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Author Topic: Midwest Mini Warbirds  (Read 1617 times)

Offline Juan Valentin

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Midwest Mini Warbirds
« on: March 04, 2019, 05:26:38 PM »
      I would like to know if anybody has plans or tracings of the Midwest mini warbirds. There were four of them,The P-51,P-40,P-39 and the Me-109.  I think they were designed by Vince Micchia. Here is a pic of the P-51 Mustang. The plans on the kit only show a fuse side view that I can scale up but don`t have the wings or tail feathers. All information will be appreciated. I added the pic of the P-40 which is the one I would like to find tracings of the parts or plan.


Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 10:48:40 PM »
Cool,I didnít remember them. I hope someone has the kits and will publish plans.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan

BTW, Dracula Sucks!

A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2019, 02:13:14 PM »
            Juan, I have the P-39 and the ME-109. Both are built. I should be getting into the shop tonight. I can offer wingspan. The mount Midwest used was very brittle on these planes and mine are broke. I used a Sterling nylon mount on the ME -109.

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2019, 06:59:41 PM »
Hello Kenneth
                        I will appreciate your information as it would help me in building one. I have been able to find information on the book written by Dick Sarpolus  Building and Flying control line model Aircraft. In one page it show a photo of all the parts in the kit. I scanned the picture and went to a local copy place and was able to enlarge it so I would have a 21 inch wingspan print of the wing and all the other parts. I know is not going to be accurate but it will be close. I`m just doing the P-40 for fun.  I`m going to try to some stunts with it. Engine will be a Cox Production motor with plastic mount. By the way how well they fly?
                                                                                                                                                                         Juan
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 08:27:27 PM by Juan Valentin »

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2019, 07:25:12 PM »
The Brodak1/2 A mount is very good. I designed it  :D
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan

BTW, Dracula Sucks!

A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2019, 08:25:41 PM »
Hello Larry
                            I will buy some next time I order, Thanks for the advice.
                                                                                                                               Juan

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2019, 06:00:56 PM »
            Juan, the ME -109 has a wingspan of 20 1/4". The wing chord is 4 1/2" at the root and 3 1/2" at the tip. This wing has leading edge sweep and trailing edge sweep. It appears that the trailing edge has more than the leading edge. I would start with a 1/2" of trailing edge sweep and calculate the tip from there.  The stab is 10" with a total width at it's widest point being 3 1/8". The front half of the stab is 1 3/4" at the root and 1" at the tip . Bellcrank pivot point is 1 1/2" from leading edge at root and 5/8" off of fuse.  leadouts exit wingtips at 1 1/4"-2 7/8".

           P-39 uses identical stab and the wing is darn near the same with the exception of the tips. wingspan is identical. Root width is 4 3/8" and tip is 3 1/2". It appears that the leading edge uses a 1/4" of sweep at the tips and measure from there.

                I fly the ME-109 with no gear and it does pretty well considering it's a plank wing. The P-39 with it's trike gear is a lot more draggy but it seems to loop fairly well and inverted. I think if I was to do outsides, it might get a bit ugly. I use a Black Widow on the P-39 and a single ported Golden Bee which is extremely anemic on the ME -109. Fun planes to build and fly.

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2019, 06:50:24 PM »
Hello Kenneth
                          Thanks for the information, I already started construction of the P-40 but need to do the wing. I will be looking for a nice sraight piece of 1/8 balsa to use in the plane. Here is what I have done. I made two set of engine mount spacers, one to use with the landing gear an another to fly without it.  Engine is a sure start .
                                                                                                                                                  Juan

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2019, 09:44:02 PM »

 Looks great Juan! Neat little project, please keep us posted on progress!
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2019, 10:49:33 PM »
           Juan, as usual your work excels in every way. I use the Sure Start engines quite a bit. If you haven't done so already, just check the ball socket as they tend to be very loose when new. I have also found the Gray backplate to crack in the area where the spraybar passes through just from vibration.

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 04:32:39 PM »
Hello Kenneth
                             Thanks for the advice on the sure start engine, I will take it apart before I finally install it on the plane. I have done the wing and controls and have it together for this photos now comes the hard part of sanding and painting also I need to make a small gas tank and mount it before I start the painting.weight at this time is 5.1 oz but still lacks tip weight,gas tank,paint and leadouts. here are some pics of my progress.
                                                                                                                                                                                     Juan

P.s. I lowered the elevator by about 3/8 of an inch in hopes to be able to do outside loops.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 04:52:20 PM by Juan Valentin »

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2019, 04:42:08 PM »
 
Here are side views of the two other Midwest mini warbirds on this series the P-39 Aircobra and the Me 109.
                                                                                                                                                                    Juan

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2019, 10:47:51 PM »
Too cute, Juan!

