in it. it also helps to elevate the envelope a little to give it some nose up. Here's a video of my skyray coming out of the stooge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7XK8ifJsqQ&feature=youtu.be
(David)

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:27:40 PM »

Hey Dave... nice job on the video. I hope I do as well pulling the plane out of the stooge! Still in the planning stages of it, but it will have some up angle to give me a fighting chance to get airborne.

Consensus is the 5x3 is the prop to use. Yours was a good flight and very steady. Nicely done!

David Fountain · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2015, 11:31:17 PM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on July 22, 2015, 08:27:40 PM

Hey Dave... nice job on the video. I hope I do as well pulling the plane out of the stooge! Still in the planning stages of it, but it will have some up angle to give me a fighting chance to get airborne.

Consensus is the 5x3 is the prop to use. Yours was a good flight and very steady. Nicely done!

Thanks! I try lol. You'll do ok it takes a little practice to get use to it also when you pull it from the stooge kinda stand a little left of the launcher it helps get the nose pointed more to the outside when it pulls free so you don't have to dance back as much to achieve line tension. (David)

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2015, 04:10:55 AM »

I'm all set for tomorrow, I think. Launcher is made .... I found a USPS box that the wing fits into perfectly and gives the nose about 20 degrees elevation. That is then attached pretty securely to another flat box that will be held to the table. My wife thought it was pretty slick .. LOL

Paul Smith · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2015, 06:48:16 AM »

The vertical cylinder protects the needle valve.

Gene Pape · « **Reply #18 on:** August 19, 2015, 09:16:27 PM »

I built my first Lil Satan about 1965 and have always enjoyed them. Check out my easy to build copy at:
http://flyinglines.org/kb.widosatan.html
Gene Pape

RknRusty · « **Reply #19 on:** August 19, 2015, 11:04:34 PM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on July 24, 2015, 06:48:16 AM

The vertical cylinder protects the needle valve.

True, but the cylinder gives great leverage to the screws in the firewall when it pancakes hot and inverted. I have a frequent flying Satan too, with a TD .049. I radial mounted it with one of those round aluminum backplates that screws in where the stock backplate goes.
I have my cylinder pointed up too, but that's to protect my fine thread needle. I'll better try not to pancake it.

Mark Mc · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2015, 12:07:18 AM »

Quote from: Gene Pape on August 19, 2015, 09:16:27 PM

I built my first Lil Satan about 1965 and have always enjoyed them. Check out my easy to build copy at:
http://flyinglines.org/kb.widosatan.html
Gene Pape

Interesting design, Gene. I'm printing the plans now. But, what are the sizes of the spars and the leading and trailing edge stock?

Mark

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2015, 11:48:50 AM »

The Widowsatan turned out to be a much better flyer than the original little Satan. Gene Pape made a nice airfoil and layout. One of our greatest challenges was to get a full tank out of the reed valve monsters.

Have fun.

Author Topic: Lil' Satan w/Golden Bee (Read 7688 times)

Jim Roselle

Jim Roselle

Jim Roselle