Author Topic: PDQ/Brodak Clown rebuild (Read 4869 times)

Ron Cribbs · « **on:** August 23, 2013, 10:04:05 PM »

I wrecked my Brodak clown yesterday and since I had a genuine PDQ kit laying around I decided to meld the two together as the Brodak wing is a tad larger.

Here is a picture of the PDQ fuse next to a Brodak fuse.

Here is a PDQ style fuse I cut using the original as the template

I plan to turn this around quick as this is my practice plane for the OTS contest in Tulsa next month. I will be flying a full size Ringmaster, but mostly only have 1/2A practice space.

Ron

Larry Renger · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2013, 10:36:52 PM »

Anyone have a clue as to what engine size the original Baby Clown was to use? The mounting area is huge! The engines in those days were slugs compared to what we have now, so maybe a .15?

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2013, 11:09:46 PM »

That looks really cool with the pdq fuse, like the cartoon/fantasy version of a golden age racer. If it were me I would find the appropriate size plastic medicine bottle and make a radial engine cowling. Can't wait to see it finished.

Jim

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2013, 07:15:04 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on August 23, 2013, 10:36:52 PM

Anyone have a clue as to what engine size the original Baby Clown was to use? The mounting area is huge! The engines in those days were slugs compared to what we have now, so maybe a .15?

Larry,

The box and instructions just say "for 1/2A class motors" (see photo's)

It would be tempting to stick a .09 on the nose as the dimension are not that far off from a Flying Clown. I will probably have to shim the bearers to accept the TD.049 I plan on using.

Ron

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2013, 07:23:02 AM »

Quote from: Jim Roselle on August 23, 2013, 11:09:46 PM

That looks really cool with the pdq fuse, like the cartoon/fantasy version of a golden age racer. If it were me I would find the appropriate size plastic medicine bottle and make a radial engine cowling. Can't wait to see it finished.

Jim

Jim,

Normally I despise cartoon like models, but for some reason the Clown designs really appeal to me. I think the cowling would look good although it may make the nose weighty.

Ron

Larry Renger · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2013, 07:43:58 AM »

For a super light cowl, use the can from a mini Coke. Extremely thin Aluminum and a reasonable shape.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2013, 07:50:07 AM »

Larry, I do have an original Baby Clown and I believe the engine that was used was the K&B Green Head possibly the .09. It probably is the most horrible flying plane I ever owned. The wingspan is too short, the plane rapidly stalls and it barely finds it's way through a loop. The Brodak version is far superior to the original. I have many early models that are similar in design. They look real cool but all suffer the same fate. Ken

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2013, 08:29:54 PM »

Ok,

Today it was tricky to try and get things done. I did manage to get the fuse built up though. The bearers had to be shimmed to accept the TD. I used light ply for shims as I figured I needed strength in that area. I also extended the bearers into the fuse even though it was not that way from PDQ. To save weight I epoxied two pieces of 1/64 ply together and cut them into doublers. Feels plenty strong. As you can see the nose tapers to the shape of the doublers which were fashioned using the PDQ pieces as templates.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2013, 09:31:48 PM »

Looking good.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2013, 10:09:25 PM »

That looks like an incredibly high pitch prop, what is it?

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2013, 03:50:47 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on August 24, 2013, 10:09:25 PM

That looks like an incredibly high pitch prop, what is it?

MA 6x3. I usually cut them down to 5.25-5.5.

Isn't that what you have on your Clown?

Ron

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2013, 07:14:12 AM »

Quote from: kenneth cook on August 24, 2013, 07:50:07 AM

Larry, I do have an original Baby Clown and I believe the engine that was used was the K&B Green Head possibly the .09. It probably is the most horrible flying plane I ever owned. The wingspan is too short, the plane rapidly stalls and it barely finds it's way through a loop. The Brodak version is far superior to the original. I have many early models that are similar in design. They look real cool but all suffer the same fate. Ken

Ken,

I am hoping to negate that issue by using the Brodak wing. It has more span and a thicker airfoil. I may also use flaps either fixed or operational. Not sure yet.

The distance between the wing and tail are about the same for the PDQ as the Brodak. The PDQ has a slightly larger horiz stab and elevator so I cut a new one using the PDQ as a template. This will also be run on pressure. If you have any ideas on how to cleanly mount the bladder I am all ears!