Do you have templates for the wings, stabs and elevators on all these plans? If so, please share.

I'm watching to see what your all-up weight is with the P-40, especially if it loops! I have a Scientific P-40 with a built up wing, and it'll plow into the ground if I try to loop it. Either I built a flying brick, or I have some serious CG issues.

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2019, 06:59:00 PM »

   Hello Jim
                       I have none of the plans. I started this thread looking for plans and or tracings of the parts of the P-40. The side views I have posted are from a Plan Book published by the AMA in the past maybe 1980`s. I found a picture of the P-40 kit contents in a book called Building and Flying control line model Aircraft by Dick Sarpolus and worked from that to build mine. I took the side view from the small plan I have and using a printer enlarged it. Using as a guide the size of the wheels I enlarged the plan until I had wheel that was 1 1/8 inch in the side view of the plane. The plans state the wingspan to be 21 inch. Using the view of the P-40 kit parts in the Sarpolus book I again enlarged the picture until I ended with a 21 inch wing. I also got the shape of the elevator from that pic. The plane I have built is not an exact copy of the kit. If I find more information I will post it here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Juan

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2019, 09:22:33 PM »
Juan,
With what little you had to work with, you knocked it out of the park! At this point I'm a plans junkie. I mean, I've even paid for digital copies of parts of plans!
So I guess I can keep waiting...it's not like I have nothing to build. In fact, I'm so deep in partially started kit, unstarted kits, printed plans, digital plans, my wife keeps telling me I can't die and leave her to "get rid of the junk." Her words, not mine!
I'll be watching this thread eagerly awaiting the test flight, and hoping someone comes along and finishes adding to the drawings/plans.
Thanks for your efforts!

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2019, 05:47:19 PM »
 
                       I have been doing some work sealing the wood for the painting process, I have done it twice and I`m getting ready to sand for a second time. I always like to give time to the sealer to be really dry. I still need to do a gas tank and mount it to the plane before paint. Here are some pics showing tip weight washer per plans,leadout guide and plane after 2nd coat of sealer.
                                                                                                                                                              juan

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2019, 07:07:58 PM »
Drool! Gimme a bib!

Offline goozgog

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 04:56:33 AM »
Hey Juan,

      I've been experimenting with tanks
mounted on the inside of profile planes.
It works consistently better so I don't
understand why it isn't standard practice.

   Looking at your P-40, and since you're
going to make a tank anyway, a
"dog leg" wedge tank would fit neatly
on the port side and be closer to an
optimum shape.
  I use copper tube to pass the fuel feed
through the fuselage. It keeps things
short and neat.

Just something to consider.

Cheers! - K.

 

Keith Morgan

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 10:13:51 AM »
Hey Juan,

      I've been experimenting with tanks
mounted on the inside of profile planes.
It works consistently better so I don't
understand why it isn't standard practice.

   Looking at your P-40, and since you're
going to make a tank anyway, a
"dog leg" wedge tank would fit neatly
on the port side and be closer to an
optimum shape.
  I use copper tube to pass the fuel feed
through the fuselage. It keeps things
short and neat.

Just something to consider.

Cheers! - K.

 

Pictures?

Offline goozgog

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2019, 09:37:27 AM »
Hello Mark,

   I don't want to hijack Juan's build
thread, so I'll wait to see his reply
before I offer any pictures.

Cheers! - K
Keith Morgan

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2019, 11:40:42 AM »
Mark MC,

Can you describe what you mean by "dog leg?"

TIA

Offline goozgog

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2019, 02:49:27 PM »
That was me Jim, not Mark.

  "Dog leg" just means that it would have a
wedge shape end that fits around the engine mount.
Nothing fancy.

  I think Juan would need to flip the gray
back plate over to get the NVA inlet on
the best side.

  Cheers! - K.
   
Keith Morgan

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2019, 03:59:24 PM »

         Hello Keith
                                Thanks for the advice on the tank location. I have seen the work you have done on the Balsa cox spitfire and Top flite .049  P-47 and I liked what you have done, Excellent work. I can`t place the tank on the inside since I shaped the firewall to fit the sure star and used blind nuts to hold the engine and Landing gear. I made an oblong wedge gas tank to go on the outside and be inline with the needle valve so when I go inverted it will hopefully would run the same as right side up the tank weights 12.84grams and will hold 1/2 ounce of fuel. I haven`t done much lately still waiting for the firs two coats to dry fully. Here is a pic of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Juan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2019, 04:34:31 PM »
That's really nice Juan !

