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Author Topic: My first balloon tank  (Read 6938 times)

Offline Steve Thornton

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My first balloon tank
« on: March 14, 2015, 02:15:35 AM »
I'm building a Baby Flite Streak and have thought way too much about the type of tank to use with my TD 051.  I like the hard tanks, but Rusty and some others that know, tell me that the bladder is the way to go, but the set up is intimidating for a newbie like me, so  I read about the balloon tanks and was wondering if they would work okay with the TD.  Here is the way I set up my first balloon tank for my TD.  I first put holes in some fuel tubing, inserted the hard tubing into that, and put the assembly into the balloon.  That goes into the hotel size shampoo bottle, which has the bottom cut out.  Do you think this will work okay?  Any advice or help would be appreciated.
Thank you mucho,
Steve
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton


Offline ray copeland

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 03:39:21 AM »
Steve, you will love how these "tanks" work, I made up 5 spares last night. I use a 2 oz syringe to fill with, be sure to draw the balloon flat removing all the air before filling it and then only fill enough making sure it is not expanded too much as to have pressure forcing the fuel out. The balloons last quite a while, I wish I could figure out a way to use them on full size models. So far I been able to get a little over an ounce in a 9 inch size balloon, that barely gets me thru the pattern with a norvel .061.   Good luck!
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2015, 09:51:22 AM »
I think the balloon you are using will give you a partial pressure run, followed by a long no-pressure run.  This would not be an acceptable run as the engine will run "lean" for a long time.

If you want pressure, use bladder tubing such as Texas Timers sells. 

If you want a slack balloon, make sure the balloon is large enough that it is not stretched when full of fuel.

The basics of your setup are very similar to my system.  I punch a hole in the bottom of the bottle and cut the top away, the bottom is pointed forward.

Phil

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2015, 11:53:22 AM »
+1 what Phil said -- you're betwixt and between.  I've never run a TD, but my understanding is that they don't do suction well, while Medallions do.  So you probably want to either run a bladder and your current engine, or a slack balloon and a Medallion.
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2015, 01:32:16 PM »
A stock intake on a TD draws ok.  Very sensitive to tank position though, sensitive enough that a high tank will likely stall inverted...

Phil

Offline Jim Roselle

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2015, 04:18:10 PM »
Running a Texas Timers style bladder turned out to be far easier than I thought it would be. My Tee Dees run so well on a bladder I can't imagine using anything else now.

Jim

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2015, 03:52:10 AM »
One reason I have focused on the balloon instead of the bladder is for lack of space up front on the Baby Flite Streak.  The set up I have now will have to go on the inside of the fuselage, and is about 1.5' across.  Seems like whole bunch of drag, but the bladder set up seems to be "snaked" around the wing.  On a full fuse it seems possible to hide the bladder or balloon.  If the Tee Dee would do well with a metal or plastic tank I would go that route, but I'm not going for high performance at this point, just learning to do basic aerobatics and have some fun. Sure would like to see more of your photos!
Thanks again,
Steve
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2015, 03:58:10 AM »
Steve, you will love how these "tanks" work, I made up 5 spares last night. I use a 2 oz syringe to fill with, be sure to draw the balloon flat removing all the air before filling it and then only fill enough making sure it is not expanded too much as to have pressure forcing the fuel out. The balloons last quite a while, I wish I could figure out a way to use them on full size models. So far I been able to get a little over an ounce in a 9 inch size balloon, that barely gets me thru the pattern with a norvel .061.   Good luck!

Ray are you using a long balloon or a round one that's 9"?  I have some large round ones, 3" or so and that seems really big.  I can get about 1oz. before expansion starts.  Better do a balloon recon of the local party stores!
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton

Offline ray copeland

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2015, 07:12:53 AM »
I run the larger balloons on .061 and the smaller on.049 norvels.
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline ray copeland

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2015, 07:14:16 AM »
Bag for large balloons says 9 inch
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2015, 05:40:22 PM »
Thanks Ray those look great.  What are you using for the container on the red plane?  I have wondered whether the shape of the container matters...seems that if the balloon is allowed to stretch at all, it becomes a pressure bladder??
Steve
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton

Offline ray copeland

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2015, 07:12:42 AM »
When room allows I use a Sig 6 inch canopy cut to shape  on profiles to support the balloon. 
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline eric rule

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2015, 11:02:32 AM »
Larry Renger is the guy you want to talk to about balloon tanks. He runs them in all of his non-electric 1/2A ships.

Here's what he designed for me to use in the Pinto , Hunter & Sky Streak kits we send out and also for GRW Balloon Tanks we sell.

Fuel capacity is 1-1/2 oz and the balloon is not expanded so no pressure feed.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2015, 05:26:24 PM »
Larry Renger is the guy you want to talk to about balloon tanks. He runs them in all of his non-electric 1/2A ships.

Here's what he designed for me to use in the Pinto , Hunter & Sky Streak kits we send out and also for GRW Balloon Tanks we sell.

Fuel capacity is 1-1/2 oz and the balloon is not expanded so no pressure feed.