Ron

George · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2013, 10:31:54 AM »

Whipped out the July 1964 issue of MAN (back when it was a real model mag) and found the Flying Clown in the AHC advertisement.

The Baby Clown is listed as 22" span, .049 engine and price......$1.50!!!

Flying Clown...28" span, .19-.35 engine, for $1.95

Super Clown...36" span, .35 engine, $2.95

OH, those prices!

George

kenneth cook · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2013, 10:40:12 AM »

Ron, I have used several methods to mount bladders. I prefer them in the wing usually right on the CG or close to it. That isn't always possible due to the thickness of the wings. I still am a fan of the T-8 fluorescent light guard tubes with balsa end caps. This can be easily attached to the side of the fuse. Height obviously isn't a issue. When I do install them within the wing, I epoxy the tube to the spar. I install half ribs on each side of the bladder compartment and sheet over the compartment. Sometimes the bladder compartment wil protrude through the wing so I leave that portion out of the sheeting which is just a radiused speed bump so to speak. I can provide you some examples. Ken

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2013, 01:14:12 PM »

Thanks Ken,

I think the wing is out of the question on this one. However I could mount it in a tube up front. Where do you buy your T-8 tubes?

Ron

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2013, 09:30:40 PM »

Wing and tail covered and fuse painted.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #16 on:** August 26, 2013, 06:02:15 AM »

Ron, if you have a Lowe's, they're just easier to find within the store vs Home Depot. Home Depot does carry them, but around these parts, they're not in the lightbulb section but directly in the electrical aisle. For some reason, Home Depot stocks the T-10 tubes in the light bulb section in a 10 qty. Lowe's keeps them in the lightbulb section and they're individually marked. Here's the link for Lowe's http://www.lowes.com/pd_280611-337-LTG04T8_0__?Ntt=t-8+light+guards&UserSearch=t8+light+guards&productId=1208471&rpp=32 A clean cut can easily be done with a sharp pair of scissors. Ken

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #17 on:** August 26, 2013, 07:07:31 AM »

Quote from: Ron Cribbs on August 25, 2013, 01:14:12 PM

Thanks Ken,

I think the wing is out of the question on this one. However I could mount it in a tube up front. Where do you buy your T-8 tubes?

Ron

Ron, I've had good luck with old 35mm film cans. I epoxy a hard mount on the fuse to screw the can to. Drill out the end to feed the fuel line throug. Size the hole so it takes a bit of pressure to get the nipple throug and the bladder will be quite secure.

Jim

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #18 on:** August 26, 2013, 09:36:53 AM »

I like it Jim. How much fuel does it hold? I am looking for at least an oz.

Now where can I find 35mm canisters...

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #19 on:** August 26, 2013, 10:33:23 AM »

Quote from: Ron Cribbs on August 26, 2013, 09:36:53 AM

I like it Jim. How much fuel does it hold? I am looking for at least an oz.

Now where can I find 35mm canisters...

If you are near a camera store they will usually give you a bag full for free. It holds as much as you want. The cans circumference is just big enough to hold the bladder, the more you fill it the more that hangs out the open end in back.

Jim

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #20 on:** August 26, 2013, 10:54:33 AM »

Quote from: kenneth cook on August 26, 2013, 06:02:15 AM

Ron, if you have a Lowe's, they're just easier to find within the store vs Home Depot. Home Depot does carry them, but around these parts, they're not in the lightbulb section but directly in the electrical aisle. For some reason, Home Depot stocks the T-10 tubes in the light bulb section in a 10 qty. Lowe's keeps them in the lightbulb section and they're individually marked. Here's the link for Lowe's http://www.lowes.com/pd_280611-337-LTG04T8_0__?Ntt=t-8+light+guards&UserSearch=t8+light+guards&productId=1208471&rpp=32 A clean cut can easily be done with a sharp pair of scissors. Ken

Thanks Ken,

Between you and Jim I think I might be all set!

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #21 on:** August 28, 2013, 10:12:07 PM »

Slow going this week guys, Ragweed has exploded in Oklahoma and I have been so miserable that I had to go get a steroid shot this morning. That and work is unrelenting. I did manage to cut flaps and paint out the cockpit. Here is a picture.