  It looks exactly like what I was imagining
except on the outside.
 
   Please let us know how it works
for you. There are millions of these engines
and we need to sort out the best configuration.

Cheers! - K.
   
 
Keith Morgan

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2019, 04:43:28 PM »
That was me Jim, not Mark.

Sorry, Keith! I did a drive-by texting while at work...
 H^^

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2019, 09:46:13 AM »

           I decided to check the alignment of the flying surfaces and engine a little late since I should have done it before gluing the wing and stabilizer but I was very lucky and the flying surfaces were Ok, not so the engine which had a few degrees of positive incidence. I placed the airplane on a level surface and used my Robart incidence meter to make sure it was at 0 degrees.  Since you can`t use anything heavy to check alignment I used some bubble levels I removed from a Stanley torpedo level. I glued them to pieces of 1/64 ply so the wouldn`t roll. After gluing you place them on a level surface check the bubble and turn it 180 degrees to make sure bubble is centered both ways.  I took a piece 1 1/2 inch of aluminum angle cut a 1/2 inch piece drilled a hole to use the prop screw to hold it in place in the engine crankshaft,make sure you have a 90 degree angle check it with a square. I loosened the glow head and got the piston to the top then I tightened it so the crankshaft would stay put. then I placed a bubble level on it and noticed that I had positive incidence on the engine. I was not careful enough when I glued the firewall  but I will be sanding the spacer blocks I used to mount the engine to get  zero to one negative degree. I already gave the engine mount side thrust when building. Here are some pics.
                                                                                                                                                Juan
           

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2019, 03:11:05 PM »
             I have sanded and applied white primer to the P-40. will be sanding to get ready for paint.  I have not glued the rudder or installed elevator,I will be using nylon hinges applied with epoxy.here is pic.
                                                                                                                                                                           Juan
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 08:56:53 AM by Juan Valentin »

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2019, 01:17:34 PM »

        I have been sanding the P-40 trying to remove as much primer as I can using a small sanding block with 400 grit sandpaper dry. The primer I used is Transtar  4633 white. The sands easy and powders good, I have been using a toothbrush to clean the sand paper and replacing it often. I stick the sand paper to my sanding block using 3m double sided tape. I have sanded until I the primer is real thin and I start to see the wood. I still have small places to sand and hope to be able to star painting tomorrow. Weight before sealer and primer was 70.10 g  now after sanding  76.21.
                                                                                                                                                                                         Juan

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2019, 01:51:38 PM »

         An update of how everything is going. I`m almost finished with the painting of the P-40 mini warbird. I still need to add the markings. up to this time I ordered some decals and I received them yesterday. I could not get some water transfer decals. I will still need to clear coat the plane since I used duplicolor to paint the plane. i will finish it with a coat of clear dope that I was able to find at my local Hobby shop. Ordering dope from the US is very expensive due to the hazmat fee. Here are a few pics.
                                                                                                                                                       Juan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2019, 05:04:33 AM »
Looking slick Juan !

  I couldn't find suitable water slide decals
for the FormFlite P-47.
   I have an excellent plastic model shop
nearby. Everything was too small. ( $20.00)
  I was allowed in the back of John Brodak's
factory and looked through every decal sheet
they have. Everything was too big.
  I bought a sheet that is for the 1/2A P-51
that is usable but large. ($8.00 )

  Juan,  I could measure the USAF Stars and Bars
and take a picture of the sheet.  If it would
work for you, I'll drop it in the mail.

   Eventually, I gave up and hand painted
the markings on the P-47.  It's not perfect
but it's OK.

Cheers! - K.
Keith Morgan

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2019, 05:15:54 AM »
Juan
I have the scan of my Scientific P-40 Warhawk decals. The wingspan of the kit is about 21".

PM you email address. I'll email them tonight after work. Find the pictures on CoxEngineForum under the same username if you want to see them before I send.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t11364-1960-scientific-p-40-profile-kit?highlight=Scientific+p+-40

You may be able to find waterslide paper and print the scan.

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2019, 07:32:02 PM »
Looking slick Juan !

  I couldn't find suitable water slide decals
for the FormFlite P-47.
   I have an excellent plastic model shop
nearby. Everything was too small. ( $20.00)
  I was allowed in the back of John Brodak's
factory and looked through every decal sheet
they have. Everything was too big.
  I bought a sheet that is for the 1/2A P-51
that is usable but large. ($8.00 )

  Juan,  I could measure the USAF Stars and Bars
and take a picture of the sheet.  If it would
work for you, I'll drop it in the mail.