Hi there.  I was wondering if the 'Pinto' kit mentioned is the one I have posted a picture of the plans?  I know it will probably be the new release kit, but would it be the same plane?  Reason for asking is that I am scratch building one from plans and was in process of building the tank on the plans, but would like something simpler to construct.  I will however more than likely put it in a film tank anyways.  Thank you.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2015, 05:29:08 PM »
Oops.  Forgot the picture.

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2015, 06:39:17 PM »
Hi there.  I was wondering if the 'Pinto' kit mentioned is the one I have posted a picture of the plans?  I know it will probably be the new release kit, but would it be the same plane?  Reason for asking is that I am scratch building one from plans and was in process of building the tank on the plans, but would like something simpler to construct.  I will however more than likely put it in a film tank anyways.  Thank you.

http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Tips.html
at the bottom of the page is a link to the "George Aldrich" tank. Download it, import it into something that can resize it (most word processors can do it, kinda kludgy though, but effective), and poke it to the correct dimensions.  Print it out. Spray glue to some sheet metal, and have at it.  Making a wood plug to form over is a choice too.

Phil

Offline RknRusty

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2015, 07:27:30 PM »
Hi Steve
I think your balloon is well worth a try. I've done it with the 9" party balloons. If you seem like you're having suction problems, try putting a Medallion carb body on the Tee Dee and that should solve your fuel draw problems. It'll still have more power than a Medallion but cranking and running will be easier.

One of these days when you feel like making the leap to pressure bladders, you'll be glad you did. I don't even house them anymore, just let them lay on top of the wing, and keep it from flopping with a string You have watched my
How-To videos haven't you? I've simplified it some since I made them, and Jim Roselle has refined it some more too.

I always enjoy reading about your projects.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2015, 01:40:35 PM »
   ...
AMA 11416

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2015, 01:59:15 PM »
Hi Steve
I think your balloon is well worth a try. I've done it with the 9" party balloons. If you seem like you're having suction problems, try putting a Medallion carb body on the Tee Dee and that should solve your fuel draw problems. It'll still have more power than a Medallion but cranking and running will be easier.

One of these days when you feel like making the leap to pressure bladders, you'll be glad you did. I don't even house them anymore, just let them lay on top of the wing, and keep it from flopping with a string You have watched my
How-To videos haven't you? I've simplified it some since I made them, and Jim Roselle has refined it some more too.

I always enjoy reading about your projects.
Rust
Thanks Rusty I have learned a lot from you.  Will the medallion body accept the needle I'm using on the TD and would it be a bad idea to use a metal tank with that set up?  BTW I have  2 balloon tanks & some bladders I made from Texas Timers materials but need to put them on the test stand to get comfy with starting etc. I'll let you know how it goes.

"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2015, 02:06:19 PM »
John that's abeautiful airplane!
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton

Offline RknRusty

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2015, 03:41:52 PM »
Steve, I don't actually know if the TD needle will fit in the medallion spraybar. Probably. I think the needle from most of the tankless Bee backplates will fit as long as it's not a fine thread one. I'm going out to the shop later to pack my planes for Joe Nall tomorrow. If I get a chance I'll see what fits.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2015, 06:54:22 PM »
   ...Hey Steve, I can only take credit for the picture. The plane doesn't belong to me. I took it at the NATS. Everyone likes pictures, so I thought with this one and a case of Dr. PEPPER  Chancey might  get into "SPARKY BUILDING SPEED" and it would get done a little quicker.  Cheers,  John
AMA 11416

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2015, 10:49:36 AM »
Steve, I can't say for sure, but I'm thinking the TD needle isn't going to work in the Medallion spray bar.  If I remember to, I'll try it out tonight and see if it works.  I did run a Medallion yesterday with a needle from a product engine.  Worked our fine.

Mark

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2015, 11:28:42 AM »
Steve, I can't say for sure, but I'm thinking the TD needle isn't going to work in the Medallion spray bar.  If I remember to, I'll try it out tonight and see if it works.  I did run a Medallion yesterday with a needle from a product engine.  Worked our fine.

Mark
[/quote

Thanks Mark, I think I have the original and a Medallion venturi housing if so, I'll be in good shape.
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton

Offline RknRusty

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 05:43:46 PM »
Ah man, I forgot to look. Got involved preflighting my planes, sorry. Maybe Mark will come back and answer before I get back out there.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline Mark Mc

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2015, 11:10:14 PM »
Yeah, as I thought. They aren't interchangeable.  They both seem to have the same TPI, but the diameter of the TD needle is fatter, and the needle profile is different.




Mark

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2015, 10:51:46 PM »
Thanks guys.  I' m on vacation and won't be in the shop for a week or so, but I'm already itchin to get back to it.  I plan to put my TD and Norvel on the test stand & see how they run in various configurations as well as some run times.
Steve
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton

Offline RknRusty

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2015, 01:11:54 AM »
Steve, have fun on vacation and forget about all that stuff back home. It's good for the mind to vacate all of your regular daily thoughts.

In my experience, a Big Mig .061 runs a lot longer on the same amount of fuel as a Tee Dee .049. In the air anyway.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: My first balloon tank
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2015, 11:55:29 PM »
Thanks Rusty,  I'm having a great time and meeting a lot of new friends and neighbors.  It is sure nice to see some trees and lakes and especially fine flying fields.  Be home in a couple of days and get into the shop.
Steve
"Most of us won't make it out of this world alive."
Steve Thornton


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