I have no idea what to do for hinges. I really want to use pin hinges, but the wood is so thin I don't think I can pull it off. I am horrible with sewn hinges so I will probably settle on CA hinges.

Ron

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2013, 07:54:34 AM »

Forget the CA type hinges. They are way too stiff for control line use. Do a search on here for sewn hinges. It is not that hard to do.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #23 on:** August 29, 2013, 08:48:08 AM »

Look at my Baby Super Clown thread, the sewn hinges on the flaps are easy to see.

I have a guide made of drink can stock which is just a piece folded at right angles. It has a set of guide holes poked in it.

I slip this into the gap and poke holes through the wing and flap with a pin. Make sure you shift the guide half a space between the two surfaces so it alternates smoothly.

After that, doing the hinges is easy. Just thread through the first hole and CA the thread in that one. Now you can pull the rest of the loops nice and tight. CA them all when you have the full set threaded.

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #24 on:** August 29, 2013, 08:48:50 PM »

Ok, i'll try some sewn hinges. Let's hope I don't screw it up this time.

Ron

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #25 on:** August 30, 2013, 09:41:35 PM »

Ok,

Managed to do a few things today. Going fishing in the AM so once again things need to be set aside. My little man has been begging for me to take him so I finally gave in.

Here is the Baby Clown at the moment. Still need to stitch the hinges and connect everything up. I am not sure I have the stitched hinge thing figured out, but I am willing to try.

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #26 on:** August 31, 2013, 09:44:18 PM »

Here is my attempt at stitched hinges. Dental floss was recommended, but I only had the waxed kind. Dacron I had a ton of!

Ron

RknRusty · « **Reply #27 on:** September 01, 2013, 07:27:07 AM »

That'll work, they look fine, and they're really strong. If you know you're going to sew them before you cover it, you can run a strip of film over the edges of the surfaces for extra reinforcement.
Rusty

john e. holliday · « **Reply #28 on:** September 01, 2013, 08:37:47 AM »

That looks better than some of my thread hinging. Wasn't so hard now, was it?

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #29 on:** September 01, 2013, 09:39:46 PM »

Nope, not hard at all John!

They are also super flexible. Wish I had done them on other planes.

Here is a couple near complete pictures and one just for fun!

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #30 on:** September 02, 2013, 07:41:35 PM »

Ok guys,

Here's how it went down. Set up everything and promptly blew 2 bladders in quick succession! My brilliant son said " I am going to get my goggles" after the first one blew. Not dumb old dad though....

After I had the bladder sorted I got it going, but the run was horrible. I flew it out and launched again just a touch leaner. This time it went like gangbusters however it's a new plane so I had to learn how to fly it again. Basically I did some outsides and insides and a few horrible horiz and vert eights.

I launched again and this time it ran like crap and I flew it out only to notice my engine dangling by one bolt! Crap! failed pre-flight....

Anyway that ended the day. Few observations....Flaps make the plane turn stupid quick, great for sport, but not for contest flying. Going to have to desensitize the already desensitized controls. TD's on pressure burn fuel much quicker! 3/4 oz in just under 2 minutes. Lastly she is slightly tail heavy! Made for a wild ride when the fuel was almost gone.

No video today boys, it was more of a shakedown than anything. I will grab some new hardware/rebalance and go at it again.

Here are the standard oily pics!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #31 on:** September 03, 2013, 11:01:36 AM »

Did the bolts break or did they come loose and fall out. I use blind/t-nuts on my planes. On the profiles without the cheek piece of balsa I also put a nut on and tighten it. But, you know now that on new planes to check all bolts for tightness after a flight.

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #32 on:** September 03, 2013, 11:10:14 AM »

Just plain came loose John. I reused the original Brodak hardware, but I didn't put a dab of CA on the threads after I tightened it. I agree blind nuts and locknuts are the way to go. That's what I use on my Fox engines and they are known shakers. Never had a problem with those.

Ron

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #33 on:** September 04, 2013, 08:37:30 PM »

Video as promised!