   Eventually, I gave up and hand painted
the markings on the P-47.  It's not perfect
but it's OK.

Cheers! - K.

 Hello Keith
                      Thanks for the offer, I bought some eflite decals for the P-47 and P-51 and I`m going to use them.They are stick on not water tranfer but I will give them a try. Since I want the shark mouth to look like the one on the plans I`m going to risk it and give it a try to paint them.  I like to make sure the paint is dry and do it. 944_Jim is going to send me P-40 a decal scan.  Thanks again.
                                                                                                                                                                               Juan

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2019, 07:34:19 PM »
Juan
I have the scan of my Scientific P-40 Warhawk decals. The wingspan of the kit is about 21".

PM you email address. I'll email them tonight after work. Find the pictures on CoxEngineForum under the same username if you want to see them before I send.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t11364-1960-scientific-p-40-profile-kit?highlight=Scientific+p+-40

You may be able to find waterslide paper and print the scan.


Hello Jim
                    I sent you my email.Thanks for sending me the P-40 decal scan.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Juan

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2019, 08:19:15 PM »
            In the mean time I have been doing engine work. I decided to replace the die cast surestar with an aluminum crankcase. I replaced the crank with a diesel crank with a steel washer behind prop drive washer and while I was at it I sanded the top of the crankcase to have the cilinder exhaust ports facing fore and aft intake ports to the sides. I followed Ken Cook`s advice and changed the cracked grey backplate and eliminated the piston conrod play. I mounted the engine on my test stand to do some break in heat cycling. I used an empty bottle of latanoprost eye drops I get for glaucoma as a small gas tank for short runs and a small filter I bought from Pspec Dave Shadel. I take an rpm reading when the engine goes out of gas because I have not leaned the mixture yet. Running home brew 25% nitro castor oil fuel I have gotten 16,393 and 16,648 on the last two runs with a cox 5 x 3 prop.  Here are some pics.

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2019, 09:47:49 PM »
Juan,

I'll send the files in the morning. They are on a PC, not my phone.

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2019, 03:54:12 PM »

    Hello Jim
                         I got them thanks!  Here is an update on P-40, I have done the shark mouth and it took a while to do since I done it in sections. I painted the outline first and then the red part finishing with the black part. I used the decals I from the eflite UMX P-51 BL. It came with a pair of walkway decals that i cut in 1/8 inch strips and used them for the canopy frame. The only bad thing is that the decal is not flexible and I could not do the last portion of the canopy. I`m thinking of leaving it like that because trying to paint might lift the canopy frame decals. I think will ad some more graphics later. here are the pics.

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2019, 05:44:07 PM »
Man!  That is AWESOME!!!

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2019, 08:10:19 PM »
Awesome Juan!

Regarding your rear window frames...you might cheat and use black electrical tape. It is a "stick-on vinyl" that you could cut into a narrow strip. The narrow strip might be able to make that tough curve. Or use the wider strip to cut smaller curved segments for the back curves, and tie in the curves with the top and bottom "frames."
In the end you'll be clearing over all this stuff anyway, right?

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2019, 08:37:24 PM »

 Looks really great Juan! I'm curious though, why the silver instead of olive drab?
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A.
IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2019, 09:06:54 PM »
Hello Warbird
                              I can`t order dope in that color do to hazmat cost. That is why I use Duplicolor silver easy to get at pep boys. On a bigger model I can get away with using Rustoleum.
                                                                                                                                                      Juan

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2019, 10:53:58 AM »
Hello Guy`s
                        I`m almost finished,just need to do the ends of the leadouts. Final weight is 6.8 oz . I don`t know when I will be able to fly it since it has been windy and rainy. Here are some pics.

Offline goozgog

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2019, 03:18:32 PM »
Oh.  That is very VERY nice!

  It probably looks better than the
box art, or the Midwest prototype
or any version of this kit ever built.

   Thanks Juan. Yes. I am entertained !  y1

Cheers! - K.
Keith Morgan

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2019, 06:59:53 PM »
Hello Keith
                       I`m glad you like it. Your work is very entertaining too. I really liked the molded leading edges on your Fw 190. Great job!
                                                                                                                                                                               Juan

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Midwest Mini Warbirds
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2019, 12:08:31 PM »


            I had a problem with the engine drive plate in my .049 for my P-40 mini warbird when I went to a diesel crank. I tried using a prop and a screw to place the drive plate back and when I checked it it turned wobbly so I made this tool to install the drive plate using two pieces of 1/4 inch aluminum and two 3mm screws 45mm long and was able to install it square using the front of the crankcase to help with alignment.Here are pics.
                                                                                                                                                                       Juan


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