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Author Topic: 1/2A P38?  (Read 1845 times)

Offline david beazley

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1/2A P38?
« on: October 31, 2009, 05:43:31 PM »
Can anyone recomend a P38 kit or plans for 2-1/2A engines?  I have a pair of Norvel's looking for a plane to hang on to.
It's only paranoia if they aren't really after you.
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 06:46:05 PM »
        There is a p-38 on Ebay currently. The kits go under a name Beeaircraft company. This person is making a twin .049 version of the p-38 and also one using .020's. The starting bid is $ 49.99 for the auction. I've seen these on here a few times . You can find it just by typing in control line kits and scroll down. This is a neat looking plane and I was wondering if it stunted. Ken

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 09:39:53 PM »
David, I just don't think you will find either kit or plan that will do the Norvels justice. Are these .049 or .061?

You see most any kit or plan for half A would be designed for the Cox Baby Bee or the earlier and even less powerful 049s of the day and that day was 30-40 years ago.
Sterling kitted one for two Baby Bees and Scientific had one that had a single Cox Baby Bee shown. Good luck finding either of these kits though I have seen the Sterling show up from time to time on Ebay.

The kit Ken refers to is modern  but still too small for the much more powerful Norvels.

I have been toying with the P-38 in my mind here lately myself. I am leaning more toward a single engine for simplicity like the Scientific Model. I have a very poor, very low quality image of the Scientific instruction sheet.

Ken, I just don't think that one will stunt because it looks like a low wing area, high wing load model. Of course I could be wrong as I have not seen it in person.

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Trostle

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 10:36:13 PM »
Can anyone recomend a P38 kit or plans for 2-1/2A engines?  I have a pair of Norvel's looking for a plane to hang on to.

You might want to contact Chris McMillan who frequents these forums.  His 13 year old son Michael entered a P-38 in the recent 1/2A multi-engine profile scale contest here in Tucson several weeks ago.  He placed third in the unlimited class (with throttles)against some good competition.  His model was a decent size to handle the power of the twin Norvel .061's.  Pictures of it can be seen on the Stuka Stunt Works forum.  I think pictures did appear on this forum once but seem to have disappeared.  The results of that contest are posted  elsewhere on this forum.

As has been suggested, most profile kits presently available were probably designed along the line of the old scientific kits, were for the less powerful engines of those days and would not do justice for the power available from the Norvels.  So, check with Chris as to the origin of his son's design.

Keith

ADDED:

Checkout Michael's P-38 on this forum at

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=14588.msg131982#new

(Another ADDED item)

Photos are on this forum in the Open and Scale sections.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 01:10:03 PM by Trostle »

Offline david beazley

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 04:27:02 AM »
I have PM'ed Chris to see if plans are available.  I will post the results.  Thanks for the input.
It's only paranoia if they aren't really after you.
Analog man trapped in a digital world
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Offline Victor Jeffreys

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2009, 06:14:47 AM »
My recollection of the Sterling profile P-38 is that it was designed for twin .049s to .099s, and visually it looked OK for Norvel .061s. I'd say that it has moderate stunt capabilities.

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2009, 09:22:35 AM »
My recollection of the Sterling profile P-38 is that it was designed for twin .049s to .099s, and visually it looked OK for Norvel .061s. I'd say that it has moderate stunt capabilities.

Actually the Sterling kit S-14 P-38 was for twin 049 engines and Sterling also produced a 36" span P-38 kit # S-17 for engines of .09-.15 cid.

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2009, 09:50:43 AM »
I suspect that the .09-.15 version would be about the right size.  The Twin Flite Streak that Stan Tyler flies is 340 sq.in.  with twin Tee Dee .051s.  It has more power than it needs.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2009, 01:44:08 PM »
I suspect that the .09-.15 version would be about the right size.  The Twin Flite Streak that Stan Tyler flies is 340 sq.in.  with twin Tee Dee .051s.  It has more power than it needs.