I didn't fly the OTS pattern though I did do most of the maneuvers (albeit poorly) My camera person needs to be fired....

http://www.youtube.com/v/0tHV6vLeeNo

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2013, 02:44:57 PM »

Now that I have flown this thing for a while now, I have a small problem that is more of an annoyance than a problem. It likes to come in a little on figure 8's. It's not doing it to the point where it is uncontrollable, but kind of like the lines get a little slack and then a jerk and then slack, jerk etc. sort of a pop, pop, pop but without the sound. It's very strange and it usually only happens when I scrub off airspeed during consecutives. Any ideas?

Ron

john e. holliday · « **Reply #35 on:** October 18, 2013, 08:53:42 AM »

Flying too fast. Take free arm and grab your shirt front to get it out of the way. Also try not to over control when changing directions.

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #36 on:** October 18, 2013, 09:31:08 AM »

Your funny John. Yeah, it is a bit too fast. I am running a 6x3 on the TD, but it still goes crazy. You may be right about the over controlling as I have to think fast and react quick to keep from putting it into the ground. I need to add about 7ft of line, but my trees won't allow it.

Ron

Larry Renger · « **Reply #37 on:** October 18, 2013, 10:33:28 AM »

Try an APC 6x2. It will slow things down but prevent speed loss in consecutive maneuvers.

I found that my plane would drop the outboard wing in square corners no matter how I fiddled with tip weight. Yesterday I cut 1" off the outer end of the inboard flap and made it a fixed trim tab.

I plan to fly it Sunday and will report on how it goes.

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #38 on:** October 18, 2013, 09:50:32 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on October 18, 2013, 10:33:28 AM

Try an APC 6x2. It will slow things down but prevent speed loss in consecutive maneuvers.

I found that my plane would drop the outboard wing in square corners no matter how I fiddled with tip weight. Yesterday I cut 1" off the outer end of the inboard flap and made it a fixed trim tab.

I plan to fly it Sunday and will report on how it goes.

Thanks Larry,

I got on the APC site and was one click from making the order when I saw that shipping was going to be more than the props. I contacted APC and they said they would work on it.

Let us know how that trim tab works out. I may have the same problem due to the out board wing having an ever so slight up tilt from a mishap with a tree. It doesn't appear to be causing a problem, but it just may be.

Ron

Larry Renger · « **Reply #39 on:** October 19, 2013, 09:21:12 AM »

Tower has APC props and I expect shipping is a lot cheaper.

RknRusty · « **Reply #40 on:** October 19, 2013, 08:37:11 PM »

I agree, that APC 6x2 is how I pack my baby streaks,Tee Dee and Big Mig, into the church yard on 35' lines.
You'll love it. The engine will really love it.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #41 on:** October 20, 2013, 07:58:57 AM »

Need to get some as the 6-3 really spins me into the ground on mouse race lines.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #42 on:** October 20, 2013, 02:29:21 PM »

The tab is about 1.25" long. It almost completely cured the problem. The next one will be 3/16 longer, I think. The next thing to try is trimming the inboard flap narrower 1/32" at a time until the flip n dip disappears.

Currently the handle is the latest hard point exponential from RSM, set to minimum spacing. It may need to be spaced out one set of holes.

I don't recall who said this truth first, but " You are finished trimming a stunter when the last scrap goes in the dumpster"!

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #43 on:** October 20, 2013, 08:59:40 PM »

Thanks for the replies everyone. I busted a 10x5 prop on Saturday so I'll add that to the list. I'll also take a look on Tower and see what they have. I am a little excited to see what a 2 pitch prop will do. Rusty had recommended one before, but I was too lazy to pull the trigger.

Thanks for the info on the trim tab Larry. It may be the answer.

Ron

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #44 on:** October 23, 2013, 09:27:15 PM »

I received my APC 6x2 props today. Shipping was only $1.99 from Tower. Thanks Larry!

I'll let ya'll know how it goes

Ron

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #45 on:** October 24, 2013, 06:32:17 PM »

6x2! You rock!

That made it much more manageable. Thanks for the push I needed to get some. Rusty told me months ago to try it and I wasn't sure it would make a difference. I still have the tug even though I have slowed things down. Maybe it's time for a trim tab.

Ron

Larry Renger · « **Reply #46 on:** October 24, 2013, 08:30:17 PM »

We aim to please! Glad it is working for you!