I agree with the right size but Sterling and so many others had extra heavy wood ! I bet it also has 3/8" sq. maple engine bearers too. Not something you want for a pair of Norvels.

Take the outline and use lighter wood, Less ply, smaller engine bearers and, well Pretty much a total redesign with lighter and smaller materials and it would probably be just what you want.

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2009, 08:55:04 PM »
Yes, lightening a Lightning is in order.  To be Leprechaun legal, only the 3-view need be accurate.  Of course, as far as I know, we only fly 1cc/Leprechaun here in SOCAL.  (A pity, actually!)
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline david beazley

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2009, 01:05:14 PM »
Here is Chris' reply to my inquiry:

Hi Dave,
It's actually a Sterling 36" P-38 Stunter wing and horizontal, the one that is .09 to .15 sized. I traced the booms, pod and verticals from the Fighter Airplanes of WWII book. It's the one that's from the series that has beautiful Watanabe airbrush art work. (I'm on a trip and I can send you the author and exact title later, if you want.)
The reason I went this route is that the elevation at Tucson (2700 feet) with an 11 year old builder/pilot on the original Norvel .049's needed additional square area than the scale wing and tail shapes and sizes.

He changed engines to the Wasp .061's this year, and that really changed the model's handling from marginal to reliable. The five practice flights on Saturday and one official flight on Sunday were his only C/L flights of the year! I believe one could build a completely scale P-38 with the .061's and have a good flying model. Not as good as the stunt wing, but good enough for Scale events.

I think the Sterling P-38 wing is a great flyer and really has good high lift performance, but an accurate shape for the wing and tail for a Scale model can fly well if the airfoil is sufficiently thick. I would go with a scale airfoil and cheat it about a 1/16th thicker at the root and a little thicker towards the tips, like about 3/32nd's because of it's super narrow wingtips.

I never drew plans but I have the tracings I think.
It's only paranoia if they aren't really after you.
Analog man trapped in a digital world
AMA # 2817

Offline John Crocker

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 03:48:48 PM »
As far as stunting goes:

Not a scale p-38 by any means, but this was my "Confederate" that I built a couple years ago, general idea was a from a P-38 with a Ringmasters general dims scaled to fit (sort of).  Basically I threw it together and it turned out cool and flew awesome.

42" wingspan, something like 300 square.  Power was 2 .061 Wasps.  All up weight was right at 17 oz.  Plane pulled with AUTHORITY on 45' Spiderwire and was a dream to fly.  Unfortunately it bet its demise thanks to some little punks in my neighborhood.  Only got about 30 flights but have thought of making another many times, I just don't have any of the tracings or parts.






Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2009, 06:41:19 PM »
John, wasn't that the original "droopy diamond" airfoil?  Or was it that green thing?

Anyhow, a great looking plane.  You should definitely build another.  But don't leave it sitting on your front porch.
--Ray 
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Offline John Crocker

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2009, 07:02:29 PM »
Nah, the Green Giant was the first plane I flew with the Droopy diamond (and it was heavy and flew well), which was the result of a project from when I was in college as a physics project.  We were looking at making physical measurements of lift on different wing shapes and the DD was originally drawn up on a napkin at Mitches Tavern (the pub from "Bull Durham") after a half dozen pints of Fosters Lager.  As you have found out, from our studies we found that if the DD was used with no sheeting and VERY tight covering, it generates an insane amount of lift

That was why I used it on the Confederate, I knew it was going to be a big plane and I wanted it to howl.  Can't remember why I moved away from it, cause it really does work well and its super easy to build.


Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: 1/2A P38?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2009, 08:28:51 PM »
Absolutely.  I've built it into combat wings, stunt ships and sport models. .010s to .061s. I consider it a true innovation.  Lotsa lift, lotsa speed, lotsa stability. Easy to build warp-free.  What's not to like?  The appearance I guess.
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
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